I have many sets of bottleneck rifle dies. I regularly see "body dies" in neck sizer dies sets for sale locally(used of course). This may seem simple but when I set my FL sizer die to "neck size" it both neck sizes and slightly body sizes as well. I own neck sizer dies for almost every set of FL dies in my inventory...is there any need for body size dies? Just a thought i guess......
a simple die question
- Thread starter Visionz45
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gamestalker
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The closest you can get to necking without using a neck die is a small base die. Other wise your going to be getting only a partial neck sizing and still getting the wall worked some. If you don't want your shoulder set back and the wall sized you have to go with a neck die.
243winxb
Member
Standard Dies- No, not if you have Full length & neck dies for each caliber. Bushing Dies- A neck sizing only bushing die & a body die would both be used at times , but not always. When the neck sized brass no longer chambers, they bump the shoulder back with the body die. Really depends on how you like to size the necks.
USSR
Member
Visionz45,
As you noted, when you set your FL sizing die up to "neck size", you are partially resizing the body. With a neck sizing this is not the case, but eventually you will need to bump the shoulder back, hence the body die. I use a Redding neck sizing die and body die every time I reload, and am essentially FL resizing in two distinct operations.
Don
As you noted, when you set your FL sizing die up to "neck size", you are partially resizing the body. With a neck sizing this is not the case, but eventually you will need to bump the shoulder back, hence the body die. I use a Redding neck sizing die and body die every time I reload, and am essentially FL resizing in two distinct operations.
Don
DM~
Member
I don't understand this statement? A small base die sizes a case EVEN MORE than a full sizer, i mean it takes the case body to a smaller dimension than a FL die.
I'm just not sure how that adds up to neck sizeing without an neck size die?
DM
gamestalker
member
No, the name of the die, small base die, isn't referring to it sizing smaller than a FL die. It actually barely works the wall. It's primary use is to set the shoulder back and size the neck without heavy sizing of the wall. Small base are always mis-understood, but truth is they are between a FL and neck die and good company if your a necker and need to reset the shoulder now and then, but don't want to work the wall down by the base. There, I think I explained it even though I was a bit redundant with my phrasing.
DM~
Member
That's not what i understand a SB die to be. I believe they size the whole case smaller to fit auto rifles better. Otherwise, all anyone has to do is shorten a FL die a bit, and it will easily push the shoulder back. (if it won't already do so)
I've spl. ordered SB dies from RCBS to size custom cases "smaller" to fit break open guns, back when i was selling DR's and combo's in custom widlcat cartridges. When the brass got old, it sprung back too much, and a SB die was needed to size the brass even more than a FL die would.
At least that's the way it works with RCBS dies...
DM
I've spl. ordered SB dies from RCBS to size custom cases "smaller" to fit break open guns, back when i was selling DR's and combo's in custom widlcat cartridges. When the brass got old, it sprung back too much, and a SB die was needed to size the brass even more than a FL die would.
At least that's the way it works with RCBS dies...
DM
I use the versatile full length sizer die, it will neck size, partial neck size, size the neck and partially size the body, it will size the case with control as in neck size, size the case and place the shoulder where I want it from full length to minimum length, to go-gage chamber to no-go length, to infinity or a more practical .014 longer than a minimum length case and that would be the same length as a field reject gage, and all the sizes in between in thousands, the difference? my dies work with the companion tool to the press, the feeler gage.
I measure before and after, again I collect datums, I have small base dies , Bar dies and the versatile FL dies, when measuring the difference between all three die I have to get the good stuff out to measure.
Body sizing only, when the body is sized only the body/sides of the case is reduced in diameter, when the body of the case is sized the shoulder of the case is forced out meaning the case gets longer from the head of the case to the shoulder, but who measures?
With a full length sizer die I size cases that are from .012 thousands shorter than a minim length case to a practical .016 thousands longer than the minimum length store bought, over the counter, commercial case, that is 28 different lengths, when checking a chamber the different length cases measure chambers that are from .012 short to beyond field reject, for a 30/06 chamber that would be .014 thousands.
Brass stretch and or flow, when sizing where does the brass go, Most claim brass stretches, any day now I expect someone to find skid marks on the case body, seems like it would be a good way to determine the number of times the case was fired, they still trim but can not find skid marks.
A friend acquired 30,000 plus test fired cases with the small round cup dent on the side, after firing the round dent did not move, it got hammered but it did not move progressively toward the mouth of the case.
F. Guffey
I measure before and after, again I collect datums, I have small base dies , Bar dies and the versatile FL dies, when measuring the difference between all three die I have to get the good stuff out to measure.
Body sizing only, when the body is sized only the body/sides of the case is reduced in diameter, when the body of the case is sized the shoulder of the case is forced out meaning the case gets longer from the head of the case to the shoulder, but who measures?
With a full length sizer die I size cases that are from .012 thousands shorter than a minim length case to a practical .016 thousands longer than the minimum length store bought, over the counter, commercial case, that is 28 different lengths, when checking a chamber the different length cases measure chambers that are from .012 short to beyond field reject, for a 30/06 chamber that would be .014 thousands.
Brass stretch and or flow, when sizing where does the brass go, Most claim brass stretches, any day now I expect someone to find skid marks on the case body, seems like it would be a good way to determine the number of times the case was fired, they still trim but can not find skid marks.
A friend acquired 30,000 plus test fired cases with the small round cup dent on the side, after firing the round dent did not move, it got hammered but it did not move progressively toward the mouth of the case.
F. Guffey
Again, if the chamber is in an auto loader why is the chamber smaller??? In the old days the M1 Garand was designed to use the same ammo as the 03, 03A3 and M1917 meaning all four chambers used the same ammo, SO, the chamber of the M1 Garand got a bigger chamber, get out the good stuff, the chamber was reamed .00025 larger at the rear to aid in feeding and extraction. Again I have 4 sets of BAR dies, to measure the difference between the BAR dies and the standard versatile full length sizer die I have to get the good stuff out, the difference is less than .0003 thousands, I have better luck measuring the difference with datums.
It would be nice if someone could measure a chamber.
F. Guffey
It would be nice if someone could measure a chamber.
F. Guffey
USSR
Member
Don't know where you got that info, but it's just plain not true. A small base die reduces the body just like a regular FL die, only it also reduces the body farther down the case. They are particularly useful when resizing MG fired brass, as they are typically blown out of spec down near the base.
Don
jinxer3006
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gamestalker
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For over 20 years I have been under the impression that a SB die is not smaller at the base but shorter, thus no contact with the base. I got this information from an expert and must have mis-understood the explanation. I just did some reasearch on the SB and discovered I was completely wrong about my interpretation.
But on to the point of necking, and how to over come problems with the brass draging after a few neckings. RCBS will customize your FL die so it will reset the shoulder just enough, without working the wall as much, or at all, depending what you want. Last time I had this done they did it for free. Just send them some brass that has been put through your rifle(not resized) along with the FL die, and they'll take care of you. It's great to work with dies that don't over work your brass at the shoulder or wall.
But on to the point of necking, and how to over come problems with the brass draging after a few neckings. RCBS will customize your FL die so it will reset the shoulder just enough, without working the wall as much, or at all, depending what you want. Last time I had this done they did it for free. Just send them some brass that has been put through your rifle(not resized) along with the FL die, and they'll take care of you. It's great to work with dies that don't over work your brass at the shoulder or wall.
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