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Time to bite the bullet on gun ban
By Kate Hoey
Last Updated: 12:53am GMT 08/02/2007
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Dear Home Secretary,
I know you have much on your mind at the moment dealing with crises such as bulging prisons and escaped drug traffickers. It may seem strange then that I am writing to you about a sporting issue – one which you alone have the power to help with, that is if your officials can find the papers which are probably buried under a pile of other pressing matters.
Like me you will remember vividly the horror we all felt back in 1996 when 16 children and a teacher were shot dead at a school in Dunblane by a deranged man with a gun. Politicians reacted in haste to the call for 'something to be done'. A partial ban on hand guns was implemented immediately, followed by a total ban as one of the first measures taken by the new Labour Government in 1997.
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As I am sure your officials will tell you, there was absolutely no evidence to suggest that by banning legally-licensed cartridge pistols and closing legally-operating shooting clubs, we would all sleep safer in our beds. Yet today there are more hand guns on our streets than 10 years ago.
What the ban did do was to make perfectly decent, dedicated law-abiding citizens of England, Wales and Scotland (Northern Ireland was excluded from the legislation) give up their sport. At a stroke our competitive pistol shooters were forced to go abroad to train for Olympic and world competitions. Overnight thousands of men and women had to hand in their pistols, with no thanks for the role they had played, over several decades, in helping the police with the licensing system.
You will recall that we hosted the Commonwealth Games in 2002 in Manchester and that the ban was lifted partially for overseas competitors and UK nationals to import their pistols temporarily, in the UK case from Switzerland. The Games finished and the ban was re-introduced.
When London won the bid for the 2012 Olympics, the British Olympic Association and the governing bodies of shooting put forward a case to your department for legislative exemptions which would allow our pistol shooters and a large squad of sporting hopefuls to be granted dispensation under Section Five of the Act so that they could retain their sporting pistols at home without ammunition in order to do their daily 'dry training'. Registered regional shooting clubs would also be designated as a place for weapons to be used.
It looked like a way forward could be agreed. The sports minister, Richard Caborn, assured the BOA that he had written to the Home Office giving his support for exemptions. An Early Day Motion in the Commons attracted significant support from all sides of the house and the public have, I believe, realised that target pistol shooters were victims of rough justice in the 1997 legislation. An e-petition on the No 10 website for the restoration of target pistol shooting under suitable controls is gaining signatures every day.
However, somewhere in your department the paper trail has stopped and the silence is deafening. Time is running out.
We now have some of the best talent in recent years, particularly in the women's events where Julia Lydall and Georgina Geikie have done so well with air pistols. But they are at a serious disadvantage when it comes to the Olympic discipline of cartridge pistols.
Would you like to meet them? They are both former modern pentathletes, level headed, hugely talented and excellent role models for young people. They could tell you of how disadvantaged they are competing against athletes from other countries who can train every day (unlike the three days a month they do, and then only in Switzerland). Surely, Home Secretary, you must see that implying that these young people are a risk to the public is ludicrous?
Time is also running out to train the range officials, adjudicators and administrators needed for 2012.
Presumably you know that shooting is an important Olympic discipline, second only to athletics in terms of numbers of countries affiliated to the International Shooting Sport Federation and we will have to provide at least 40 highly trained officials to administer the event. Many of those involved in 2002 will have retired by 2012.
The solution is simple. Everyone in sport is signed up to the suggested solution of using Section Five dispensations. Please, could you forget prisons and sex offenders for an hour or so this week and make a Commons-sense decision to help our target shooters? There would be no loss of control over the ownership of pistols, no danger to public safety and no need for primary legislation.
Target shooters are reliable, trustworthy and an asset to their communities – the kind of people your department want to support. Don't you feel ashamed that most democracies have more faith in their citizens to participate in one of the oldest Olympic sports than we do?
Over to you Home Secretary – we need a decision urgently.
Yours sincerely, Kate Hoey
Labour MP for Vauxhall
As a former pistol shooter (FAC holder 40 years) I totally agree with Kate's letter. Would that there were more MPs of ANY party with her integrity.
Posted by Bob Newell on February 16, 2007 10:41 AM
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I fully support Kate Hoey's letter to the Home Secretary.
What a breath of fresh air from an "honest" politician a first for any of the diabolical breed. Respect for anybody in politics is now a complete joke.
I doubt that any Home Secretary has the gonads to admit the travesty of the 1997 Firearms (Amendment) Act.
The general public do not realise how much we received in compensation, I am sure if they did, they would not been so keen to give in to the emotional blackmail and insults dished out to the most trusted citizens in the country: shooters!
Go on politicians, do something honest for a change, Admit your mistake repeal the knee-jerk law and allow Britain’s shooters to have their pistols back and we might have a chance of a medal, should the Olympics get off the ground.
Posted by Phil Standen on February 15, 2007 7:46 PM
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I am a soldier in the Territorial Army. I have won many inter battalion shooting competions and find this sport immensely satisfying. I also shoot rifles as a civilian pastime. I used to shoot handguns, but sadly they were banned following Dunblane. To what effect?? It strikes me that the only people worse off for the handgun ban are the good, decent law abiding shooting comunity. Recently there have been some horrendous incidents involving handguns on the streets of London and naturally, not one of them has been with a legally held handgun. The handgun ban has, in my opinion contributed to the black market desirability of firearms, since they are a banned item. The government, both Conservative and Labour have shot themselves in the foot if you pardon the pun.
I very much enjoy shooting pistol, since in my opinion it is one of the most challenging and diverse forms of shooting sport there is and I take the opportunity to shoot pistol whenever I travel abroad to a more liberal country.
I personally would like the opportunity to see if I could compete for my country in the 2012 Olympics, but I need to be able to practice in this country first, before I can even consider applying for asessment for the olympic team.
Nearly half of Britains Gold mdals have been through shooting sports in the past, many of these pistol related. Without new blood coming into the pistol shooting sports, Britains medals prtfolio faces a bleak future.
I find it infuriating my government will expect me to pick up an automatic rifle and anti-tank weapons in defence of my country, yet will not trust me as a law abiding citizen with a sport I love and would love one day to compete in.
Posted by Steve on February 15, 2007 6:25 PM
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I wholeheartedly support Kate Hoeys comments. The use of pistols for genuine sporting purposes has absolutely nothing to do with the criminal use of firearms. I only hope the Daily Telegraph will do all it can to bring this issue to the governments attention.
Posted by Jan Powell on February 15, 2007 6:14 PM
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The goverments own figures show that the hand gun ban did Nothing to stop gun crime. Crime with illegally held handguns has increased several fold. We already have the laws in place to deal with people who buy, sell and use illegally held unlicenced guns. With the Olimpics on the way to this Country, our shooting teams should be able to train at locally licenced clubs without having to travel abroad for a couple of days a month. If they are to stand any chance of gold they must be able to compete with an equal chance of success. There are a lot of licencing and gun issues that need to be addressed, allowing our sportsmen and women to train would be a step in the right direction.
Posted by Tim Holt on February 15, 2007 9:57 AM
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A brief note to state my support for Kate Hoey's stand. It seems tragic to deprive shooter's in the UK of access to a sport in which we have excelled. It is sad that the British appear to be the only europeans who cannot be trusted by their own government to behave responsibly. I fully support controls, but bans are at best useless and at worst downright damaging.
Posted by Dr. J Craig Jobling on February 14, 2007 12:33 AM
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I have read Kate’s letter and no wonder she is no longer Minster for Sport, as in the Prime Ministers’ Government there can be no possibility for fact and logic to replace blind obedience to Policy.
And Policy is any fixed idea or gimmick that takes the public by storm, and thereafter is the unchangeable word, for the Government must never look back, never be wrong.
I have also read all the comments, many from friends I know personally, and the very best of citizens this Country has. And I applaud them all.
Yet I weep, and I do not know why; frustration; sorrowing for all that was lost, to no benefit whatsoever?
But above all for the terrible fear that not only will our plea be rejected a slightly as you would dismiss a childish lie, but that soon there will be another Crime Reduction Bill, or some “Initiative” or “Sensible” proposal made, such as an age limit, or further types of Target Shooting be banned. That it will be of no use for the purpose will not matter one jot; Policy, again.
Yet I will raise the Plea, grant us our wish Prime Minister, and let Justice under the Common Law be done!
Rae Wills
Classic Arms (Shooting with Historic Arms)
Representative Member of the General Council of the National Rifle Association of Great Britain.
Member, Historical
Posted by Rae H F Wills on February 13, 2007 11:08 PM
Report this comment
We all still feel for the people whose lives were changed by the events that started the process where law abiding citizens were deprived of a hobby and many business people were put out of work. Nothing can change the sad events that happened and we need to ensure that it cannot be repeated, however banning hand guns has done nothing to help protect anyone.
I have faith in our local police force and truly believe if the ban is lifted the police will this time take great care with who is granted ownership of a hand gun. I am sure this time no mistakes will take place and no one will this time be issued with a licence who has any level of doubt.
It is truly time more people like Kate had the courage to challenge a ban that was introduced in haste and will go down in history as wrong.
Posted by Nigel on February 13, 2007 11:03 PM
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The handgun ban following Dunblane was the classic 'if you can't kick the milkman, kick his horse'. The perperator Hamilton was dead, and so the wrath was turned on everyone else in legal possession of a handgun. Hamilton was clearly so deranged that he should never have been granted a Firearm Certificate, and the resulting ban was simply an admission that law could not be enforced. The government, as ever, responded to hype rather than reason, and so we are now left in a position where bona fide shooters, and not a few police officers, are up to their ears in paperwork and have to make for the Continent every time they wish to indulge their hobby. Meanwhile criminals apparently can buy handguns illegally at a fraction of the cost borne by legitimate shooters and gun crime escalates uncontrolled. Given that the ban's only demonstrable effect has been to inconvenience those acting in good faith, it must surely be time to end it.
Posted by steve barrett on February 13, 2007 8:52 PM
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I totally back Kate Hoey's statement
Posted by Nicholas Harlow on February 13, 2007 8:01 PM
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I would like to add my support to Kate - the handgun ban has had no benefit, and needs to be repealed.
Posted by R Davidson on February 13, 2007 7:53 PM
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Whilst I know little about guns, it does seem that the letter from Kate Hoey sets out the needs for reasonable and sensible change. Whilst the Government is about it perhaps they could look again at the NERC Act 2006 that is again a prime example of knee jerk legislation that has hit every target except that it was aimed at - illegal motorcycles. Being a user of legal motorcycles I find my hobby of exploring the countryside on my bike severely curtailed , unless I wish to risk being classified as a criminal, which having got to the ripe young age of 58 I have so far avoided. Please government act now and repeal NERC 2006
Posted by Arnold Brewer on February 13, 2007 2:51 PM
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Kate Hoey is to be applauded once again for raising the issue of cartridge target pistol shooting. The evidence to support such a ban does not add up - but politicians of all persuasions only do as they are told. The ban on the personal possession of target pistols is yet another bite off of the HO agenda to disarm the civilian population. Note Hungerford, the majority of victims were killed with a 9 mm pistol - the HO banned self loading rifles. Dunblane, icing on the cake, allowing the HO another large bite. The pistol ban allowed many other undesirous events and circumstances to be swept away from public scrutiny, i.e. the Cullen inquiry. I do not advocate a free for all in the personal possession of firearms, but the current ban defies all logic and natural justice. Self serving politicians never allow logic and justice get in their way in furthering their agendas. The 'not fit for purpose' Home Office will not allow the re-constructed communist, presently at the helm exercise commonsense. I for one, having the opportunity of a lifetime stolen by a self serving crowd of biased politicians, of representing my country in the Olympic sport of target pistol shooting, will not be holding my breath.
Posted by Brian Silvester (BPC) on February 13, 2007 9:38 AM
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She would definately get my vote for the PMs job,if only there were more MPs,like her.
By Kate Hoey
Last Updated: 12:53am GMT 08/02/2007
Comment on this story Read comments
Dear Home Secretary,
I know you have much on your mind at the moment dealing with crises such as bulging prisons and escaped drug traffickers. It may seem strange then that I am writing to you about a sporting issue – one which you alone have the power to help with, that is if your officials can find the papers which are probably buried under a pile of other pressing matters.
Like me you will remember vividly the horror we all felt back in 1996 when 16 children and a teacher were shot dead at a school in Dunblane by a deranged man with a gun. Politicians reacted in haste to the call for 'something to be done'. A partial ban on hand guns was implemented immediately, followed by a total ban as one of the first measures taken by the new Labour Government in 1997.
advertisement
As I am sure your officials will tell you, there was absolutely no evidence to suggest that by banning legally-licensed cartridge pistols and closing legally-operating shooting clubs, we would all sleep safer in our beds. Yet today there are more hand guns on our streets than 10 years ago.
What the ban did do was to make perfectly decent, dedicated law-abiding citizens of England, Wales and Scotland (Northern Ireland was excluded from the legislation) give up their sport. At a stroke our competitive pistol shooters were forced to go abroad to train for Olympic and world competitions. Overnight thousands of men and women had to hand in their pistols, with no thanks for the role they had played, over several decades, in helping the police with the licensing system.
You will recall that we hosted the Commonwealth Games in 2002 in Manchester and that the ban was lifted partially for overseas competitors and UK nationals to import their pistols temporarily, in the UK case from Switzerland. The Games finished and the ban was re-introduced.
When London won the bid for the 2012 Olympics, the British Olympic Association and the governing bodies of shooting put forward a case to your department for legislative exemptions which would allow our pistol shooters and a large squad of sporting hopefuls to be granted dispensation under Section Five of the Act so that they could retain their sporting pistols at home without ammunition in order to do their daily 'dry training'. Registered regional shooting clubs would also be designated as a place for weapons to be used.
It looked like a way forward could be agreed. The sports minister, Richard Caborn, assured the BOA that he had written to the Home Office giving his support for exemptions. An Early Day Motion in the Commons attracted significant support from all sides of the house and the public have, I believe, realised that target pistol shooters were victims of rough justice in the 1997 legislation. An e-petition on the No 10 website for the restoration of target pistol shooting under suitable controls is gaining signatures every day.
However, somewhere in your department the paper trail has stopped and the silence is deafening. Time is running out.
We now have some of the best talent in recent years, particularly in the women's events where Julia Lydall and Georgina Geikie have done so well with air pistols. But they are at a serious disadvantage when it comes to the Olympic discipline of cartridge pistols.
Would you like to meet them? They are both former modern pentathletes, level headed, hugely talented and excellent role models for young people. They could tell you of how disadvantaged they are competing against athletes from other countries who can train every day (unlike the three days a month they do, and then only in Switzerland). Surely, Home Secretary, you must see that implying that these young people are a risk to the public is ludicrous?
Time is also running out to train the range officials, adjudicators and administrators needed for 2012.
Presumably you know that shooting is an important Olympic discipline, second only to athletics in terms of numbers of countries affiliated to the International Shooting Sport Federation and we will have to provide at least 40 highly trained officials to administer the event. Many of those involved in 2002 will have retired by 2012.
The solution is simple. Everyone in sport is signed up to the suggested solution of using Section Five dispensations. Please, could you forget prisons and sex offenders for an hour or so this week and make a Commons-sense decision to help our target shooters? There would be no loss of control over the ownership of pistols, no danger to public safety and no need for primary legislation.
Target shooters are reliable, trustworthy and an asset to their communities – the kind of people your department want to support. Don't you feel ashamed that most democracies have more faith in their citizens to participate in one of the oldest Olympic sports than we do?
Over to you Home Secretary – we need a decision urgently.
Yours sincerely, Kate Hoey
Labour MP for Vauxhall
As a former pistol shooter (FAC holder 40 years) I totally agree with Kate's letter. Would that there were more MPs of ANY party with her integrity.
Posted by Bob Newell on February 16, 2007 10:41 AM
Report this comment
I fully support Kate Hoey's letter to the Home Secretary.
What a breath of fresh air from an "honest" politician a first for any of the diabolical breed. Respect for anybody in politics is now a complete joke.
I doubt that any Home Secretary has the gonads to admit the travesty of the 1997 Firearms (Amendment) Act.
The general public do not realise how much we received in compensation, I am sure if they did, they would not been so keen to give in to the emotional blackmail and insults dished out to the most trusted citizens in the country: shooters!
Go on politicians, do something honest for a change, Admit your mistake repeal the knee-jerk law and allow Britain’s shooters to have their pistols back and we might have a chance of a medal, should the Olympics get off the ground.
Posted by Phil Standen on February 15, 2007 7:46 PM
Report this comment
I am a soldier in the Territorial Army. I have won many inter battalion shooting competions and find this sport immensely satisfying. I also shoot rifles as a civilian pastime. I used to shoot handguns, but sadly they were banned following Dunblane. To what effect?? It strikes me that the only people worse off for the handgun ban are the good, decent law abiding shooting comunity. Recently there have been some horrendous incidents involving handguns on the streets of London and naturally, not one of them has been with a legally held handgun. The handgun ban has, in my opinion contributed to the black market desirability of firearms, since they are a banned item. The government, both Conservative and Labour have shot themselves in the foot if you pardon the pun.
I very much enjoy shooting pistol, since in my opinion it is one of the most challenging and diverse forms of shooting sport there is and I take the opportunity to shoot pistol whenever I travel abroad to a more liberal country.
I personally would like the opportunity to see if I could compete for my country in the 2012 Olympics, but I need to be able to practice in this country first, before I can even consider applying for asessment for the olympic team.
Nearly half of Britains Gold mdals have been through shooting sports in the past, many of these pistol related. Without new blood coming into the pistol shooting sports, Britains medals prtfolio faces a bleak future.
I find it infuriating my government will expect me to pick up an automatic rifle and anti-tank weapons in defence of my country, yet will not trust me as a law abiding citizen with a sport I love and would love one day to compete in.
Posted by Steve on February 15, 2007 6:25 PM
Report this comment
I wholeheartedly support Kate Hoeys comments. The use of pistols for genuine sporting purposes has absolutely nothing to do with the criminal use of firearms. I only hope the Daily Telegraph will do all it can to bring this issue to the governments attention.
Posted by Jan Powell on February 15, 2007 6:14 PM
Report this comment
The goverments own figures show that the hand gun ban did Nothing to stop gun crime. Crime with illegally held handguns has increased several fold. We already have the laws in place to deal with people who buy, sell and use illegally held unlicenced guns. With the Olimpics on the way to this Country, our shooting teams should be able to train at locally licenced clubs without having to travel abroad for a couple of days a month. If they are to stand any chance of gold they must be able to compete with an equal chance of success. There are a lot of licencing and gun issues that need to be addressed, allowing our sportsmen and women to train would be a step in the right direction.
Posted by Tim Holt on February 15, 2007 9:57 AM
Report this comment
A brief note to state my support for Kate Hoey's stand. It seems tragic to deprive shooter's in the UK of access to a sport in which we have excelled. It is sad that the British appear to be the only europeans who cannot be trusted by their own government to behave responsibly. I fully support controls, but bans are at best useless and at worst downright damaging.
Posted by Dr. J Craig Jobling on February 14, 2007 12:33 AM
Report this comment
I have read Kate’s letter and no wonder she is no longer Minster for Sport, as in the Prime Ministers’ Government there can be no possibility for fact and logic to replace blind obedience to Policy.
And Policy is any fixed idea or gimmick that takes the public by storm, and thereafter is the unchangeable word, for the Government must never look back, never be wrong.
I have also read all the comments, many from friends I know personally, and the very best of citizens this Country has. And I applaud them all.
Yet I weep, and I do not know why; frustration; sorrowing for all that was lost, to no benefit whatsoever?
But above all for the terrible fear that not only will our plea be rejected a slightly as you would dismiss a childish lie, but that soon there will be another Crime Reduction Bill, or some “Initiative” or “Sensible” proposal made, such as an age limit, or further types of Target Shooting be banned. That it will be of no use for the purpose will not matter one jot; Policy, again.
Yet I will raise the Plea, grant us our wish Prime Minister, and let Justice under the Common Law be done!
Rae Wills
Classic Arms (Shooting with Historic Arms)
Representative Member of the General Council of the National Rifle Association of Great Britain.
Member, Historical
Posted by Rae H F Wills on February 13, 2007 11:08 PM
Report this comment
We all still feel for the people whose lives were changed by the events that started the process where law abiding citizens were deprived of a hobby and many business people were put out of work. Nothing can change the sad events that happened and we need to ensure that it cannot be repeated, however banning hand guns has done nothing to help protect anyone.
I have faith in our local police force and truly believe if the ban is lifted the police will this time take great care with who is granted ownership of a hand gun. I am sure this time no mistakes will take place and no one will this time be issued with a licence who has any level of doubt.
It is truly time more people like Kate had the courage to challenge a ban that was introduced in haste and will go down in history as wrong.
Posted by Nigel on February 13, 2007 11:03 PM
Report this comment
The handgun ban following Dunblane was the classic 'if you can't kick the milkman, kick his horse'. The perperator Hamilton was dead, and so the wrath was turned on everyone else in legal possession of a handgun. Hamilton was clearly so deranged that he should never have been granted a Firearm Certificate, and the resulting ban was simply an admission that law could not be enforced. The government, as ever, responded to hype rather than reason, and so we are now left in a position where bona fide shooters, and not a few police officers, are up to their ears in paperwork and have to make for the Continent every time they wish to indulge their hobby. Meanwhile criminals apparently can buy handguns illegally at a fraction of the cost borne by legitimate shooters and gun crime escalates uncontrolled. Given that the ban's only demonstrable effect has been to inconvenience those acting in good faith, it must surely be time to end it.
Posted by steve barrett on February 13, 2007 8:52 PM
Report this comment
I totally back Kate Hoey's statement
Posted by Nicholas Harlow on February 13, 2007 8:01 PM
Report this comment
I would like to add my support to Kate - the handgun ban has had no benefit, and needs to be repealed.
Posted by R Davidson on February 13, 2007 7:53 PM
Report this comment
Whilst I know little about guns, it does seem that the letter from Kate Hoey sets out the needs for reasonable and sensible change. Whilst the Government is about it perhaps they could look again at the NERC Act 2006 that is again a prime example of knee jerk legislation that has hit every target except that it was aimed at - illegal motorcycles. Being a user of legal motorcycles I find my hobby of exploring the countryside on my bike severely curtailed , unless I wish to risk being classified as a criminal, which having got to the ripe young age of 58 I have so far avoided. Please government act now and repeal NERC 2006
Posted by Arnold Brewer on February 13, 2007 2:51 PM
Report this comment
Kate Hoey is to be applauded once again for raising the issue of cartridge target pistol shooting. The evidence to support such a ban does not add up - but politicians of all persuasions only do as they are told. The ban on the personal possession of target pistols is yet another bite off of the HO agenda to disarm the civilian population. Note Hungerford, the majority of victims were killed with a 9 mm pistol - the HO banned self loading rifles. Dunblane, icing on the cake, allowing the HO another large bite. The pistol ban allowed many other undesirous events and circumstances to be swept away from public scrutiny, i.e. the Cullen inquiry. I do not advocate a free for all in the personal possession of firearms, but the current ban defies all logic and natural justice. Self serving politicians never allow logic and justice get in their way in furthering their agendas. The 'not fit for purpose' Home Office will not allow the re-constructed communist, presently at the helm exercise commonsense. I for one, having the opportunity of a lifetime stolen by a self serving crowd of biased politicians, of representing my country in the Olympic sport of target pistol shooting, will not be holding my breath.
Posted by Brian Silvester (BPC) on February 13, 2007 9:38 AM
Report this comment
She would definately get my vote for the PMs job,if only there were more MPs,like her.