A question about snake shot.

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Kuyong_Chuin

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While going through some old shells we have here at the house I ran across a 45 auto round that had a no bullet but a piece of thin wax coated cardboard holding in the powder. I ask Dad what it was because it was in his shells. He said it was some rat shot shells they made up from some 45 ammo when he was on the ship in the Navy to kill rats that got in the holds. Well that got me thinking, why couldn't you take some 10mm cases load it with 5.0 grains of Longshot which is the starting load for a 200 grain bullet in a 40 S&W, place a couple of pieces of 0.022 inch card stock the size of the case and put it on top of the powder, then weigh out 200 grains of #12 shot, from my math should be about 1050 shot, place another piece of card stock on top of the shot. Then roll crimp the case and then melt a drop of wax on top of the card stock as moisture sealer and be able to fire it in a 40 S&W. Would probably be a better snake shot than the CCI version for the 40 S&W, plus cheaper and easier to make than to finding the factory ones. Using the 10mm case will give you a little more room for the shot while still keeping the OAL under the max shell length for a 40. So anyone know if this would work or ever tried it? It is just an idea I had due to having a hard time finding the CCI shot shells locally sometimes. Right now I have a box but the rattlers are getting bad out here as of late.
 
Sounds like an interesting experiment, though #12 shot seems a bit on the small side for a rattlesnake.
 
I'd think you could experiment and make shotshells for pretty much any handgun.
One thing - you don't need to use a full power powder charge. Just get the shot up to a high enough velocity to punch through a snake and you're doing fine.

FWIW, .22 shotshells are loaded with #12 shot. We had about a pound of it around and used it in some .38 Special shotshells, figuring that if it works in .22 shells, three times as much in .38 shell should be even better. It's worked fine... but we don't take them too seriously. If they work out to 10' for us, they're doing what we need out of them. You could also use a larger shot size if you can find it or just cannibalize an old shotgun shell if you want to experiment.
 
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TooManyToys said:
Sounds like an interesting experiment, though #12 shot seems a bit on the small side for a rattlesnake.
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It might be, I just picked #12 shot because 1 once of shot is equal to 2300 shot which is 437.5 grains which works out to about 1050 shot for 200 grains worth. With that much shot it would be hard to miss at less that 10 ft. You could use larger shot I guess as long as to keep the total grains of the shot and the starting load equal to the grain bullet and starting load of your powder for that grain bullet. But less shot make more of a chance to miss.

I'd think you could experiment and make shotshells for pretty much any handgun.
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I figured as much but, the main question would be using 10mm cases in a 40S&W gun.
 
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The smaller the shot, the quicker it looses energy ( read ability to penatrate tough snake skin) that was my reason in thinking #12 was on the small side for the application you mentioned.

I can however testify from personal experiance as to how well .22 shotshells (ie; #12) works on mice though! ...Even indoors it does no visable damage to a garage floor and is way more fun than a mouse trap!
 
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I make my own 38/357 snakeshot shells using CCI shot capsules and #9 shot.

I fill the capsules and seat them over 5.0gr W231 using a CCI-500 primer. That load works VERY well for me. They generate very dead pests.
 
If it were me, and I wanted to try making these with out using purchased capsules, I would 1st make a punch from an empty case by chanfering the case mouth ID with a tappered reamer or DeBurring tool untill it was sharp.

Then I would take a piece of cardboard like that found on the back of a pad of paper and punch out disks to seperate the powder charge from the shot as well as to cap the top of the finished shot load.

Lastly, I would use nail polish to seal the cardboard capping disk.
I suggest nail polish because can be thinned with acetone as needed, and it comes with a built in brush that is perfect for the job. You could also use various colors to ID your different powder and/or shot loads.


I agree with ArchAngel, #9 shot would a good choice.

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TooManyToys said:
If it were me, and I wanted to try making these with out using purchased capsules, I would 1st make a punch from an empty case by chanfering the case mouth ID with a tappered reamer or DeBurring tool untill it was sharp.

Then I would take a piece of cardboard like that found on the back of a pad of paper and punch out disks to seperate the powder charge from the shot as well as to cap the top of the finished shot load.

Lastly, I would use nail polish to seal the cardboard capping disk.
I suggest nail polish because can be thinned with acetone as needed, and it comes with a built in brush that is perfect for the job. You could also use various colors to ID your different powder and/or shot loads.


I agree with ArchAngel, #9 shot would a good choice.

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I thought about using an sharpened empty shell case as a punch and placing a divider between the powder and the shot to act as a wad. Never thought about using nail polish though. That is a good idea. If I do make up some I could do some testing with different size shot up to maybe #7.5 though I don't think you would get much in the case with the powder, the wad, and the cap. You would have 0.066 taken up by the card stock. The 10mm cases are 0.992 inches long and 5 grains of Longshot would take up 0.41 cc of the 0.95 cc case. Not sure how many CC' s 0.066 inch takes up but it doesn't leave allot of room for shot. Wonder how many BB' s would fit in there I have plenty of those in the house.
 
A few years ago I bought a 10 pound bag of size 11 shot from midway and a box of speer shot capsules for the 44 mag. After I fill the capsules I weight them out and powder charge accordingly. I found these work REALY well out to about 15 yards on rabbits and ground squirrels. At closer ranges they tend to make a mess out of whatever it is you are shooting.
 
Kuyong_Chuin said:
Wouldn't that foul up the barrel with glue?
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No. It is something re-enactors use in making blanks. Hot glue cures almost immediately, so there no time lost. Some use a small amount of elmer's white glue, which works just as well, but has to sit to dry. The glue crystallizes.
 
Would you need to weigh the wading and the card cap as part of the load? Also would it be safe using the 10mm cases in a 40S&W as long as you are loading it to the 40 bullet and powder weight data?
 
IIRC my 45 LC loads only have around 739 #12 shot in them and that is using capsules that extend beyond the case mouth.

Just checked and your not going to be able to fit 200 grains of #12 shot in a 10mm case, unless you melt them into a slug. I weighed an empty deprimed 10mm case and it was 70 grains, filled to the top with #12 it is 226 gn. So even if you had no powder or any sort of wad you would only have 156 grains of shot.
 
You would have to crimp the front of the case so it fits the chamber. Of course you have to buy a special die to do that, and I do not know if they are available in .40. They are in .45.

I used # 9 shot in my .38 Spl and .44 Spl home made shot loads because, like others, I was getting shot from commercial shells. I works well. # 12 shot would cover better, and by all reports works well. Neither shot size is going to work past a few feet, so if you have one or the other size handy, I would use what you have. I never made any for .45 ACP.

The payload is what makes a shot shell, and there isn't much room for shot in a .45 ACP shot shell. That is why I bought my Charter Arms Bulldog .44 Spl.
 
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Home grown .380 ACP shotshells made from .223 brass.

Lathe turned on outside to .380 chamber length, then loaded and hand star crimped.

380ShotshellJPG.jpg

380Shot3.jpg

IMO: #12 shot kills snakes much better & faster then #8 shot or #6 shot.

More little holes in a snakes nervous system shorts them out faster then a few bigger holes.


Also, even heavily roll crimped 10mm brass will not chamber in a .40 S&W.
You would have to neck it down to the chamber length of the .40 to have a headspace shoulder for it to rest on.
10mm case is .142", or over 1/8" longer then a .40 case.

rc
 
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Reloaders I know will use nothing but #12 shot, I do not believe them but they claim when shot with #12 the rattler stops moving instantly.

My claim we waited for the sun to go down to ambush the snakes with pick-ups when they crawled out on warm payment did not stop then from moving.

One of my worst days happened in Okeene, Oklahoma. The next worst day happened in Lugert, Oklahoma, In an effort to get a head start for Big Springs we started early. I decided the crew I was with was never going to survive, I left everything I had that was related to catching live snakes at the den, I said to one snake hunter? "SRAND UP!!!!! and he ask "Why?"

F. Guffey
 
It's "common knowledge" around here that any snake can bite you after it's dead. I saw one in the back of a pickup at a gas station once that a guy had almost decapitated with a blast from a .410 derringer. Its head was hanging by a thread and it still struck at the stick he poked it with.
So I generally figure that any snake isn't really "dead" until its in the fire barrel and roasted to a crisp. Handle any snake you shoot with care... preferably at the end of a long-handled shovel.

Let them alone if you can - it's less trouble and they eat pests.
 
I've loaded quite a lot of handgun shotshells in .357, 44. Sp and 45 Colt. In the .357's and .44's I use shot capsules and either #8 or #9. In the 45 Colt, a little Red Dot (3.0 or so grs.), a over-powder card, fill the case with shot, then another card followed by a sealer of some sort. I just can't justify buying a huge bag of teeny shot just for handgun shells when I have bags of #8 and #9 already. Even if you don't reload shotgun shells, one can rob #8 or #9 from loaded shotgun shells. Even robbing the shot from a few .410 shells loaded with 1/2 oz. #9 will load lots of handgun shotshells.

I've never lost a single snake to any shotshell EXCEPT CCI 22 LR and #12. That stuff is frustrating at best.

A week or so ago I was at the back of my place when I saw a snake slither into a bunch of thick grass at the base of a mesquite bush. I decided to push it out to see what it was; bull snake, let it go, rattler kill it. After much prodding and poking it finally made a run for an adjacent patch of grass so I only had a split second to get off a shot. I keep a shotshell loaded in my .44 Special with the remaining 5 cylinders loaded with 260 gr. SWC's. Anyhow, as it entered the bunch of grass, I hastily shot it hitting it in the body which stopped it. I drug it out then applied the coup de grace to the head.

Rattler_zpsb6240775.jpg

The #9 did fine, as it always has.

To the OP, I like your idea a lot and enjoy experimenting along those lines. In the mean time, this is available.

I've bought the same stuff for my little Star 9mm. Only used it once on a rather large rattler and it made for a limp, dead rattlesnake with one shot.

35W

P.S>- Like someone else said, you won't get anywhere near the same weight shot in a handgun shell as you would with a bullet. Too, load them light. High velocity is a detriment to handgun shotshell patterns and it doesn't take much velocity to penetrate a snake.
 
For snake loads I've always used a faster burning powder, 231 works well for me. But personally, I wouldn't go with Longshot, it's made for full tilt loads.

I have no experience loading snake loads for AL cartridges, but I have been loading them for 38 spcl and larger wheel gun cartridges, because that's what I carry most of the time. My Son has some factory .40 snake loads, and they appear to be #8 or #9 shot.

Out where I live I encounter rattle snakes on a regular basis, so my choice, and what has killed numerous rattler's is #8 from 38 spcl. and .357 cases. Now days though, I just buy the Speer shot capsules, they are much faster to whip up a batch of. Someone here actually got me using them a while back.

GS
 
I do the same as 35 whelen when I'm at the farm, one snake shot in the chamber and the rest are regular loads and I'll add a snake pic too.

After dragging the water primrose out of the lake I found this snake trying to get the catfish down at the edge.

HPIM0268.jpg
 
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