A Horseman's Holster

[The Bushmaster]

CraigC...You need to quit putting gin in yer coffee. Try a little rum or whiskey instead. It may improve yer personality a bit. Maybe.

 

[CraigC]

Funny, I was thinking the same thing.

 

[grter]

Hmmm I have given this a little thought and I like flap holsters that protect the whole gun.

These other hollywood cowboy holsters may be good for those who hold their head up high all the time and like to quick draw blast any and every thing that pops up within a 7 yard radius around them.

For those real cowboys or city slicker cowboys at heart like me there are times when we may have to go down to the dirt, crawl, and get dirty.

If we have to we do not consider ourselves to good for the dirt. Us practicioners just do what has to done without thought to that kind of nonsense.

While we are not so fragile and dainty unfortunalty most guns (with the exception of the great AK platform, the underdog of all battle rifles, god bless Kalashnikov) even the most reliable pistols are not and getting dirt, dust, debris, or whatever inside is not going to keep your sidearm ready for when you need it.

That is where the flap holster is really a practical choice for the practicing cowboy. I admit I am more of a wanabee but I can see the logic of a time tested and battle proven cross draw flap holster for practical use.

Now don't get me wrong those other holsters are great or even better for everyday standard metro use so long as you creep with caution when going through backyard shrubbery and keep out of the dirt.

If you feel you really may have to use your sidearm on the fly I would suggest holding it your hand.

 

[Old Fuff]

Well you have a point. From the very beginning horseback troopers used full or half-flap holsters, as did many others. Open-top ones generally covered just about everything but the handle. Prior to the 1930's and even after, low cut pouch designs that exposed everything from the rear of the cylinder and front of the trigger guard, backwards were seldom seen and were usually intended to be covered by a garment.

I would observe that rawhide string loops apparently were not common, and became even less so when snap-fastened safety straps were introduced.

Horses have a knack for rubbing up against things or sometimes slipping and falling down. When picking a holster this should be taken into consideration.

 

[Malamute]

originally posted by grter

Hmmm I have given this a little thought and I like flap holsters that protect the whole gun.

These other hollywood cowboy holsters may be good for those who hold their head up high all the time and like to quick draw blast any and every thing that pops up within a 7 yard radius around them.

For those real cowboys or city slicker cowboys at heart like me there are times when we may have to go down to the dirt, crawl, and get dirty.

If we have to we do not consider ourselves to good for the dirt. Us practicioners just do what has to done without thought to that kind of nonsense.

While we are not so fragile and dainty unfortunalty most guns (with the exception of the great AK platform, the underdog of all battle rifles, god bless Kalashnikov) even the most reliable pistols are not and getting dirt, dust, debris, or whatever inside is not going to keep your sidearm ready for when you need it.

That is where the flap holster is really a practical choice for the practicing cowboy. I admit I am more of a wanabee but I can see the logic of a time tested and battle proven cross draw flap holster for practical use.

Now don't get me wrong those other holsters are great or even better for everyday standard metro use so long as you creep with caution when going through backyard shrubbery and keep out of the dirt.

If you feel you really may have to use your sidearm on the fly I would suggest holding it your hand.

So, it's either/or? A full flap or anything else is hollywood cowboy nonsense? Pretty strong opinions.

My poor dainty Smith seemed to work fine the 6 or so years I spent mostly living outside in all weather, sleeping on the ground as often as not, and carried daily over many years. It got cleaned once or twice a year over a couple years, I'm sure it was cleaned more aften after getting out of the backyard shrubbery though. I'm not a cowboy, nor have I played one on TV, but besides being semi-nomadic those years, I spent some time in the northern rockies wrangling dudes and hunters off horses a bit. The poor dainty Smith somehow still worked fine with minimal care and my hollywood Threepersons rigs. I didn't realize how lucky I was.

One never truly knows when their arm will be required, if so, I'd have a rifle in hand, not a sixgun when that moment arrived. We all make choices in our arms and gear. One mans choice may seem like a handicap to another, we all make that decision. I choose not to handicap myself for quickness of use or security. If someone else makes another choice, more power to them, I can respect that, especially if it's backed by experience and their individual situation. I feel some make choices based on theory more than actual use though. My poor old Smith, and the Threepersons type holster I had made to order.

 

[Certaindeaf]

That thing has probably killed a few things.

 

[grter]

OK I will admit I didn't know the tiny bit of history that I now know concerning Tom Threepersons.

The little that I read about him I liked in paticualar him refusing to allow hollywood to make a movie about his life story because he did not like the script or the type of people who wanted to make money off of his story.

From what I gather his holster is a specialty design customized for his line of dangerous work which was tracking down heavily armed and dangerous evil people.

His type of work I would guess is far from what the average poineer did and the need for getting a fast drop on an armed gunman anytime and anywhere made it necessary for him develope a holster that prioritized fast access over the other advantages that a flap or other more gun protective holster would provide.

It seems Tom Three Persons was very practical minded in that regard and made the choice according to his greatest need.

Most designs have advantages and disadvantages and one can only hope to make the best choices according to their needs.

 

[Malamute]

Originally posted by grter

....Most designs have advantages and disadvantages and one can only hope to make the best choices according to their needs.

Well said.

 

[CraigC]

....Most designs have advantages and disadvantages and one can only hope to make the best choices according to their needs.

Exactly!

 

[BSA1]

For maximum protection and security a of a handgun when horseback riding the full-flap holster is tops but the half-flap is more practical. I had this holster made for a Remington 1858 C&B with 8" barrel. It is a copy of half-flap holster pictured in the book "Packing Iron." The half-flap on this period correct design protects the caps and cylinder from the weather such as rain and avoids excess leather such as pictured in Post #1.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

It is no accident that the M1912 and M1916 holsters for the M1911 were half flap holsters.

 

[rcmodel]

I'm not sure I would call either one a half-flap holster.

They fit the full flap description in my holster book.

Only the tip end of the 1911 butt peeks out anyway.

rc

 

[CraigC]

I agree that the 1912 and 1916 are much closer to a full flap than a half. BSA1's beautiful rig above is a classic example of a half flap.

It is no accident that the M1912 and M1916 holsters for the M1911 were half flap holsters.

Was it an accident that they hang way down on the hip like a Hollywood rig??? Because apparently if a holster has a single design feature that's similar to a buscadero rig, then it was obviously influenced by them.

 

[Old Fuff]

Was it an accident that they hang way down on the hip like a Hollywood rig??? Because apparently if a holster has a single design feature that's similar to a buscadero rig, then it was obviously influenced by them.

Highly doubtful. The popularity of buscadero rigs (to whatever degree they were popular) was Hollywood based and largely because of 1930's and later movies. In 1912 and 1916 as well as earlier, the few westerns that were made didn't feature them.

 

[CraigC]

I know, I was being facetious and trying to make a point with Vern.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I'm not sure I would call either one a half-flap holster.

They fit the full flap description in my holster book.

Only the tip end of the 1911 butt peeks out anyway.

True -- but compared to contemporary European holsters, they are half-flap.

The M1917 Holster is a true half-flap.

 

[CraigC]

European holsters are more like fitted pistol cases that just happen to have a belt loop. Obviously a product of societies that have disarmed their citizens.

 

[Malamute]

I've used a couple different half flaps, they worked well, but overall, I didnt have any trouble with an open holster. If they get rained and snowed on, they still work, at least mine have.

Lawrence did a half flap that had a snap/strap coming from below, a downward motion of the hand or the thumb would pop the strap, allowing a little quicker access to the gun. Seems like a good idea, I have a couple, but never seem to use them.

 

[Old Fuff]

Lawrence, located in Portland OR., was in a market area where high levels of rain and snow were often the order of the day. Consequently they used leather that was oil finished, and had models that offered more protection to the handgun. Gun leather makers in Texas for example didn't have to take these environmental conditions into as much consideration.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Old Fuff..In 1966 I purchased a Lawrence gun belt and holster for my Colt. I have never oiled it or did any other preservation of the rig except to keep it clean. It still has the original oil finish and if you rub the leather with your finger it comes back with a smudge of oil on it. Some of the highest quality leather work came from that company.

 

[Old Fuff]

Your experience is not unusual. They opened their doors (I believe) in 1854, and remained in business for well over a century. That kind of track record reflects the quality of the products they turned out. They remain in demand even today.

 

[CraigC]

I have a floral carved jockstrap holster by Lawrence that is probably 50rs old and it still looks like new.

 

[Malamute]

I have a number of Lawrence holsters and cartridge belts, they are of good quality. A gun shop in Fairbanks was going out of business in about '89 or '90 (Frontier I believe). I bought a fair pile of Lawrence leather for very good prices. I'm still using the 44 belt near daily. It's the belt in the pic with my 29. I need to restitch the cartridge loops, it will be the first time for this belt. The leather quality is quite good, the loops have not stretched out to a larger caliber, as I've had happen with other makes. I also have a couple of their #120, the basic Threepersons type that Keith said he had some input into.

One of the Lawrence 120's with a Ruger 45. It has a few miles on it. You can see the deerskin string run under the trigger guard to tighten up the fit to the gun after several years of wear loosened it up a bit. It pinches the holster back tight around the frame.

 

[CraigC]

My local shop bought all the stock from another going out of business back sometime in the mid `90's. Including a bunch of grips and leather. I bought a dozen or so Bianchi and Freedom Arms holsters for $20 each and several pairs of fancy walnut Herrett's grips for cheap. Sold about half the stuff online for a nice profit. Also bought several hundred rounds of the Remington .38Spl "FBI load" really cheap but it all went up in smoke.

 

[brbdwyr]

GP100 in a Bianchi crossdraw.



It's not going anywhere, it's not gonna get snagged up with the butt all tucked up against my left hip, and it would take one heck of a crazy wreck for me to fall on it. Besides, my ride is rock-solid.