A few thoughts on posting in ST&T

[Jeff White]

There are three sub forums at THR that are different than the rest of the board. Legal, Strategies, Tactics and Training and Activism are different and they are moderated differently. What makes these forums different is that they deal with serious subjects. That’s why we don’t allow the normal shooters sitting around after a day at the range BS session type posts.

Activism is for discussion of ways to promote RKBA. That’s why political rants aren’t permitted there.

At one time you had to be a registered member to even see the ST&T forum. That was changed many years ago. Now anyone can surf in and read ST&T. Google bots read it and threads and posts show up in search results. This forum and the legal forum are moderated with that fact in mind. The last thing any of us want is for someone to do something stupid and/or illegal based on something they read here.

There are very few correct answers to the subjects we discuss here. There is no one size fits all answer to questions about auto v revolver, caliber, how many reloads to carry. But for some reason those are the most contentious topics here. There are a lot of members who are convinced that their personal choice is the only correct one. I suppose that’s normal. But we try not to be hardware focused here. This forum is more about the software and how to use what you have with you to solve the problem.

I’ve been moderating these forums since the 1990s. I’ve moderated on the old Tactical Forums and on Lightfighter as well as THR. One thing I’ve learned is that tone and inflection are hard to express in the format we use. It’s very easy to misread a post and think you’re being called out.

A different opinion is not being called out. As I said there are very few correct answers here. No one wins a discussion here in ST&T. There are no prizes. Keep an open mind. I can’t remember the number of times I’ve discovered that something I “knew to be true” wasn’t or that it wasn’t true all of the time. The topics we discuss here are constantly evolving. We need to be open to new information. And we especially need to recognize that there is no answer that is correct for everybody in every situation to the question of auto or revolver, sub compact or full size, caliber or how many reloads to carry. There are only opinions on those subjects and for every opinion expressed there is a situation where that won’t be the right answer.

We don’t ban a lot of members here. Lately some of the discussions have gotten heated enough that they could result in bans if they were left to run. We don’t want to ban threads on those topics as there is always something to learn. Let’s not get so personally invested in those topics. “Winning the thread” isn’t worth it.

I’ve got nothing to prove here and neither does anyone else. Let’s just have civil and productive discussions.

 

[Kleanbore]

Beautifully put, Jeff.

 

[jmorris]

But for some reason those are the most contentious topics here. There are a lot of members who are convinced that their personal choice is the only correct one.

You followed the “But for some reason…” with the reason. Few libertarians around anymore, seems like now there are only two ways to go about things for most people, my way or the wrong way. Religion, Politics, any opinion based topic is always a good place for disagreement.

 

[TomJ]

I've benefited greatly from this forum as I've learned from other members. It's unfortunate when threads get shut down because they're getting heated, as we may be losing useful information. It's a good idea to remember that when being critical of someone else's choices there's most likely quite a bit you don't understand about their situation, which may account for a choice other than yours. Asking questions clarifying things or offering suggestions without criticizing will be much more productive than being critical or sarcastic.

 

[Father Goose]

I have changed my thinking greatly over the years! In general, I don't act when angry and honestly, since giving up sugar, I find I have such a calm persona now, not much gets me excited. Even a grown man screaming at my face doesn't do it anymore.

I am such a different person now than I was 20 years ago. Typically very calm, much more thoughtful, and I only ban people for direct threats. I seen bans as "inherently hostile."

I also carry a revolver most days......never thought I'd do that 20 years ago!

 

[Tirod]

A lot of what was considered proper form for precision shooting on a target range is now seen as less than knowledgeable of the human anatomy and almost laughable. When more practical forms of shooting in conflict - especially handguns - came to the scene, there were two camps, Isoceles and Weaver, and that conversation was largely limited to posted articles in magazines.

Wow did we miss out on not having the internet yet.

Along with that were the tacticians of the day, their camps, ranges, articles, and books. As we progressed to the era of instant electronic communications, tho, what didn't get moved or translated were all the print media sources most knowledgeable and experienced shooters had referred to in their slowly growing library. How many now have read Nonte's Combat Handguns, or, The Book of the Rifle by Carmichael? I bet more have read They Shoot Canoes Don't They? by Mcmanus.

A newer generation has arrived who didn't engage in reading print media, or books, both have suffered and will do worse in the future. A lot of knowledge handed down father to son is lost - no father - vets to family members - no vets, it's dropped from 1 in 10 to 1 in 100. And the use of social media with limited input added to that makes a case that young men with no adult male to help shape their character are simply acting like young bucks in the wild jousting to see who is the alpha. It's become fight club under the bleachers rather than the structured hierarchy we had that kept the peace.

And that is a planned and desired goal of our enemies.

It's no surprise that discussions aren't as moderate as they should be. More posters arrive annually who never were exposed to certain ethics and principals of conversation that required politeness, reserve, and presenting facts - not feelz. As a result I have seen forums become log in only, vetted membership, even paid only to prevent the extremes we now see. It's a short term solution and leads to diminishing numbers of members unless there is some measure of attracting the site as a destination goal - like, a gun store on the side street, not Main Street, yet competing with all the mass merchandisers. It can be done.

It also means dealing with more trolls, who just don't know they are, and have no role model that is any better. Working auto parts retail, I witnessed this first hand - car guys got along, some guys were only there to force their way into a higher social standing by any means available. It's reflected in auto forums now, too. "You want 4WD, sell your truck and buy what you need. Modding it is stupid." Status by credit card, which we see here more than ever.

It's going to be frustrating for awhile as this surge of untrained and selfish pass thru the generations. It takes patience, and continuing to contribute, especially literate older members who are really needed to hand down what they learned and why. Some of us aren't giving up. We may post, and leave the thread, as the sidelining and attacks in response are there to damage the thread and create division. Not engaging them is a better course of action, leaving the rude responses as evidence of the poster. I'm of the mind it should be left to stand with pointed references of what not to do. I've seen another forum delete the entire thread - leaving others to wonder what the problem was. That poster just moved into another forum repeating his previous concepts. So far, it's being handled well.

Bans can be handled on a tiered basis. Similar to workplace rules, with escalating verbal warnings, then being locked out of a thread, locked out of a subforum, either by escalating the number of days with repeat offenses, up to an including forum wide. I have seen it work - and abused - for the most part a well grounded policy and good moderation are appreciated by most of the members. And it expresses the policy in a way that newer members understand. NO bans at all won't work, any more than not imposing punishment for a toddler climbing up the cabinet to raid the cookie jar. Same reason - we are dealing with a lot more feral humans who were not properly raised and disciplined at home. Now they post with no more thought for others or their safety just like when they were very young.

It's not our job to raise them, but it is our job to prevent them from being selfish at our expense. We cannot comply our way out of their tyranny.

 

[The Night Rider]

I've seen other forums that have sub forums that are only visible to members. It's mostly on forums that are owned by VirtualScope their software is a different