A disturbance in the force... I need a new gun, but which? Help me please.

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bluejeans

bluejeans

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Background:
I live all summer in the woods for my work and hike thousands of miles without trails carrying my instruments.
For years I have been carrying a s&w model 66 .357. Love the pistol BUT...

issue #1. I've been getting lower back pain the last couple summers due to the unbalance weight of it always on my right hip.

Issue #2. The predators are changing. For the past decades it has been mostly an occasional dog, black bear, moose or cougar. Now the problem is wolves, grizzlies and moose. In the average summer I would see a couple hundred elk, couple hundred deer, one moose, maybe two bears and a cougar only once ever 2-3 years. This last summer I saw maybe 5 elk, 20 deer, 20 moose, 30 bears and 100 wolves. Some days in the snow hearing wolves all around me I started carrying my m&p 40 just to have more shots if it was a pack situation.

So what do I need? (And don't you dare say "glock" , AR-15 or anything Taurus! :)

I have a definite preference for a revolver due to reliability requirements in all weather/temperatures/dirt-n-sticks.
I've been looking into the smith 329pd ( 26 ounce 44 mag) and the 386 (18.5 ounce, 7 shot .357 mag) I know I could get even lighter but don't want to sacrifice firepower by going to a 5 shot or a .38. The other one in consideration could be a 10mm auto which is fine for power but doesn't help at all with the weight. If it wasn't for weight and needing to walk with my hands free I'd for sure carry my winchester 44 mag carbine but alas...

Please chime in with your suggestions and council.. whether about the ones I mentioned or if there's a good option that I have passed over.
Thanks
 
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S&W Model 327PD. You will be looking at the second hand market though. 8 shot N frame, 4inch barrel and scandium frame. The Model 386 Nightguard is also discontinued.
 
I think you're looking at .44 magnum or a 10mm and they're seldom light weight.

Get a rig that distributes the weight differently.
 
I would first try a new holster location. You can always rotate your holster to a cross body draw back and forth to not isolate the weight on one side all the time (I know, people hate cross body, but for this situation, I think it can help the back issues and balance the load). Or look into a chest holster, something like a "hunter" or "tanker" style. But not sure how that would work since you have instruments you carry for work.

Not sure where you are getting your weight figures from, but here is what I found:
-S&W 386NG: 24 oz
-S&W 327: 21 oz (8 shot, fat little revolver)

But, if you decide to go 10mm:
-Glock 29: 26 oz (I know, I don't like Glock either but for a small 10mm, options are slim)
-Glock 20: 30 oz (39 loaded)
-EAA Witness fullsize poly: 31 oz
-EAA Witness fullsize steel: 33 oz
-EAA Witness compact poly: 28 oz
-EAA Witness compact steel: 30 oz

So unless you want the capacity of a 10mm semiauto, I'd go scandium framed Smith revolver. I think the semi autos have a better shape for carrying all day, but that is an opinion. I'd really look into the S&w 327 with its fat little body and short barrel. 8 shots of .357 is alot of firepower
 
The differences in the 386 is the cylinders. The night guard uses a stainless whereas the PD has titanium. I got my info here.. http://www.adjunct.diodon349.com/attack_on_usa/model_386_revolver__hiviz.htm

Good call both of you with the 327... I had glanced at it but didn't catch that it was an 8-shot.. I like the sound of 8 357 even better than 6 44's.
Jeepercreeper, thanks for bringing up the eaa witness. pCould be a good option. A gun is a tool and if a 10mm is the right tool then I can give up my pride.
 
As for the rig, I can't do shoulder holsters or chest rig due to my work tools. Anywhere on the belt is fine. I could switch to a cross draw but I would have to rearrange my other gear around it for it to fit so while I might move it once a month I would never alternate daily/weekly so I'm not sure if that's a long term solution.
 
C0untZer0 said:
I think you're looking at .44 magnum or a 10mm and they're seldom light weight.

Get a rig that distributes the weight differently.
Click to expand...
Yes, maybe a shoulder holster.

Don't go to light weight on the gun, least it becomes to hard to shoot well.

Deaf
 
At the risk of sounding like an idiot (and that happens to me sometimes!:neener:) maybe carry something on the other side to balance the weight? A couple speed loaders, a FAK, survival gear and/or a multitool? I don't know how light you could go on a gun that still meets your needs.

As for guns a 29 Mountain Revolver in .44 Mag might fit the bill. Not a lot of fun to shoot with full house mags but for animal defense it would be potent.
 
If it were me I would probably revisit the idea of going to a shoulder holster and finding a way to redistribute the weight of all your other equipment that you have to carry. My choice in a handgun would most likely be a Glock 29 given the natural hazards that you've described.
 
Learn to shoot, modify and get used to a Glock 10mm. 15+1 rounds in the 20, or 19 rounds with extended magazines. Heck you could put a 9x25 barrel in it. That will bring the Grizzlies.

Or pack a rifle. How are you packing your equipment?
 
Phaedrus/69 said:
At the risk of sounding like an idiot (and that happens to me sometimes!:neener:) maybe carry something on the other side to balance the weight? A couple speed loaders, a FAK, survival gear and/or a multitool? I don't know how light you could go on a gun that still meets your needs.

As for guns a 29 Mountain Revolver in .44 Mag might fit the bill. Not a lot of fun to shoot with full house mags but for animal defense it would be potent.
Click to expand...
The answer is simple - you need a firearm on each side. :D Keep your 66 for .357 sized varments and grab a .44 or .45 (I like Rugers) for the larger varments. Brilliant!
 
If moose and griz are involved I'd ditch the notion of a .357 and step up to a 44 mag or a 10 mm. Even an old S&W 657 in 41 mag would be a good choice.

If you are looking at a 44, I'd consider a 629 Mountain gun. The barrel is tapered to help keep the weight down, and being made of stainless steel will be beneficial in wet hiking conditions.

In 10mm, there are a few choices from EAA/Tanfoglio that might fit your needs. I know you said no GLOCKS, but honestly, if it were me, doing your job, I'd look at the new GLOCK Hunter in 10mm. It's a plastic gun so it will be relatively light, you have more shots which could be crucial when dealing with wolves, it is really the minimum power level and bore size you want if dealing with big thick skinned critters, and since you don't care about GLOCKS much, you won't care if it takes a beating.

IMO, the ultra light 44's are not a good answer to any problem. Recoil can be so harsh on them that they do more harm than good.

This is actually the first time I ever recommended a GLOCK for anything. Personally, I don't like them, but they do tend to work, and the 10mm hunter seems to fit the hole you are trying to fill. I do apologize for suggesting something you said you don't want, because I hate when folks do that. They just seem to have a gun to fit your need.

Are you a stand exam contractor by any chance? It seems to match the job description you gave.
 
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Has a doctor told you that the pain you are experiencing is due to the weight of your handgun? There may be something else going on. I don't know how old you are, but stuff happens as we age...

If I were really expecting to confront a grizzly, I would be packing something other than a handgun. Rather than looking for a different revolver, I'd be looking for another job.
 
A 10MM Glock, either the full size 20SF or compact 29SF. Either one of those would fit the bill, even though you said don't say Glock :).

Also as some have mentioned changing holster locations or better distributing the weight might be the cheapest solution. If you do that carry hard cast 158s, or maybe even hard cast 180s if you sights will adjust that low and the ammunition will fit in the cylinder of your Model 66.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
 
Rather than looking for a different revolver, I'd be looking for another job.
Click to expand...

While this is certainly a solution, there are some of us out there that derive much joy out of life by voluntarily putting ourselves out there with the critters, and being out in the woods.

Personally, I'd rather live with the risky situations I'm put into for my career in the woods, try to be prepared for negative situations, do my best to avoid them, and risk death to do what I love, rather than give up a daily activity that makes my life worth living just to be safe.

I'm not going to speak for the OP certainly, but I'd wager he feels similarly. I could be wrong.

Hey bluejeans, I hike in bear country fairly often. Have you tried suspenders out? I have successfully carried a 5 inch 460 mag around without pain by utilizing them. Though, not for several days straight.
 
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Actually, I think self-diagnosis is more dangerous than a grizzly; that was the point I was trying to get across.
 
One of the more picturesque variants of the "excuse for getting a new toy" deal. Around age 5 it's still "I just want it" then goes to "You know Dad, it's very educational too". I love the man of the forest thing and I'll go for the Ruger Blackhawk with a short barrel in a caliber with a 4 in it carried close to centerline to address the bad back gag. Please come back and tell us how it all works out.
 
460Kodiak said:
Are you a stand exam contractor by any chance? It seems to match the job description you gave.
Click to expand...

Bingo! Though these days its all private timber land cruising.

I like my job ( as far as jobs go..) I grew up hiking a lot in the wilderness and am quite comfortable out in the hills. In all those years I've only had to defend myself from a couple of rattlesnakes and one mountain lion. Have had many run ins with cantankerous moose but the nice thing is that moose can't climb trees. I've had altercations with bears but that doesn't bother me much. ( even had one licking the salt out of my hair one night at camp.)
A good measure of awareness in the woods is better than sheer firepower IMO and I like to think that I do..

Answering some questions..
I carry approx 10 lbs of equipment on a surveyor's vest and between 2-3 gallons of water in the back. My dad used to carry his 41 mag in a vest pocket but I much prefer to keep the gun on my body as there are times I would drop the vest... Especially if I was running from a charging moose or climbing a tree.

No, a doctor hasn't diagnosed the back problem but when I hike without the pistol for a couple of days the knot in my back will go away..

So far I'm leaning to the 327 or the 386... With outside chance of a 10mm block but its seeming that the 329pd would only be good for the moose/griz which haven't been a problem and too heavy of recoil to allow for followup shot on cougars or wolves which a more likely to be the issue.
 
bluejeans said:
Bingo! Though these days its all private timber land cruising.

I like my job ( as far as jobs go..) I grew up hiking a lot in the wilderness and am quite comfortable out in the hills. In all those years I've only had to defend myself from a couple of rattlesnakes and one mountain lion. Have had many run ins with cantankerous moose but the nice thing is that moose can't climb trees. I've had altercations with bears but that doesn't bother me much. ( even had one licking the salt out of my hair one night at camp.)
A good measure of awareness in the woods is better than sheer firepower IMO and I like to think that I do..

Answering some questions..
I carry approx 10 lbs of equipment on a surveyor's vest and between 2-3 gallons of water in the back. My dad used to carry his 41 mag in a vest pocket but I much prefer to keep the gun on my body as there are times I would drop the vest... Especially if I was running from a charging moose or climbing a tree.

No, a doctor hasn't diagnosed the back problem but when I hike without the pistol for a couple of days the knot in my back will go away..

So far I'm leaning to the 327 or the 386... With outside chance of a 10mm block but its seeming that the 329pd would only be good for the moose/griz which haven't been a problem and too heavy of recoil to allow for followup shot on cougars or wolves which a more likely to be the issue.
Click to expand...

A bear licking your head..... nice man. That'll widen your eyes a bit I imagine.

That's a good point about being able to drop your vest and run, and wanting to keep the gun attached to you, and not the vest. I remember the very first summer I was marking timber. I was marking a timber sale boundary tree, minding my own business while some domestic cattle were grazing in the grassy draw I was in. Then I heard a pounding noise, and I thought "What the heck is that?" When I turned to look, it was a 800-1000 lb domestic bull charging straight at me. I have never dropped my vest and gear so fast. I ran up a hill and managed to get on a rock I knew his hooves would be rather slippery on. Then I chucked stones at him until he got irritated enough to leave. As I came down and started gathering up my gear I saw him mounting his ladies.

I guess he saw me as competition. So either it's a huge compliment to my physique and virility, or a tremendous insult that I'm so ugly I look like a bull.

Then his 400 lb offspring decided to learn from dad's example, and chased me right back up the rock. It was an interesting day. I was not armed, as I have never been allowed to carry while working. There have been a few times though where I wished I had.

There are lots of lions by me, I've been charged by whitetail deer in the rut on two occasions, been charged by a coyote, nearly ran over by panicked elk and deer both, looked down to see a rattle snake close to where I was crouching, almost stepped on a skunk, and had one belligerent land owner ride up to me on a lawn mower with a shotgun in hand. I had to testify on that last one. What I don't have though is bear or wolves.

A stand exam contractor's remains were found pretty well eaten in the Bridger Teton NF recently. Evidence points to bears. It happens.....

So, I wish you luck in your search for a replacement gun. Do you carry bear spray as well? A friend of mine had to spray a lion about two years ago. I wonder how that stuff works on moose.
 
460kodiac, sound like you've got I nice collection of stories as well.. Love that one of the bull.

I used to carry bear spray.. Until a friend was carrying it, lost the cap and then accidentally discharged it inside the cab of our pickup. :) never got to try it on a bear.

I like what was said a couple of posts back about wearing close to the centerline of the back... I'll have to see if I can rearrange stuff in the back of my vest to accommodate whatever gun I end up with and maybe a custom holster.
 
Why are there so many suggestions for a 10mm, 454 Casull and 44 Magnum? The OP is more concerned with having enough ammo to repel a Wolf-pack attack, not a Dinosaur.

I think the M386 with a speedloader or 2 will be a good choice plus I would move the carry position. Simply Rugged has a system for moving the gun to across your chest so it's easy to get to but centered, their Chesty Puller Strap system. I think that might help you.
http://www.simplyrugged.com/ecommerce/ACCESSORIES.cfm?cat_id=672
http://www.simplyrugged.com/ecommerce/Chesty-Puller-Conversion-System.cfm?item_id=160&parent=672
 
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