A pox on both their parties

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xd9fan

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Sunday, May 6, 2007

A pox on both their parties
I'm leaving the GOP, but not for the Democrats

By STEVEN GREENHUT
Senior editorial writer and columnist

Last weekend, I announced my not-so-Earth-shattering decision to leave the Republican Party. In the era of George W. Bush, Rudy Giuliani, John McCain and Arnold Schwarzenegger, I simply have had enough. While I've been pleased by the correspondence I've received, most of it from other disaffected Republicans who are sick of the party's abandonment of its stated "liberty" principles, I've left some readers confused about where my allegiances now lie.

Here's my chance to elaborate a little further.

The country has devolved so much into a two-party system that many folks believe that if you abandon one party, you must necessarily take up common cause with the other one. Yet if a restaurant gives you a choice between eating food laced with rat poison or with arsenic, you might want to eat somewhere else, even if it's a long drive until the next rest stop and even if the new restaurant hasn't gotten great reviews.

So ... no, I have not become a Democrat. I haven't criticized Democrats too much in recent months, mainly because it's so pointless.

Let me reiterate the obvious reasons why I will not return to the party of my youth. It's long been clear to believers in free markets and limited government that the Democratic Party is committed mostly to European-style socialism. Ever fearful of the free market and hostile to the free choices individuals would make if left on their own (with the sole exception being what they call "reproductive freedom"), the Democrats ceaselessly advocate for more government control of the economy, more far-reaching cradle-to-grave social programs – never mind that such programs can't sustain themselves over the long term, and that government "services" are notoriously wretched compared with those offered by market-based companies in a competitive environment.

Listen to the Democratic presidential candidates argue over who proposes the most gigantic government-controlled health care system, with only one candidate (John Edwards) honest enough to admit such a scheme will require massive tax increases. Being a Democratic candidate means that good intentions are more important than rigorous analysis. The party expresses one constant concern: how to get "greedy" working stiffs to shift more of their income to the government sector. As that sector has gotten bigger, with more than half of all Americans receiving support from government or working directly for some agency, it's become easier to call for more government.

This "we know best" attitude also results in the party's constant embrace of the Nanny State – the term applied to the endless laundry list of petty rules involving even our most personal choices. Because bans on, say, smoking at beaches or driving without seat belts or spanking children are for our "own good," a lot of folks forget that if you pass the above-mentioned rules, then you need lots of cops to arrest smokers, lots of jails in which to put non-seatbelt-wearers and lots of foster homes in which to put the spanked kids rescued from their "abusive" parents. The Nanny State squelches freedom.

I'm convinced that if many Dems had their way, there would be virtually no area of life beyond their prying eyes, no source of income beyond their prying hands (hence their hostility to property rights), no place where we could retreat to get away from their unceasing desire to regulate us, tax us, prod us, improve us, instruct us, educate us and control us. And, of course, there's nothing Dems love more than a good moral crusade (i.e., global warming) to bludgeon the rest of us into giving them more money and power.

That's why I stuck so long with the Republican Party, seeing it as – in a two-party system – the only counterbalance to the above-outlined lunacy. But the GOP has become just like the Democrats in pandering to special interest groups, advocating for large government, supporting new entitlements and social programs. Sure, Republican socialism goes only two-thirds as far as Democratic socialism. And, sure, Republicans are half-hearted about the new wasteful domestic programs they propose. But Republicans have their own agenda that truly excites them. It's even more expensive than the Democratic agenda, in terms of dollars and liberty.

Republicans seem to unite on one thing: support for war. Whenever America attacks a nation – an increasingly common phenomenon, under either party's watch – Republicans are in the front row, cheering. Never mind that the founders opposed a foreign policy devoted to slaying foreign dragons.

Republicans are the more zealous of the two parties about building up a security state with unbridled abilities to monitor and arrest people. Republicans, despite their blather about limited government, are unyielding in their support for government police agencies at all levels. They seem genuinely unconcerned about police abuses, government secrecy (unless practiced by a Democratic administration) and due process. To them, those are silly fixations of liberal judges. Republicans are so enamored of the "war on drugs" that they mostly oppose even the most modest reforms – i.e., allowing sick people to smoke medical marijuana, allowing farmers to grow industrial hemp, focusing on treatment of drug-using offenders rather than hard prison time.

Many Republicans take an excessively punitive approach to life. They embrace the idea that everyone in prison is a hardened criminal, and continually pass new laws to ratchet up penalties for every offense imaginable. Hey, I'm all for keeping the really bad guys locked up, but the pendulum has swung too far in the "throw away the key" direction. Yet Republicans view any mention of injustices in our criminal justice system as tantamount to being "pro-criminal," and they seem perfectly happy just building more prisons to deal with the problem.

At the local level, by the way, Republican politicians have been just as hostile to property rights as Democrats as they seek to control everything that goes on within "their" city.

There are great people in both parties, and some good ideas that come from members of those parties. But, in general, I'd say a pox on both houses.

Now, for the answer to the question that most people have asked me: What party am I joining? Nothing wrong with registering as "Decline to State" and avoiding any new entangling alliances. But I'll hang around the GOP long enough to vote in the Republican primary for Rep. Ron Paul, the only consistent defender of freedom in Congress. Then I'll probably re-register as a big "L" Libertarian, if they don't mind having me. I've got some issues with the Libertarian Party – i.e., I wish it were more serious about fielding winnable candidates in local races, and it has sported some weird candidates on the ballot at times. But it's filled with good, albeit cantankerous folks who love freedom. So I should fit in pretty well.

Contact the writer: 714-796-7823 or sgreenhut @ocregister.com

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/opinion/columns/article_1681184.php
 
All in all I'd have to say this guy has pretty much described our dilemna quite well. The real trick is finding a way to undo all the damage.
 
Too bad Libertarians have it wrong on immigration.

I am a member of the LP, and there has been some infighting about this recently. The national party seems to have abandoned the open borders and now advocate a more moderate 'fair entry', but with total security (no desert crossings) and background checks. From their website:

The Issue: Our borders are currently neither open, closed, nor secure.

Aint that the truth.

And:
Solutions: Borders will be secure, with free entry to those who have demonstrated compliance with certain requirements. The terms and conditions of entry into the United States must be simple and clearly spelled out. Documenting the entry of individuals must be restricted to screening for criminal background and threats to public health and national security.

Sounds more reasonable to me. I am more hard line on it myself, but the change in policy reflects that the LP's membership base have mostly wanted a change on this for awhile.
 
Too bad Libertarians have it wrong on immigration.
Don't forget the libertarian one is often one of practicality as much as anything. Do you honestly think you can really secure the border if you wanted to?
 
Don't forget the libertarian one is often one of practicality as much as anything. Do you honestly think you can really secure the border if you wanted to?

See my above post. Their policy has changed since the 1990s.
 
Do you honestly think you can really secure the border if you wanted to?

Of course we can. It might take massive amounts of capital, it might not. It might take a year, it might take ten. But we could secure our borders completely if we chose to. If we can go to the moon we can secure our borders. The question is first of all...do we as a nation have the political fortitude to do so. I doubt it. The second question is really a matter of logistics. How much do you want to spend before the return on the dollar in terms of security becomes too small to make it worth spending. Securing our borders as a physical accomplishment is a far easier and simpler task than generating the political and societal impetus to make it happen.
 
Well if they have changed their immigration policy, then they are American's party.

btw, it doesn't matter if we can completely close the borders, so every foreign national must use the appropriate customs crossing. What matters is that every nation has a sovereign right to control entry into their nation. This is fundamental to 'nationhood,' and to the idea of private property also.

So do I think we can actually keep out the illegals? No. But does that mean we should completely abandon the very notion of borders? No.

A better stance on immigration was what the Libertarians needed, hopefully it trickles down from the national to local level... and hopefully it is sincere.
 
-----quote--------
Too bad Libertarians have it wrong on immigration.
------------------

This is ultimately the problem with the libertarians. Not necessarily immigration per se, but rather, the "everything but..." syndrome.

Most people generally are willing to respect the freedoms of other people, but most everyone also has their own one or two "hot button" issues where they really want the government to do something about what they perceive to be a problem.

Therefore, if you make a list of 10 major policy issues, and the libertarian position on all of them is "let everyone do whatever they want," most people will agree with the libertarians on 6 or 8 of those issues. However, just about everyone will have 2 to 4 out of 10 where they just can't tolerate nonintervention. And unfortunately, more people are highly motivated about their issues where they want government intervention than they are about their issues where they want their liberty.

And that's the "everything but..." syndrome. "I agree with the Libertarians on everything but X, and X is so important to me that I can't give up on it."

That's why I don't think the psychology of the American voter will ever turn out in large numbers for the Libertarians. The pro-life people really, really want the government to stop abortions. The anti-capitalists really, really want the government to control the economy and protect people from market forces. Lots of people really, really want the government to provide health care for them. Whatever the issue is, just about everyone has at least one or two things that they really, really want the government to do for them - and for most people, those issues are too intense for them to "let go" and adopt a purely libertarian philosophy.

It's a mistake anyway to think that a successful political party is going to be based on consistent adherence to a single overriding philosophy. Successful political parties craft their platforms to appeal to the largest slice of the electorate they can; to generate a platform which will draw in as many voters as possible without too violently agitating the opposition (increasing opposition turnout is not a good thing).

By insisting on single-minded adherence to a philosophy, the Libertarians are stuck with a platform that is guaranteed to alienate almost everyone on at least one or two major issues, and only generate strong appeal to people who are highly committed to abstract philosophical principles. That is not a formula for winning elections.
 
Even if the LP still had the wide-open-borders policy, would it really be wrong? Assuming one could wave a magic wand and have a Libertarian President and supermajority in Congress; the subsequent gutting of all the welfare-type programs would surely do more to dissuade illegal aliens from sneaking in to soak up tax dollars more than any border security, no? Those that still decided to come would, in theory, have to contribute to society just like everyone else. And they might just be less inclined to commit crimes and stuff anyway knowing we all had full-autos and grenade launchers after the NFA was repealed. ;)

But we'll never have a Libertarian government anyway, so that's just wishful thinking. I guess in the end it just boils down to whether we'd rather have our guns grabbed, and the rest of our freedoms taken by Giuliani or Hillary..
 
Hey, looks like we're gonna have Hillary, because everyone who doesn't want her to be president is gonna vote third party.

Please dont use that old scare tactic. The Democrats did this to Green supporters in 2004. I doubt I will vote party-line this time anyway.
 
Those who have actually watched Congressional proceedings re gun control or pro-gun bills probably have a better sense of gratitude for GOP supporters. This fellow made no mention of RKBA even being an issue. He just wanted to smugly declare himself special. In my opinion, he just moved to a parallel universe, where he doesn't need to deal with the realities of politics and actual government...a place where all sorts of fantasies can be discussed without being concerned about implementation.
 
Since the LP immigration change, my intent is identical to Mr. Greenhut after the party nomination is through. The LP is gaining enough momentum now from both ex-Dems and ex-Reps to be viable in local elections (even if they're just sponsoring Republicans with libertarian values). It might take a while, but it's better to get started now than to wait until we no longer can, and the momentum of the Two Parties reaches critical (if it hasn't already - we'll see).
 
And that's the "everything but..." syndrome. "I agree with the Libertarians on everything but X, and X is so important to me that I can't give up on it."

That's why I don't think the psychology of the American voter will ever turn out in large numbers for the Libertarians.

That's where a "reasonable" agenda comes into play. You can't have absolute liberty, and pretending such is foolhardy and childish. You can, however, try and balance liberty with security (the hopeful intent of government of our government). The guidelines to establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, and promote the general welfare are all listed prior to the securing of liberty's blessings in the Constitution, and liberty is pretty meaningless if you haven't those other things to some degree.

So, liberty with an asterisk is what we have to live with. It's what we've already got, so ceding that point isn't all that difficult; the idea is to limit and optimize those existing programs, cut away as much pork as possible to encourage liberty and self-reliance, while decreasing the actual size of the government.

Cut away, but don't destroy, social programs and hand-outs. Decrease taxes and move government employees over to contractors, and let contractors find work elsewhere. Do it gradually so as to not disrupt the country economically. It WILL take a long time to do, as it's taken a long time to build up to its current level of obesity.

But don't get rid of the most base level of social protections: it's just as asinine to suggest getting rid of social programs and get rid of all police (as opposed to SWAT teams with tanks) as it is to suggest we get rid of our military in entirety, because it would be drastically disadvantageous and disastrous to the country to suggest such a thing. Maybe one day it will be possible and therefore reasonable to make such suggestions, but today it is akin to the many Marxist ideals which completely ignore the state of man and that of our country.
 
The LP is gaining enough momentum now from both ex-Dems and ex-Reps to be viable in local elections (even if they're just sponsoring Republicans with libertarian values).

As you said parenthetically, libertarianism getting some mention is not the same thing as "the LP gaining momentum". Some insisting upon more conservative, back-to-basics Republicans is not the same thing as a big break for the LP. Part of being conservative in any true sense is avoiding giving much thought to third party alternatives. The LP as a fringe movement is more radical than conservative.
 
It doesn't have to be this way. Right now we have the chance to vote Libertarian while beating out Hillary and Rudy because there's a Libertarian running for the Republican nomination.
 
I guess what I'm saying is, conservatives could take over the Libertarian party from the nutters who dominated it until recently - and it does appear as if this is happening to some small degree. There are enough conservatives on both sides of the isle and amongst the non-voting populace at this point in the further growth of the Two Party Socialists for it to be a tenable possibility.

As for being more radical than conservative, I'll take it over the wanton and morally despicable fear mongering about the next Democrat candidate and this-or-that measure. Aggressive ideologies are the only ones which any headway, anywhere. "Playing nice", compromising, and not using hard words won't take one for the win, but that's what the Republicans have been doing for the last 20 years; it'll just delay the inevitable to a point where nobody notices or cares about the rate of decline: "It ain't so bad." Furthermore, the Republican party has steadily become more like the Democrat party in the meantime. Bill Clinton was more fiscally and socially conservative than G W Bush, for cryin' out loud!

Part of being conservative in any true sense is avoiding giving much thought to third party alternatives.

What? That's nonsense. If you were a dairy farmer having to milk 10 cows, would you milk the 10th after completing the 9, if it turned out to be a bull instead of a cow? No, you wouldn't - but that's what you're suggesting with this statement.
 
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It doesn't have to be this way. Right now we have the chance to vote Libertarian while beating out Hillary and Rudy because there's a Libertarian running for the Republican nomination.

Your capital "L" is why I am not going to vote for him, although I must say that it depends upon the alternatives. I think when the dust settles and early candidates burn out, it will be Newt Gingrich. Despite his marital issues, he is best equipped to satisfy both church people and secular conservatives. That leaves him dangerous just like all the others.
 
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