mustanger98
Member
My understanding is if you're not threatened in the gravest extreme and/or prepared to kill to survive, don't present your weapon. End of story. In case you haven't guessed, I ain't foolin' with "LTL" ammo.
A disabled person less than a mile from my home...
- Thread starter SomeKid
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Jamie C.
Member
Tell ya what... go ask any cop that keeps a shotgun for HD if he/she uses LTL ammo in it, and if not, why.
I'll bet anything you want that you don't find even ONE that does, and all the ones that don't will tell ya that the only reason they ever use the stuff to begin with is because it's what the department REQUIRES them to use, under a particular set of circumstances.
People seem to forget that they are neither L.E.O.s nor soldiers, and that they aren't governed by the requirements or constraints of those particular job descriptions.... so they end up making bone-headed mistakes.
Also, folks that've never been in a life or death situation tend to vastly over-estimate how much time they're apt to have to make little decisions like...oh, I dunno.... which type of ammo to use on the ******* that's currently trying to kill 'em...
Here's a little news-flash for all you rocket scientists out there: LOAD YOUR WEAPONS LIKE YOU'RE GOING TO WAR, AND MEAN IT WHEN YOU PULL THE TRIGGER!
...'Cause the other guy most certainly will.
Oh, and just to keep it on topic, it'd seem that the .32 that the disabled fellow used also falls into the "less than lethal" category. Lucky for him the crack-head decided to break off his attack.
Sermon over... We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion of scumbags getting their just desserts.
J.C.
I'll bet anything you want that you don't find even ONE that does, and all the ones that don't will tell ya that the only reason they ever use the stuff to begin with is because it's what the department REQUIRES them to use, under a particular set of circumstances.
People seem to forget that they are neither L.E.O.s nor soldiers, and that they aren't governed by the requirements or constraints of those particular job descriptions.... so they end up making bone-headed mistakes.
Also, folks that've never been in a life or death situation tend to vastly over-estimate how much time they're apt to have to make little decisions like...oh, I dunno.... which type of ammo to use on the ******* that's currently trying to kill 'em...
Here's a little news-flash for all you rocket scientists out there: LOAD YOUR WEAPONS LIKE YOU'RE GOING TO WAR, AND MEAN IT WHEN YOU PULL THE TRIGGER!
...'Cause the other guy most certainly will.
Oh, and just to keep it on topic, it'd seem that the .32 that the disabled fellow used also falls into the "less than lethal" category. Lucky for him the crack-head decided to break off his attack.
Sermon over... We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion of scumbags getting their just desserts.
J.C.
CajunsMisty
Member
Hi boys and girls. I've got a really bad back. Bad enough that the Federal Government, and the Commonwealth of Virginia call me "disabled" and "handicapped." I call myself a "cripple" or a "gimp." The tag with the wheelchair on it, that's on the back of my car is a "gimp tag."
What do you want me to do? Sit around and feel sorry for myself? Now help me down to the range, and lean me against the bench. I wanna shoot.
By the way. If you happen to be a bad guy, and you see an old, red-haired lady, hobbling down the street, ask yourself..."Is that the one with the Makarov?"
What do you want me to do? Sit around and feel sorry for myself? Now help me down to the range, and lean me against the bench. I wanna shoot.
By the way. If you happen to be a bad guy, and you see an old, red-haired lady, hobbling down the street, ask yourself..."Is that the one with the Makarov?"
gunsmith
member
being nice??! to the guy breaking into your house??
Someone with a club and or a tire iron means to kill or maim you.
The reason they do not have a gun is if they are caught
with one while committing a crime then they get more time.
Try an experiment, give yourself a very light tap in the noggin
with a tire iron, now imagine a criminal swinging real hard with the tire iron...
I co-operated ...once... with a home invasion robbery (I was in NYC and unarmed) they stabbed me after tying me up, they laughed as they stabbed me in the back while my hands were tied up.
Please don't assume the guy breaking into your house has the same "live and let live" mindset you have.
It's an indication of your humanity and your thoughfullness and your kindness
that you would rather take the fight out of him then kill him.
You have a responsibillity to your self and your family to protect the lives in your household
Someone with a club and or a tire iron means to kill or maim you.
The reason they do not have a gun is if they are caught
with one while committing a crime then they get more time.
Try an experiment, give yourself a very light tap in the noggin
with a tire iron, now imagine a criminal swinging real hard with the tire iron...
I co-operated ...once... with a home invasion robbery (I was in NYC and unarmed) they stabbed me after tying me up, they laughed as they stabbed me in the back while my hands were tied up.
Please don't assume the guy breaking into your house has the same "live and let live" mindset you have.
It's an indication of your humanity and your thoughfullness and your kindness
that you would rather take the fight out of him then kill him.
You have a responsibillity to your self and your family to protect the lives in your household
Be carefule with "Less than Lethal" rounds
Many angencies now refer to them as "Less Lethal" because if you happen to use them at shorter ranges they are still lethal. Our rubber stingballs have a minimum range of 5 yards and the rubber fin stabilized is 15 yards. At ranges shorter than those the round is considered lethal. In a home invasion scenario the LTL may actually still be deadly.
Many angencies now refer to them as "Less Lethal" because if you happen to use them at shorter ranges they are still lethal. Our rubber stingballs have a minimum range of 5 yards and the rubber fin stabilized is 15 yards. At ranges shorter than those the round is considered lethal. In a home invasion scenario the LTL may actually still be deadly.
omnivore75
Member
I earnestly hope that I never have to shoot anyone for any reason with any kind of round. As you said to each his own. It makes me feel better and thats good enough for me personally. I wish the rights belonged to victims instead of slimeballs like it used to be. Back in the old days if a man was breaking in your house his rear end was as good as paid for. You could just plug him and then do a jig around the corpse, and if it were up to me it still would be that way and no one would need to use a LTL lethal round anytime. And to keep the record straight, just because cops use LTL rounds does not mean they are the only people on the face of the earth with the right or knowhow to use them. Anyone can make a goofball mistake (see video of DEA agent shooting himself in the foot with his issue Glock while teaching a gun safety lecture to a room full of young students. He said on a news interview I saw the other day that he was justified in using the Loaded Glock because as an agent he must always be armed, but if so he should have kept his duty weapon in it's holster and used another empty gun or made sure his own gun was clear before he went in the class to do a demonstration with it, but people make mistakes.)
omnivore75
Member
O and that reminds me. I meant to mention that I have the rounds that are like a "bean bag". I saw the rubber projectiles and those definitely look like they could do serious damage and I have no doubt that the bag rounds could cause serious injury at close range but nothing like the large rubber or "hornets nest" multiple rubber projectiles. Seems to me like I saw Johnny Knoxvilles dumb rear end on something, I don't know if it was on MTV or that Jackass movie or what, and he let one of the LTL round manufaturer reps (I think) shoot him in the lower abdomen with a bag round and it put him down and left a major whelk and blood bruise on him. NOT a passtime I would advise.
Jamie C.
Member
In TN, if a person forces entry into your house, he is, as you say, "Bought and Paid For".
Our laws here changed, back about 10 years ago or so, and there was quite a squabble, with many people saying that the changes amounted to the state allowing murder. Because of all the squabbling, there was the requirement added that the person had to force entry into your home. They don't even have to be armed, since the presumes that anyone forcing their way into your home intends you death or serious bodily harm.
So, where you say "The simple fact is it reduces my liability."
I know for a fact that the LTL rounds only INCREASE your liability, and the chance that you'll be hurt or killed by an intruder.
And yes, I live in Tennessee... 'bout 20-25 minutes from Ft. Cambell and gate 4.
And I worked for the local S.O. during the time those laws, and the domestic violence laws, were changed.
But don't take my word for it.... look the laws up. It's easy enough to do, here on the internet.
J.C.
CajunBass
Member
Say SomeKid. You must have gone to school with my youngest son. He was always coming home from school with stories about how "SomeKid" did this, or "SomeKid" did that.
Of course, we figurd out about the second time that he was really "SomeKid."
Of course, we figurd out about the second time that he was really "SomeKid."
Stand_Watie
Member
I've seen those things and they're scary. Any weapon that leaves large whelks I'm keeping away from
Jamie C.
Member
Yeah, it's amazing how many people don't know the difference between a "welk" and a "welt"... or the difference between a "less than lethal" munition and surviving a lethal encounter...
But then, I'm no expert, even for having survived the latter... ( Don't encounter many giant snails, here in Tennessee. )
J.C.
But then, I'm no expert, even for having survived the latter... ( Don't encounter many giant snails, here in Tennessee. )
J.C.
omnivore75
Member
Welk, welt, whatever. I could care less. You got the point. I don't know about the law changing I just know that two of our local SCPD Deouties here told me that someone had to be inside of your home forcibly and trying to harm you or a family member before deadly force is justified. Either way the argument is pointless. We have already agreed that "to each his own" is they way of things. I'm am sure that if everyone on this forum were to get together and compare their types of ammunition, weapons, gear, tactics and underwear preference we would see all kinds of startling difference of opinion because we all have our weapons and survival gear and bookshelves or whatever else the way we want and personally feel comfortable with and besides the most important thing is to practice and be proficient with your weapon/weapons anyway, the type is secondary, so in an effort to keep this thread from becoming an eight page debate on the merits or problems of LTL rounds or the proper or improper word for a red mark on a persons body from being struck with an object which actually has no end and no one cares about anyway, I will sincerely say thank everyone for their replies and I definitely do appreciate all comments because there is always something to learn from others, and cease any further posts to the thread. Thanks.
Crosshair
Member
I read Fark.com and I try and submit pro-gun articles whenever possible, mine didn't get greenlit, but I think you would like the title I came up with.
/
Disabled man wakes up and finds burglar in his house. Man applies .32-caliber burglar repellent 4 times and burglar disappears immediately
/
CrazyIrishman
Member
I'm disabled myself with arthritis in both hips and lower back. I have to use a wheelchair quite a bit, and YES,I have been called a crip,gimp, etc. My friends who I have known all my life(almost 50 years) are more offended than I am over what some people say.
Where I live, there was a B&E last night on the same floor as I am (1st floor)but at the other side of the building. This guy just had vertebrae removal from his neck and has lost parts of both legs from diabetes. He saw the part of one leg leaving his window as he was waking up.
We aren't supposed to have weapons here(yeah,right).Hopefully, MR. Perp won't visit me only to be disappointed!
I believe in the old adage "better to be judged by twelve than carried by six"!
Where I live, there was a B&E last night on the same floor as I am (1st floor)but at the other side of the building. This guy just had vertebrae removal from his neck and has lost parts of both legs from diabetes. He saw the part of one leg leaving his window as he was waking up.
We aren't supposed to have weapons here(yeah,right).Hopefully, MR. Perp won't visit me only to be disappointed!
I believe in the old adage "better to be judged by twelve than carried by six"!
Jamie C.
Member
Again, do a little research and look it up yourself.
Even a cursory search of your local news station's websites will turn up the fact that no home owner in TN has been prosecuted for shooting an actual home invader, in the last 10 years or so. Just ask Charlie Chase.
( Or better yet, ask his idiot kid. )
Anyway.... yes, it's your choice.
I'm just trying to make sure you make an informed choice, not one based on hearsay, rumor, or "common knowledge". ( This last usually comes closer to "urban myth" than actual fact. )
J.C.
Zen21Tao
Member
How about a “Crip”? (Not meant offensively, just a stab at this PC nonsense)
Disabled..
who is able..and who is disabled?
My dear father in law, sweet man, rolled a jeep ,WWII (hauling liquor for an officer), he insists on parking in the handicap space and using the electric card at the walmart...
He lives alone on 28 acres in northern minnesota, when we visit, he's pull'n stumps, drag'n equipment, the guy can lift his rideing mower to check the blade.
My turn... I'm 50, I spent 27 years assisting surgeons, bending over patients from the opposite side of the surgeon, it would have been helpful to my back if I could have leaned on the patients to take the load off my spine, but there would be around 10,000 of you good people with bruises on your body where I leaned on you.
I had spine surgery this last Feb. ( I knew every one in the room, they all got to see me buck naked, one of my friends even put a foley in me, I told all in the room I had tanned, so as not to blind them with my white butt when they turned me over), the surgery went OK, I was told I would be off work 6 weeks ( I'm self employed, no disablity, no money..), Well! my surgeon said my spine is still unstable and not to think of any work for five months and then I can never bend over (assist in surgery) again.
So I guess I'm disabled.
Yesterday I was tinkering in the garage when a suv stopped in front of the house, several young kids, early 20's, got out and one walked up to me and said they were offering to clean a section of carpet..for free,they would offer to come in to the house to 'LOOK' at the carpet and come back later with cleaning equipment, he handed me a flyer that said "we clean carpet", there was no business name or phone number, they said they were new and did not yet have a name or Ph#, I said "no thanks" and they went next door to push their scam, I quickly stepped inside, placed my holstered P99 in my waistband and pulled my shirt over it, I went out with pen and paper to write down their plate info...they had no plates!, I called 911, as I did the guys drove off, I was impressed, the police chief arrived in an unmarked in less than 3 min., the chief agreed with me that these guys were "cleaners", and that they would return later to steal the valuble items they saw while "checking the carpet".
When I took the CCW class, they told me it is not a justified shooting if you are twenty feet or more from the threat, because you can run..that no longer applies to me, I can't run, for the first time I was scared.. the three guys could have run up to me, dragged me into the garage....
I guess I am going to have to carry more often.
Kevin
who is able..and who is disabled?
My dear father in law, sweet man, rolled a jeep ,WWII (hauling liquor for an officer), he insists on parking in the handicap space and using the electric card at the walmart...
He lives alone on 28 acres in northern minnesota, when we visit, he's pull'n stumps, drag'n equipment, the guy can lift his rideing mower to check the blade.
My turn... I'm 50, I spent 27 years assisting surgeons, bending over patients from the opposite side of the surgeon, it would have been helpful to my back if I could have leaned on the patients to take the load off my spine, but there would be around 10,000 of you good people with bruises on your body where I leaned on you.
I had spine surgery this last Feb. ( I knew every one in the room, they all got to see me buck naked, one of my friends even put a foley in me, I told all in the room I had tanned, so as not to blind them with my white butt when they turned me over), the surgery went OK, I was told I would be off work 6 weeks ( I'm self employed, no disablity, no money..), Well! my surgeon said my spine is still unstable and not to think of any work for five months and then I can never bend over (assist in surgery) again.
So I guess I'm disabled.
Yesterday I was tinkering in the garage when a suv stopped in front of the house, several young kids, early 20's, got out and one walked up to me and said they were offering to clean a section of carpet..for free,they would offer to come in to the house to 'LOOK' at the carpet and come back later with cleaning equipment, he handed me a flyer that said "we clean carpet", there was no business name or phone number, they said they were new and did not yet have a name or Ph#, I said "no thanks" and they went next door to push their scam, I quickly stepped inside, placed my holstered P99 in my waistband and pulled my shirt over it, I went out with pen and paper to write down their plate info...they had no plates!, I called 911, as I did the guys drove off, I was impressed, the police chief arrived in an unmarked in less than 3 min., the chief agreed with me that these guys were "cleaners", and that they would return later to steal the valuble items they saw while "checking the carpet".
When I took the CCW class, they told me it is not a justified shooting if you are twenty feet or more from the threat, because you can run..that no longer applies to me, I can't run, for the first time I was scared.. the three guys could have run up to me, dragged me into the garage....
I guess I am going to have to carry more often.
Kevin
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