A little concerned about CHL instruction in Texas.

[Xringfighter]

My employer provides CHL instruction at no cost to it's employee's. This combined with the State's veteran's discount (50%) allows me to obtain my CHL for $70.00

Our instructor claims heritage from an elite unit of an already elite branch of our armed forces.

In the course of the five hour, first part of the class I was enlightened by such gems as;

The .45 ACP is inaccurate after 25 yds., Glock pistols are designed for close range only, A Sig 229 is designed for long range work, No pistol will function correctly unless you clean it thoroughly after every range session, You cannot purchase a Glock or a Sig pistol with a 3.5 lb trigger, If you are near-sighted, you have to remove your glasses before you shoot so that only your sights are in focus, You must close your non- shooting eye in order to ensure hits on target, the weaver stance is the only proper stance...

It was the psychological equivalent of listening to nails on a chalkboard for five hours.

A little advice, If you are in Texas and obtain a CHL spend a little extra money and recieve tactical instruction form a competent instructor. Don't be afraid to ask for references and view the certificates from the school(s) the instructor claims to have been certified by.

Spend time on the range practicing all the skills you've learned.

 

[geophysicishooter]

but didn't you find his annectdotes about vietnam exhilerating?

 

[Impax]

And all this time I thought the problem was me, now I know it's my .45

 

[Xringfighter]

Geo- I thought I was being vague enough... Guess not.

 

[Slvr Surfr]

You should tell your boss about the poor instruction you received. Who knows what kind of misinformation he is spewing by continuing to spread his opinions.

 

[Xringfighter]

Combat Experience with the .45 ACP


Oft times, comments on this net are about GySgt. Carlos Hathcock’s sniping adventures in Vietnam. Here’s one that very few know about, but is probably just as good as far as accuracy during combat is concerned.

A Navy SEAL Team was returning from a mission over North Vietnam in a chopper when it got hit pretty bad. The pilot and one crew member were killed and the copilot was wounded. Going into autorotation, the copilot managed to set the chopper down in a clearing. After landing, a few rounds of enemy fire were starting to come in. Seems the M60s were also damaged beyond use by the crash landing and initial RPG hit, the only M16 fell out on the way down.

The only firearms left was M1911s.The remaining crew member was carrying a match conditioned M1911 and had a few boxes of ammo. As more enemy small arms fire started coming in, the copilot and crew member also noted that the VC were coming out of the jungle and approaching them; shooting as they came. The crew member took out his .45 and took careful aim as he shot at each attacking VC. About 30 minutes later it was all over. Between reloading magazines and radioing for rescue, the copilot was pretty busy, but a rescue chopper finally arrived on the scene.

As the rescue chopper came in and landed, its crew noticed a lot of dead VC laying around. The downed helo’s remaining crew were picked up and on their way out, they counted the dead VC; 37 in all. Their distances from the downed helo were from 3 to about 150 yards; all shot by the crew member with his M1911 .45 ACP. About 80 rounds were fired by Petty Officer R.J. Thomas, a member of the USN Rifle and Pistol Team.

Petty Officer Thomas was recommended for the Congressional Medal of Honor, but by the time the recommendation got all the way up through the chain of command, the recognition was reduced to the Navy Cross.

This incident has been cited this as the only known of example of top-level combat marksmanship since SGT Alvin York’s escapades in WWI.

Submitted by Mark Eberhard-CEO & President
LtCol. USMCR (Ret.)
American Marksman Group
(850) 626-9963
Visit: www.americanmarksman.com

Tell that guy the .45 is a 25m gun...

 

[geophysicishooter]

X-ring - sorry, I can be a little obtuse at times.

i wonder what he thinks happens to the .45 at 25 yards that makes it so inaccurate..

I'll leave y'all to this. I'll be at the range. I've got to solve this .45 mystery..

 

[Xringfighter]

Combat Experience with the .45 ACP


Oft times, comments on this net are about GySgt. Carlos Hathcock’s sniping adventures in Vietnam. Here’s one that very few know about, but is probably just as good as far as accuracy during combat is concerned.

A Navy SEAL Team was returning from a mission over North Vietnam in a chopper when it got hit pretty bad. The pilot and one crew member were killed and the copilot was wounded. Going into autorotation, the copilot managed to set the chopper down in a clearing. After landing, a few rounds of enemy fire were starting to come in. Seems the M60s were also damaged beyond use by the crash landing and initial RPG hit, the only M16 fell out on the way down.

The only firearms left was M1911s.The remaining crew member was carrying a match conditioned M1911 and had a few boxes of ammo. As more enemy small arms fire started coming in, the copilot and crew member also noted that the VC were coming out of the jungle and approaching them; shooting as they came. The crew member took out his .45 and took careful aim as he shot at each attacking VC. About 30 minutes later it was all over. Between reloading magazines and radioing for rescue, the copilot was pretty busy, but a rescue chopper finally arrived on the scene.

As the rescue chopper came in and landed, its crew noticed a lot of dead VC laying around. The downed helo’s remaining crew were picked up and on their way out, they counted the dead VC; 37 in all. Their distances from the downed helo were from 3 to about 150 yards; all shot by the crew member with his M1911 .45 ACP. About 80 rounds were fired by Petty Officer R.J. Thomas, a member of the USN Rifle and Pistol Team.

Petty Officer Thomas was recommended for the Congressional Medal of Honor, but by the time the recommendation got all the way up through the chain of command, the recognition was reduced to the Navy Cross.

This incident has been cited this as the only known of example of top-level combat marksmanship since SGT Alvin York’s escapades in WWI.

Submitted by Mark Eberhard-CEO & President
LtCol. USMCR (Ret.)
American Marksman Group
(850) 626-9963
Visit: www.americanmarksman.com

Tell that Squid his 1911 is a 25 yd pistol...

 

[jrfoxx]

And all this time I thought the problem was me, now I know it's my .45

Agreed.But, I heard it was inaccurate after 10 yds, so I thought I was an ace marksman with a super accurate 1911 by hitting in or within a few inches of the bull at 20yds.....there goes my hopes at the olympics.....

I heard a few outright bs statements from the guy who did my OR CHL class, but nothing nearly as bad as all that.He made no wild claims about himself or ANY make/model of gun.Just made a few inaccurate statements about where you can carry, but they would only cause people to not carry a few place where they actually could, so it wasnt really that bad.Had the reverse been true, I would have called him on it for sure, as I'd hate to see someone get locked up because they listened to him.

 

[frankie_the_yankee]

Not uncommon (unfortunately) but not typical either.

I've gone thorugh the class twice. My first time was with a retired Austin PD officer. Good class. Lots of good information. Little or no spurious opinion.

My renewal class was with an poorly-informed opinionated sort who seemed to delight in telling various "stories" that were probably intended to show how clever he was as to the law regarding CHL's, self defense, etc., but in reality only served to display his massive ignorance.

Not only that, but he did a lousy job of running the range during the firing portion of the class. I had to push a fellow student's muzzle down and away from my body as he was trying (with poor success) to figure out how to lock the slide back on his new gun.

 

[Wedge]

My renewal class was with an poorly-informed opinionated sort who seemed to delight in telling various "stories" that were probably intended to show how clever he was as to the law regarding CHL's, self defense, etc., but in reality only served to display his massive ignorance.

Not only that, but he did a lousy job of running the range during the firing portion of the class. I had to push a fellow student's muzzle down and away from my body as he was trying (with poor success) to figure out how to lock the slide back on his new gun.

I have to guess that you had the same class I did.

I took all the stories with a grain of salt (a pound? okay I had a small mining operation going) but at least it was more entertaining than just sitting there...

30 people on the range at once was a little unnerving. Some of the guys shooting I would feel safer IN FRONT of their guns, I was surprised that they were able to score 170 (hitting the 3 ring at 3 yards...)

 

[Greybeard]

Yeah, even at our instructor renewal schools, I've heard and seen some things that make me wonder "How can that guy be teaching???".

And ... ' saw on a "competitor's" web site last week that the new "car carry" law does not allow people without a CHL to carry loaded guns ... :banghead: Hint: He's near Six Flags and web site indicates that everyone needs a Kimber ...

 

[DFW1911]

All,

I took the class at The Bullet Trap in Plano. Their instruction was first rate and the only quasi-commando stories came from the audience:

"If hit, this WILL stop the bad guy - guaranteed."
"I carry a Ma Deuce. All other weapons remain obsolete."
"I CAN take away your weapon before you even hear me, much less see me."

You know the type, there's a few out there! Always good for the entertainment!

Take care,
DFW1911

 

[Wedge]

"I carry a Ma Deuce. All other weapons remain obsolete."

You mean you don't?

 

[nalioth]

This combined with the State's veteran's discount (50%) allows me to obtain my CHL for $70.00

I was under the impression that a recently passed Texas law had waived the licensing fee for veterans (but not the instruction fee). Somebody help me out here...

 

[Ed Ames]

Those instructors aren't always right?

So maybe a 12ga loaded with blanks isn't the ideal home defense weapon? I don't know man...sounds like sour grapes to me. The instructor had credentials from the state -- what do you have????

 

[cyclist]

Our instructor claims heritage from an elite unit of an already elite branch of our armed forces.

Would it be worth the effort to verify his credentials?

 

[Phil DeGraves]

I did a head shot at 80 yards with my Kimber Eclipse. I guess it was accidental...

 

[GBExpat]

"I carry a Ma Deuce. All other weapons remain obsolete."

Hahahaha ... he must have been an extremely LARGE & STRONG fellow ...

 

[GBExpat]

I am surrrre glad that I did not have to attend any instruction course to get my CHL here in VA.

 

[CountGlockula]

Not to be an instigator, but you should've said something before he went on.

 

[wdlsguy]

My employer provides CHL instruction at no cost to it's employee's.

Things could be much, much worse...

 

[The Annoyed Man]

I've heard that the courses taught The Bullet Trap in Plano are good. I took my CHL class at the Bass Pro shop in Grapevine. It was pretty good. There were 3 instructors. One is an ex small town police chief, the second is a pastor and police reservist in that same town, and the third is an old retired gunnery sergeant of the Old Breed.

Ex Chief taught the legal aspects, Pastor taught the ethics, and old Gunny taught the gunfighter attitude part. He mentioned his time in Vietnam a few times, but didn't dwell on it. Gunny also spent a lot of time talking about how armed citizens with CHLs are the first line of defense against domestic terrorism.

I found some of it a little bit hokey, but over all, it was a good class, and I did learn a lot. But since then, I've also joined the TexasCHLforum and learned a lot more there - particularly the finer points of the law, which is hard to fully understand in all its aspects in just one day of class.

 

[The Annoyed Man]

My employer provides CHL instruction at no cost to it's employee's

...and I just happen to be looking for a job. How do I find these folks?

 

[M2 Carbine]

Just because someone completes the Texas DPS instructor course, doesn't mean they know what they are doing or that they aren't pretender.


The 1911 45ACP thing?

In the late 1960's I was a flight instructor in the Army's helicopter flight school at Mineral Wells, TX.

One of my students was a Sergeant just back from Vietnam. He was the most decorated man on post.
I read his Silver Star Commendation. It was amazing. I wish I had written down all the facts but basically what happened was.

He was a M60 door gunner on the Bell H13 helicopter that they were using for observation at the time. (We were still training the students in Hillers, Bells and Hughes, anything we could get our hands on.)

The chopper was shot down and ended up, upside down, in a big rice paddy behind a dike.
The pilot was alive but hurt and pinned in the chopper. The M60 was also jammed in the door frame.
The Sergeant had a 45 and he said he always carried a 30 cal ammo box of 45ACP.

The first time the Sergeant looked over the dike a VC was 7 yards away and the Sergeant shot him.

From then on the VC came across the rice paddy one at a time. I don't remember the body count but it was amazing. The Sergeant killed the furtherest one 97 yards away.

No one could figure out why the VC didn't all rush him except, obviously poor leadership, and they knew there was a M60 on those choppers. Maybe they thought the chopper crew was just playing with them, hoping to get the whole unit out into the open and hit them with the M60.

One of those gun magazine commandos would play hell convincing that Sergeant the 1911 was inaccurate past 25 yards.