No, there's a range from the one extreme to the other, but giving up and just making do should never be the choice. Do something, anything, more than vote and complain. Some can do more than others, but everyone should do something.
A little sympathy for New Yorkers: John Stossel tries to get a carry permit in NYC
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No, there's a range from the one extreme to the other, but giving up and just making do should never be the choice. Do something, anything, more than vote and complain. Some can do more than others, but everyone should do something.
People should keep in mind that NYC has tried to export their brand of rights abuse to the rest of the country and they have had some success. If we just let them go they will always be a thorn in our side. I'm hoping someone will file a lawsuit against their policies in light of Heller. If we just try to move out of every city that passes or tries to pass onerous gun laws we might find after a while that there's no place left to move to. It wasn't so long ago that carrying concealed was illegal everywhere in the US AFAIK. I sure don't want to go back to that.
Giving up and moving out is exactly what the anti-gun folks want us to do. Then they'll have the state to themselves. Then, guess what state the anti's will be going after next? The state that you moved to. Why?......because they'll know that all they have to do is put some pressure on you and, instead of fighting back, you'll simply cut and run.
Anyone who is pro-2A is my ally. It doesn't matter where they're located. The question is not "what are you doing to help?" The question is "what are WE doing to help our allies?"
The Second Amendment doesn't stop at the state line and it has been incorporated, thanks to some folks named McDonald and Heller who decided to fight as a minority against the majority's support for the draconian laws of their locales.
Anyone who is pro-2A is my ally. It doesn't matter where they're located. The question is not "what are you doing to help?" The question is "what are WE doing to help our allies?"
The Second Amendment doesn't stop at the state line and it has been incorporated, thanks to some folks named McDonald and Heller who decided to fight as a minority against the majority's support for the draconian laws of their locales.
Tom609
Member
..and a thank you to you too, jbrown.
Speedo66
Member
I would have to say, tongue in cheek of course, that you must be a designated victim. I lived and worked in NYC for over 65 years, and was never mugged or burglarized.
I can only assume out of towners visiting or living short times in the city, don't know where to stay away from, which most native NY'ers do. The smart ones also develop a very sharp sense of situational awareness, you don't walk down the street with your head up your butt reading a book or looking at a map.
To be honest, I don''t know anyone, or have heard of anyone, who's been victimized as many times as you've been.
Some might also argue that living in NY for just 12 months doesn't make you an "ex-New Yawker".
Speedo66
Member
The funny thing is, most of the complaining about NY and NYC is not done here by the residents, but rather by people living often thousands of miles away. It seems to be good sport to dump on NY at any given opportunity.
Before the SAFE act, NY, outside of NYC, was actually one of the better gun states. No registration of long arms, no ammo restrictions, no purchase cards necessary. But that didn't stop the experts from claiming how horrible it was. Why let facts get in the way?
NYS and several counties have gun associations, and do whatever lobbying they can. There are several lawsuits that have been filed in opposition to the SAFE act.
The other inaccurate theme here is how dangerous NYC is. Again, why let facts get in the way? NYC is one of the safest large cities in the country. Many cities in the so called "free"states are way more dangerous, and have much higher crime rates in all violent crime categories. But that doesn't stop the continuous diatribe about how dangerous NYC is.
I also get a kick out of how many allegedly left to preserve their gun rights. If you were doing well, making a good living, I'd venture to say very few would voluntarily leave. Sure, some may have left for that reason, but I'm thinking maybe some just weren't making it, but pointing fingers at NY is so much easier than admitting failure.
If it sounds like I'm tired of the wholesale dumping on NY, you'd be right. I no longer live there, but just find the prevailing anti NY attitude here obnoxious.
People here love to give their folksy parental anecdotes. Well, I'll give you one my mother used to say: if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all. Not trying to stifle anyone, but enough is enough.
At one time NYC was definitely a bad place to live if you didn't want to be mugged. That changed a great deal when Mayor Giuliani started prosecuting even minor crimes. A greater police presence and a sense that laws were being enforced led to more respect for the law and fear of the consequences of breaking the law. Of course it was also about the same time as the crime rate was dropping nationally due to the gang conference between the Crips and the Bloods following the LA Riots and the "Why can't we just get along?" politics of riot victim Rodney King. It didn't hurt that Giuliani had prosecuted the mob family bosses in NYC and had prosecuted the insider trading cases of Michael Milken and Ivan Boesky. He was seen as a law and order type guy who was willing to go the mat to end crime and it paid off for NYC when he instituted his policies.
Others would (and still are) argue that his policies went too far. His stop and frisk policy has led to a lot of police abuse especially for people with pot in their pockets. It's a complicated thing with good and bad on both sides but there is such a thing as going too far.
As for people putting down NYC just chalk that up to the fact the New Yorkers have put down everyone else for 150 years. There has been a big undercurrent of regional prejudice coming out of NYC since the Civil War and before. The Yellow Journalism era was especially bad. People don't forget that it was New Yorkers that created the mythology of the "hillbilly" and the "redneck". Those NYC types have done great damage to a lot of people with such things.
I've never been to NYC and don't plan to go ever. Don't see any point in it myself. I happen to think that where I live is a lot closer to paradise than the concrete jungle. I have no idea what life is really like there. I just know why people have a grudge against New York types. Just to be honest I'd feel naked without my handgun in a place like that. It isn't like the police are actually going to protect you. Prosecuting someone after they kill you isn't my idea of protection whether it's in NYC or Timbuktu. I prefer to do my own protection thank you.
Others would (and still are) argue that his policies went too far. His stop and frisk policy has led to a lot of police abuse especially for people with pot in their pockets. It's a complicated thing with good and bad on both sides but there is such a thing as going too far.
As for people putting down NYC just chalk that up to the fact the New Yorkers have put down everyone else for 150 years. There has been a big undercurrent of regional prejudice coming out of NYC since the Civil War and before. The Yellow Journalism era was especially bad. People don't forget that it was New Yorkers that created the mythology of the "hillbilly" and the "redneck". Those NYC types have done great damage to a lot of people with such things.
I've never been to NYC and don't plan to go ever. Don't see any point in it myself. I happen to think that where I live is a lot closer to paradise than the concrete jungle. I have no idea what life is really like there. I just know why people have a grudge against New York types. Just to be honest I'd feel naked without my handgun in a place like that. It isn't like the police are actually going to protect you. Prosecuting someone after they kill you isn't my idea of protection whether it's in NYC or Timbuktu. I prefer to do my own protection thank you.
jobu07
Contributing Member
Speedo, I love upstate as much as the next guy. But I finally threw in the towel and left.
Upstate is a lot more gun friendly than the rest of the state. I held my Steuben County non-restricted permit proudly. But you got across the border to PA and into the rest of America and people look at you funny when you say un-restricted. Why do we need a permission slip to own handguns in NYS?
And you're right, there are no purchase permits needed for long guns. But let's not forget about the NYS AWB that mirrors the old, now defunct, federal AWB. NYS hasn't been truly gun friendly for a LONG time, and that's upstate included. Even though upstate is a very gun friendly culture, legally upstaters can't truly enjoy what everyone else can in America.
And you're right, there are several counties and state associations filing challenges to the SAFE Act. But we all know the court in Rochester where this was filed will never overturn it. The court in Rochester desperately wants to be viewed as legitimate to their peers downstate, and not as some country bumpkins. But then again, that plays nicely into what CeeZee mentions about the origins of that slang. It did start in NYC and it continues out of NYC.
Upstate NY is a gorgeous beautiful place. Every terrain you can imagine, the Finger Lakes, the Great Lakes, vast rural expanse, modest urban areas, amazing hunting, and what used to be some terrific gun shows. It is really a shame what they did to NYS. Greedy anti-freedom politicians have ruined what used to be a beautiful section of the country.
Upstate is a lot more gun friendly than the rest of the state. I held my Steuben County non-restricted permit proudly. But you got across the border to PA and into the rest of America and people look at you funny when you say un-restricted. Why do we need a permission slip to own handguns in NYS?
And you're right, there are no purchase permits needed for long guns. But let's not forget about the NYS AWB that mirrors the old, now defunct, federal AWB. NYS hasn't been truly gun friendly for a LONG time, and that's upstate included. Even though upstate is a very gun friendly culture, legally upstaters can't truly enjoy what everyone else can in America.
And you're right, there are several counties and state associations filing challenges to the SAFE Act. But we all know the court in Rochester where this was filed will never overturn it. The court in Rochester desperately wants to be viewed as legitimate to their peers downstate, and not as some country bumpkins. But then again, that plays nicely into what CeeZee mentions about the origins of that slang. It did start in NYC and it continues out of NYC.
Upstate NY is a gorgeous beautiful place. Every terrain you can imagine, the Finger Lakes, the Great Lakes, vast rural expanse, modest urban areas, amazing hunting, and what used to be some terrific gun shows. It is really a shame what they did to NYS. Greedy anti-freedom politicians have ruined what used to be a beautiful section of the country.
MaterDei
Member
Here is a link to the entire episode. I love his program.
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2472213347001/war-against-the-little-guy/?playlist_id=1794596212001
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2472213347001/war-against-the-little-guy/?playlist_id=1794596212001
danez71
Member
Ditto for CA. Mass and a couple others too.
Which is why I said :
It seems that some try to make themselves feel better by tearing others down.
Conversely, some see the benefits for all by lending support to others.
we are not amused
Member
Good to see a corrupt politician get his just rewards!
Dean Weingarten
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The way to treat scofflaw places like NYC is national CCW Reciprocity
The votes are there to do it. With some type of concealed carry in all 50 states, It is the Senate and the President that are obstructing it. Make it legal for anyone that can legally carry in their own state to carry in all U.S. territories, and NYC will not matter much.
Hard to believe that the citizens will let their own rights be denied when people outside the jurisdiction will have their second amendment rights respected... but that may be what will happen.
The last time this was voted on, the Senate had 56 votes in favor of it. That was a couple of months ago.
The votes are there to do it. With some type of concealed carry in all 50 states, It is the Senate and the President that are obstructing it. Make it legal for anyone that can legally carry in their own state to carry in all U.S. territories, and NYC will not matter much.
Hard to believe that the citizens will let their own rights be denied when people outside the jurisdiction will have their second amendment rights respected... but that may be what will happen.
The last time this was voted on, the Senate had 56 votes in favor of it. That was a couple of months ago.
DeadMoneyDrew
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Did anybody ever find a link to the second half of this report? The above link takes me to a full episode of War on the Little Guy, but it doesn't include anything about firearms.
GoWolfpack
Member
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50 state CCW enforced by federal law tramples on the second amendment just like the may-issue arbitrary denials of local sheriffs does.
The best thing about allowing states to set their own laws is it allows the citizenry to vote with their feet and leave if a state ignores the will of its citizens.
Speedo66
Member
Would you mind quoting a source for NYC people starting the use of "redneck"? Wiki says it started as a union thing in coal country.
Also says "hillbilly" was in use in other parts of the country long before the "NY Journal" first used it in print.
But why let facts get in the way?
Big_John1961
Member
Stossel is one of the few prominent news figures with any kind of conservative leanings. I enjoy all his stuff, because he sure as hell isn't afraid to ask the tough questions.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
The way to treat them is for their own citizens to stand up and put the smack-down on their government for infringing their rights.
I'm not a resident of New York...what right do I have to come in and tell them how to handle their business? Isn't this what many of us get peeved about when people from other states (such as Bloomberg and the recalls in Colorado) get involved in their local politics? Is this not the same type of concern between rural and urban populations, politically?
I grant you that sometimes coordinated efforts from some groups are necessary to counter those of another group, though.
Much as the child in me likes the concept of a national CCW Reciprocitcy, this is still advocating the placement of "infringements" on our Second Amendment right.
Vern Humphrey
Member
I don't feel sorry for the people of New York. They elected the bozos that created this mess, and if they don't like it the resulting mess, they need to get off their butts and vote them out.
SleazyRider
Member
I'll do it, by golly! Thanks for the insight!
Tom609
Member
deleted
danez71
Member
:banghead:
Rather than directly reply to such a meaningless post, I'll just quote a Mod from page 2.
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