A most unlikely gun for a modern riot

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gspn

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I was reading today about the latest "controversy" in Baltimore. There was an initial report that police had shot an unarmed man as he was running away. There is even a video with a very angry eye-witness that swears the man had no gun, and that she saw the police shoot him in the back.

In reality, the police shot nobody. The eye witness was totally wrong. The guy who was running from the police tossed his gun away, and when it hit the ground it went off.

I was very surprised when they listed the gun...a Ruger Blackhawk in .357!

A single action revolver would have been near the bottom of my "guess list" if I had to speculate as to what type of gun would be thrown out by a big-city crook running from the police.

Now I have to speculate...was it the "old" style Blackhawk? Did he not know to leave one cylinder empty? I'm left to wonder... :D

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/baltimore-police-charge-man-with-discharging-gun-at-volatile-corner/2015/05/05/bb439fd2-f369-11e4-b2f3-af5479e6bbdd_story.html
 
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You gotta take whatever you can steal in the house you're turning over in the thug world.
 
Whatever it was, I don't think it would have fired unless a round was under the hammer.

I was also surprised to see that gun.
 
moxie said:
Whatever it was, I don't think it would have fired unless a round was under the hammer.
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Very true! I poorly phrased my reference to the "old model" blackhawk and the need to leave one chamber empty so as to avoid an unintentional discharge.
 
Yeah, the blackhawk is a bit of a surprise to me too.

Being as the protesters tend to be in the poorest of neighborhoods, I would expect to see the least valuable guns.

I'm thinking Jennings, Bryco, or at best a tec-9.

That's a "Pop Pop Jam" at best.

Now, a real Ruger pistol in .357 mag? Scary stuff, that. You could actually hurt somebody with that!

And what an awesome pistol! It managed to shoot the bad guy all by it's self!
 
So Senators are visiting repeat criminals to check on how they are doing?.....

hrmm...i wonder how many officers shes visited in the hospital.....?
 
Well I figure it this way, any gun is better than no gun and with that in mind if you can't be with the gun you love then love the gun you're with. :)

Ron
 
Being as the protesters tend to be in the poorest of neighborhoods, I would expect to see the least valuable guns.
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There's a lot more assumption in that statement than fact.

While the locals who live in the neighborhood may be poor, their choice of weapons doesn't seem to be influenced by the lack of disposable income. Guns tend to be acquired on the basis of their status - not MSRP. Thieves tend to steal nice guns, not junk - why choose to get a mouse gun to inflate your reputation or credibility? Nice guns are the ones that end up in the "aftermarket" for sale.

As for "protesters," let's not conflate those who live in the neighborhood with activists bussed in from a hundred miles away who are there to create civil disobedience. And in the case of Baltimore, there were also rumors that the local gangs made a pact to disregard boundaries in a larger attempt to exploit looting wherever it came up.

Let's not paint everyone with the same brush, there are a lot of different agendas involved in civil unrest.
 
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The recent killing of a NYPD Officer revieled the pistol that he was killed with came from a burglary of a LGS in Georgia.
I don't think it matters where or how they obtain the guns, afterall we are talking about a life of crime here. The lower you are on the totem pole the fewer choices you will have getting a stolen gun.
I'm just very happy this didn't meet the inital narative that the LEO had shot the crimminal in the back.
Still waiting for the DA to come out and announce his charges and those who initally said they saw the LEO shoot him in the back.
 
As for "protesters," let's not conflate those who live in the neighborhood with activists bussed in from a hundred miles away who are there to create civil disobedience. And in the case of Baltimore, there were also rumors that the local gangs made a pact to disregard boundaries in a larger attempt to exploit looting wherever it came up.
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Pretty much every riot is blamed on people from out of town, because of poverty, slavery, and racism, but I'm not convinced. Businesses and employers are burned out, to protest unemployment by angry youth , overcome by rage while running out of liquor stores with an armload of bottels while grinnning ear to ear. If you welcome Sharpton into your neighborhood, your welcoming his professional rioter entourage. I'm trying to think of all those riots in working middle class neighborhoods, or the snooty upperclass, and I got nothing. I feel most bad for the locals who are decent, working, non-rioting people, but I'm not convinced that would be all of them.
 
Averageman said:
The recent killing of a NYPD Officer revieled the pistol that he was killed with came from a burglary of a LGS in Georgia.
I don't think it matters where or how they obtain the guns, after all we are talking about a life of crime here. The lower you are on the totem pole the fewer choices you will have getting a stolen gun.
I'm just very happy this didn't meet the inital narative that the LEO had shot the crimminal in the back.
Still waiting for the DA to come out and announce his charges and those who initally said they saw the LEO shoot him in the back.
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Actually, I tend to disagree with how the gun is obtained as I see it as mattering and mattering quite a bit and here is why. There has always been a very big push to require background checks on all gun transfers. The target is private sales, like many at gun shows or those using listings like ArmsList online. If I as a gun owner choose to transfer a gun to my brother who I know is not under any gun disability should I need to have the transfer run through a dealer?

Most of the guns used in crimes are stolen guns. No legislation is going to prevent that. That has always been my main argument when it comes to legislation requiring background checks on every gun transfer.

Just My Take....
Ron
 
I remember a local sheriff's department had a display of street weapons confiscated: a couple of Commando Arms tommy gun replicas, but a lot of single shot .22 rifles and shotguns hacked-off "pirate pistol" style, and small cheap pocket pistols. Real street criminals are not as well armed as their TV or movie counterparts. It's whatever can be stolen from homes, or what gets sold at a bar for quick cash. Usually nothing special.


I found this tidbit about Maryland state Sen. Catherine E. Pugh (D) interesting:

Pugh blamed the anger that followed Tucker’s arrest on Monday on outsiders who she said “agitated” the crowd. “The people in that community just want their community back,” Pugh said. “I loved the way the police came in, protected the scene, and then left very quickly. I thought it was very appropriately handled. We had outsiders trying to influence the mood of the crowd. Baltimore cares about its community, and wants it to return to normal.”

-- Peter Hermann, "Baltimore police charge man with discharging gun at volatile corner", Washington Post, 5 May 2015.
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I suspect the people who burned businesses in Ferguson MO were not Ferguson residents, either, but outside agitators: Reuters had an article about one of the businesses that wasn't burned: a white-owned service station protected by armed black Ferguson men who were former employees and who respected the owner.
 
Had a case once where a young man burglarized a house and stole a shotgun. He hacksaw'd down the barrels and the stock to make a "handgun". He was arrested holding up locals on the street with it, getting $5-10 or so at a time.

I personally informed him the Model 21 Winchester he cut up could have been sold for thou$ands, and that he was a complete failure as a criminal. :neener:

The poor owner saw his gun at trial and almost cried.
 
While certainly questionable as a source, it was reported from Ferguson that protestors arrested a few days after the riots started were from NY state, and not locals.

They very much were being bused in with an agenda. The locals had their moment of outrage, but when it goes on and on, it has to be provoked, encouraged, and supported from outside. Anyone schooled in the finer arts of insurrection and handling it is aware of the techniques.

With that in mind, out of town tour buses arriving near areas of unrest are now part of the overall picture. If the owners become aware of their financial risk in bringing them onto the national stage, then they will be less likely to do so.

There are countermeasures that the local authorities can take to suppress violence being imported into the community. Impound the buses at every opportunity. We aren't talking a blue hair express taking seniors to the nearest casino.

Secondly, what are WE doing to prevent seeing our guns show up on national TV being used hundreds of miles away in criminal activity? Guns are stolen from houses and parked cars - thieves prefer non violent opportunities to steal them. Somebody is discovering where they are because the owner is exposing them to scrutiny by others.

They can't steal what they don't know about or is kept secure beyond their means. Somebody is eventually going to be prosecuted for a lack of due diligence in securing them. It may not be "right," but if we do see anti gunners not getting their way with background checks, they will likely take up that as a part of their future agenda.
 
They can't steal what they don't know about or is kept secure beyond their means. Somebody is eventually going to be prosecuted for a lack of due diligence in securing them. It may not be "right," but if we do see anti gunners not getting their way with background checks, they will likely take up that as a part of their future agenda.
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im willing to bet that most guns your average theif comes across are by accident...i doubt they are targeted in the majority of cases.

most likely a thief is in for a smash and grab, looking for cash, electronics, jewlery, ect.....and stumbles across a gun.....i doubt it has much to do with the owner "showboating" them

as for not properly securing your firearms.........well, gun safes are not as safe as many people think they are......give me a crow-bar and a mallet and i can break into most safes in short order.......hell, i may even get 2 other guys and just carry the safe out the door.
 
SPEEDO 66 - "Had a case once where a young man burglarized a house and stole a shotgun. He hacksaw'd down the barrels and the stock to make a "handgun". He was arrested holding up locals on the street with it, getting $5-10 or so at a time.

I personally informed him the Model 21 Winchester he cut up could have been sold for thou$ands, and that he was a complete failure as a criminal.

The poor owner saw his gun at trial and almost cried. "
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When I lived in Los Angeles, an officer I knew showed me a "rifle" that was in the Forensics Lab for testing. It had been taken from a street thug who'd stolen it. He'd cut the barrel down to the end of the fore end and the butt off at the pistol grip.

It was a once-beautiful Weatherby Mark 5 .300 Weth. Magnum.

I told my friend I'd surely liked to have seen the thug shoot that "handgun." :eek:

L.W.
 
There is an apocryphal story of a guy who held up a bank with a 1911. When caught, it was discovered it was made by Singer. The WWII 1911s manufactured by Singer of sewing machine fame are the rarest, worth many times his "haul" from the robbery. :D
 
Gun thieves aren't breaking into houses with crowbars to jack your safe - unless they know for a fact it's there and easy pickings.

Most saw or knew you had guns loose in the house and were very poor at securing them. Entirely why you were targeted. They take the 1911 you left in the door pocket of your 3/4 ton truck when you leave it unattended in a lot. They get into your garage to steal the tools in the huge roll around cabinet you display on Saturday mornings when the garage door is left open for them to see - with your $1,500 safe next to it. Ding Ding Ding this guy has guns and there's probably one next to the bed.

We post about it all the time. It's a quick haul to grab the jewelry box, open a few dresser drawers or tables, hit the closet for cameras, grab a laptop and boogey.

Someone financing their meth habit who was in the neighborhood - and he's there because the neighborhood looks as if there's a lot of disposable cash.

We aren't talking someone casing a clapped out Neon with a wing on the trunk. More like a 3/4 ton diesel with 20" rims. If you have $2000 to blow on wheels and deer hunting stickers on the back glass, you have a gun in it.

No crowbar necessary. it just needs an opportunity where it's left unattended for an hour.

Easy peasey. People are so naïve.
 
Most of us live in an entirely different world than the area in Baltimore where the riots occurred. Our choices are different. Most of us never come into contact with a stolen gun. When we want a gun, we go to the gun store, or buy FTF from somebody that usually appears similar to us. We don't particularly have a big issue filling out the 4473 or having the NICs check done on us. But we prefer not to have the paperwork done overall if there is another option.

It would have to be a special gun for me to consider purchase from a person who appears to be a street thug.

No one should believe any details in news reports.
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I want to believe that the reporting is done honorably and the facts are correct. But I know this is not always the case.
 
The only handguns that would suprise me in that type of situation are ones in rare caliabers. Any gun can be stolen, but I don't see criminals going on line to hunt down .32 rim fire and other obsolete stuff.

I recently watched a documentary on Netflix where a female "journalist" said she was going to try to get a gun like a criminal would. So she went to gun dealers and essentially told them she was a straw purchaser, they all sent her walking, Then she went on line and figured out she couldn't buy a gun on line and have it shipped to her, then she went to a gun show and finally, after being turned away from every table she went to, she decided to buy from and individual. After a few people told her to hit the road because she was acting like a crazy woman, someone finally sold her a gun.

Thing is, she still didn't get a gun like a criminal does, they steal them or buy them from someone else who stole them........they're criminals, that's what they do for a living!

Sorry rant over.:uhoh:
 
Criminals generally know if a gun is hot. This woman did not buy as a criminal would. But to her, buying face to face is in fact how a criminal would purchase a gun (rather than steal one).
 
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