a great economical self defense carbine

[O.S.O.K.]

I am talking about the Kel-Tec Sub-2000.

I have one that is en-route to my dealer.

It's the Glock 17 mag compatible model in 9mm of course. This is the only model that has over 20 round mags available - the 33 round Glock factory mags to be specific. The Beretta models can take the 20 round Beretta mags.

At $309 plus shipping, it is very economical to purchase. 9mm is still quite reasonably priced too, so it's economical to shoot. The reveiws on this rifle are all very positive with the only negatives being a stiff trigger and some don't like the sights. I happen to really like aperture sights, so that's a plus for me.

Accuracy is very good for this type of rifle (2" 100 yard groups being acheived with 3-4" being easy to get). Velocity for a 115 grain bullet is 1300 fps at the muzzle. It's not picky about the ammo, cycling fmj and hollowpoints equally well. If you want more power, it will safely shoot +P and +P+ ammo too.

And the kicker is that this baby folds to 16", so it'll fit in my jeep's little cargo well in the back - along with several 33 round mags and a box of ammo. This feature also allows cleaning from the breach without dissasembly.

This little carbine would be nice to have should one find one's self in the postition to need it.

Here is a pic of this carbine:

Ugly? Yes, definately! But very functional.

 

[357fan]

I think that might end up being my next purchase. I looked for one a a few gun shows in the area, but never found one. I might just break down and have my FFl order me one.

 

[El Tejon]

Does it run?

Has anyone here taken it through a class to see how these things hold up?

 

[ThomasT]

I think your gonna like that gun. I have a Marlin 9mm Camp Carbine and love it. This is my second one. I won't sell this one.

I was shooting my Marlin 357 today. Thats a fine rifle also. My only regret is trying to find a used one. I should have bought a new one years ago and been shooting all along.

 

[O.S.O.K.]

For reviews and more information

check this out:

http://www.mouseguns.com/sub2000/sub2000.htm

Good stuff.

This link is listed if you follow the YouTube videos link on that site above, but I thought I would highlight it as I found it entertaining to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRavtUA9gMs

Ratshooter, I also have one of the Marlin 94 CS leverguns. It is an awsome levergun and very versitile.

I bought the Sub-2000 specifically for the tag-along role in my jeep.

 

[Skofnung]

If they made one in .45 ACP that took Glock 21 magazines, and made it reliable, I would buy one.

 

[ThomasT]

Thanks O.S.O.K. Thanks for posting the you tube link. That sub 2000 shot some nice groups. There are guns shows this weekend and next. I will have to see if any Kel-Tecs are there.

We also shot my buddies Rossi 357 today. He just got it a week ago. I didn't feed very well so i took it apart and did some work on it. The feed rails were too tight. Repaired that and did a polish job and some spring work. It feeds very smoothlly now. Darn thing shoots good also. I had one of these several years ago. It wouldn't shoot lead bullets. They tumbled. This gun shot lead better than jacketed.

I like pistol caliber guns. Brass is cheap. They're easy on a can of powder and fun to shoot. What is there not to like.

 

[O.S.O.K.]

Indeed

There is a lot to like about pistol caliber carbines - all of them.

Skofnung - there is an upper that goes on your Glock - I can't remember the name of the outfit A...something. But it's a slick deal and of good quality from what I've read. The first ones were for 1911's only - you just use your pistol's lower which slides onto the carbine upper and viola' you've got a pistol caliber carbine. They used to be $300 ish - now probably $400 ish.

That'd probably be the way to go.

The Beretta Storm is also made in 45 ACP but I don't know what kind of mags it takes...

 

[O.S.O.K.]

dupe post -

 

[Float Pilot]

For inexpensive, I found an older Rossi M-92 carbne in 357 mag for $130 at a pawn shop. It has never been fired. Add a couple hundred bucks worth of ammo and you have a pretty relieble little 10 shot carbine for all sorts of uses. A federal 125 grain hollow point will almost break 2,400 fps. The heavier 158 and 180 grain loads will do 1,700 or 1,800 with no problem.

 

[O.S.O.K.]

Wow

You stole that rifle - these go for close to $400 now - at least the older ones without the "wing" safety on the bolt...

Are you sure about that velocity for 125 grains? The other velocities are for sure - right out of the load books but I didn't think you could get 2400 from a 125 grain bullet...?

 

[ThomasT]

Float Pilot thats the best deal i've heard of in a while. You want to make a quick $50.00?

My Rossi shooting a 158gr Winchester with 17.5grs of 296 would get a chonoed speed of 1860 fps. I shot one coyote with it and nearly cut it in half length ways. The Speer manual shows close to 2300fps from an 18.5" barrel for a 125gr bullet. Close to 2400 might be possible but i don't push mine that hard anymore. I like the Remington 160 JSP bullets pushed to about 1600 fps. They hold up much better at that speed.

Now i load 158gr lead with 6.6grs of unique in a 357 case. Don't know the speed from the rifle but they get around 110fps from a 6" revolver. Those are still a little hot for rabbits but would be OK for deer. Another load i was shooting today was 4.5 grs of 231 with a Lee tumble lube 158 SWC. that would be a good small game load.

 

[O.S.O.K.]

well

sounds like he is accurate with the 2,400 fps for a 20" rifle. That would cause the pistol bullet to fragment I'm sure - on game that is.

I had a Rossi 92SRC .357 Mag (no saddle ring but that was the designation stamped on the rifle) and it too was a fine shooter.

 

[Geronimo45]

OSOK, here's the site for the Glock (and 1911) carbine conversions:
http://www.mechtechsys.com

 

[Bobarino]

i have a Sub2000 glock 9mm version and i love it. its fun as heck to shoot, i can take it in my backpack in the woods, 33 rd mags are widely available and its more accurate than one might think it would be. mine doesn't like Fiocchi for some reason but everything else runs fine in it. its blowback operated so it gets dirty but its easy as pie to clean since you don't have to monkey with anything to get an easy shot at the breech end to clean the bore. i got mine a long time ago for $289 and couldn't be happier. you'll love yours.

Bobby

 

[Walkalong]

I have a Sub2000 9MM (Beretta model) and it shoots great. I really like it.

I can get as much as 1430 Avg FPS with the Ranier 115 Gr RN while staying within Speer #13 load data for jacketed bullets. It shoots great at those velocities too.

 

[marshall3]

I have the Beretta version

I have the Beretta version, with several 20 round mags. I'm glad to see that someone is reading my little compendium page at mouseguns.com.

 

[O.S.O.K.]

mouse guns and mech tech

Geronimo, thanks - yeah, that's the one Mech Tech - a good option for a Glock 45 IMHO - and they have several folder options now - I kinda like this one:

Doesnt' fold but it does adjust to your pull length which is nice.

Marshall - you did that site? Its great and chocked full of information and reviews - after reading there, I made the decision to go ahead and get one.

Thanks for making that!

ETA - my dealer's supplier was out! I found one at Impact guns and they contacted me and told me it would be several weeks - backorder... I took (another) look at gunbroker and found a place that had one with a "buy now" of $300 and $20 ship - bingo. Is on the way now - confirmed.

These things are selling like hot cakes. I ordered a stock extender and short picatinny rail to mount a light and the gal at Kel Tech told me that they can't keep up with the orders.

Wonder why these are selling so briskly at this time? They've been around for a while...