A tipping point?

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wgp

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I think the call for confiscation, and outright repeal of the 2A, is as loud as I've ever heard it. The suggestion is that recent shootings has pushed us closer to a tipping point on "gun control".

But, last night at dinner my wife, who puts up with my guns but has always made it clear that she does not want to learn to shoot, spoke up out of the blue to say that she wonders whether she should learn to shoot. She does not want to carry, but she has begun to think about home defense, because of the recent shootings and terror attacks. This is exactly opposite of her past thoughts about guns.

So, if by any chance we are at or even near a tipping point, which way do you think things might be tipping?
 
I think things are much less dire than some of the clucking on THR suggests. We have more constitution carry states than at any time in recent history, high gun sales, ready access to information to help discern BS from media bias, a young population that's rightfully skeptical of its government (yes, that includes both parties), and recent events are causing many to make similar conclusions as those your wife has come to.

As an added bonus, the NYT wore its heart on its sleeve last weekend. The only thing more offensive than the idea of that piece was the poor writing. But it's been recognized for what it is, with many Democrat individuals and media calling it what it is.

This doesn't say all is well or that we shouldn't be vigilant. But the sky is not falling, and I find plenty of reasons to be optimistic.
 
I think all the recent calls for new gun legislation might backfire on the antigun lobby. Yesterday, my mother's neighbor who has always been anti gun asked his son where he might be able to find an AR-15 for sale as he has been thinking that due to recent events he might like to own one for self defense. I live in NC and in my neck of the woods he was the most anti gun individual I have ever met as most people here own multiple firearms and almost every male I know owns an AR or AK.
 
I too wonder if the increased volume of the anti-gun crowd is a result of desperation, rather than increased momentum, but I also understand that perception is reality. People will react to what they think is real, which is not always what is real. If enough people believe the hype, it won't matter what the facts are.
I happen to work in environmental health, the same field as the male San Bernadino killer, and the same field as at least some of his victims, although in a different state. Prior to a week ago, the only time concealed carry had ever come up at work was last spring when I was in a group of directors (my boss' equivalents throughout the State) and one of them was telling the tale of how he had to convince one of his employees to stop carrying at work. There were general snickers and snide remarks all around about "those crazy North Idaho folks." Since I was the junior man in the group, I just kept my mouth shut.
Fast forward to this week. There have been quite a few jokes from co-workers about "keeping an eye on us EH people." They say it with a laugh, but they seem a little uneasy, and you don't joke about something you haven't thought about. I can tell people are a bit more on edge. I haave very little doubt that if a concealed weapon failed to stay concealed in my place of work right now, there would be serious repercussions. However, just this morning, a local contractor that I have worked with for years asked if any of us were carrying now. I told him I didn't know, since concealed means concealed. I said I do not (for various reasons which don't matter to this thread). He remarked that at least some of us really should be, and that we should have a discussion about it. For reasons I outlined above, I do not think now is the right time for me to bring it up.
What does that all mean? I have no idea, but that is more talk at my workplace about concealed carry this year than any year before.
 
We should remember too that, in some ways, things are BETTER than they have been for decades. The "Assault Weapons" ban was never renewed, more states than ever are allowing CC and open carry and more guns are being sold than ever.

Another aspect where facts support our cause is that gun crime is actually in decline over the last 30 years or so.

The media has made up their minds. They are sticking to their story (for what reason I just can't see) but I don't see any major changes on the horizon.
 
So, if by any chance we are at or even near a tipping point, which way do you think things might be tipping?
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I think rather than tipping a giant crevass is opening. More than ever before it's like two different countries here -- one with the "traditional values" folks, who even if they previously never considered arming themselves are now making the decision to do so, the other who scream about their "safe spaces" while threatening all types of mayhem against anyone who disagrees with them but at the same time embrace the contradictory position that guns should be illegal. I saw somewhere the theory expressed that maybe the reason they want guns outlawed is that they themselves have such violent wishes.
 
Definitely a tipping point in the right direction. Our direction. Many previously laissez-faire folks are now scared.

They now realize we have to take responsibility for our own safety. The massive recent gun sales reflect this new revelation. It's all good.
 
So, if by any chance we are at or even near a tipping point, which way do you think things might be tipping?
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If anything, things will tip against us.

I too wonder if the increased volume of the anti-gun crowd is a result of desperation, rather than increased momentum, but I also understand that perception is reality. People will react to what they think is real, which is not always what is real. If enough people believe the hype, it won't matter what the facts are.
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Agreed.

A quick scroll through the headlines on the interwebs shows lots of articles regarding firearms. None of them seem to gain any traction and mostly seem to be by the usual suspects -- ie The Huffington Post, The Washington Post, etc. These media outlets are grasping at straws (and readers eyeballs). If it bleeds, it leads. In reality, I believe gun ownership and RKBA has not been stronger. However, reality has little bearing on the political processes of this country. I expect B. Hussein has some act of desperation up his sleeve that none of us will like. It'll be dirty and wrong and get rammed through despite reality.
 
I just read he's going to issue an executive order defining how many sales per year make a person a "dealer".
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That's been in the works for awhile.

Honestly, unless it's a stupid low number, it'll be nice to have a definition. Up to this point, it's been at ATF's discretion to decide that you are or aren't "engaged in the business", and the number is completely arbitrary.
 
My sister called me today. She has NEVER been anti gun.( she hunts and has taken 100 plus deer) but she and hubby went out and bought an AR this afternoon! We talked about it last week, and ...bang! They've got one. while they have several firearms, this is the first modern sporting rifle in their group.

So no, I don't think its time for panic. I don't think we should not be watchful. The enemy lurks and they are ready and willing to jump into the light...as soon as the news media gives them a chance!

Mark
 
I think we are seeing a massive and permanent hardening of positions on both sides. One side is buying firearms and ammo like it is going out of style. You are starting to see comments on gun control articles like "There are more of us and we have the guns."

The other side is starting to call for outright bans on all guns. Next time some anti-gunner says nobody wants to take away your guns:
https://newrepublic.com/article/125498/its-time-ban-guns-yes-them
 
I think you nailed it TwoEyedJack
The other side is starting to call for outright bans on all guns. Next time some anti-gunner says nobody wants to take away your guns:
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People are getting more extreme and bold in their views and opinions. More and more people, politicians, and celebrities are saying more extreme things.
Calling for total bans, forced buyback, repeal of the second amendment ect, ect.

I believe this will continue, the question is will it result in more hardened, bold supporters on their side. Or will it backfire and drive more to our side.

I don't think many people give the gun issue much thought but when you create a wedge issue people pick sides, which side ends up with the majority is what matters. I really think it'll basically come down to who has more population, cities or rural America, it appears to me that's the great divide.

Then again I could be wrong, I have been before.......twice :eek::eek:
 
DeepSouth said:
I believe this will continue, the question is will it result in more hardened, bold supporters on their side. Or will it backfire and drive more to our side.
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I'd tend to believe that it will backfire because of one simple reason: no matter how hardcore anti-gun activist is, they don't even begin to question the fact that government has an unlimited access to weapons. This means police and military.

A lot of arguments can be made about training and a controlled environment, but there's a massive discrepancy: in their mind an 18 year old can't have an AR of his own for hunting, target shooting or personal defense, but there's no problem giving him a selective fire M4 and sending him to liberate the bejesus out of any location around the world, in a chaotic and highly uncontrolled battlefield environment that used to be some poor b...'s home. Often with civilians present, setting the scene for likelihood of collateral casualties.

Police officers may be well trained in the use of force, but they already have vastly lower threshold for using deadly force than any regular citizen ever could. Not obeying police officer's commands in a situation the officer can interpret or explain as threatening, more often than not justifies the use of firearms. There's nothing wrong with that by itself - streets are public property and someone has to be able to keep them safe efficiently, but denying the same and even more restricted right by prohibiting access to effective, 100% defensive tools on citizens' personal level is hypocrisy at its worst.

I can't help but quoting Thomas Jefferson on this: "Tyranny is defined as that which legal for the government, but illegal for the citizenry."
 
The only desperation being exhibited is that of the Obama administration...they have a little over a year to fulfill their desire to disarm Americans.
 
I was having lunch with a vendor the other day and the subject shooting at the club came up. The guy admitted that he has never had an interest in guns even though his brother is Deputy Commander in on of the nearby towns and his B-I-L is an LEO in another suburb. However, he said that despite that, he is seriously thinking about learning to shoot and getting a gun to protect his family. Dunno if we have ISIS or Trump or the guberment to thank for that . . .
 
Would that be the tipping point be where people acknowledge the responsibility for their own personal safety, or where freedom is compromised by feckless mala prohibita facades that the gubmint is doing something?
 
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I don't think "tipping point" is quite the right way to say it. I think "moment of realization" or "awakening" or even "high water mark."

You have to look at two things.
1) The public shouting and media circus of noise over gun control.
2) The actual results, the trend, the nearly physical weight of pro-gun inertia which is holding the course these days.

If you were to look at the noise of news commentators and politicos shouting over each other you might think there's some tipping point, one way or another, at hand in a great debate that's happening in this season.

But it isn't. It isn't happening in this season. It already happened. It happened over the last 22 years as gun owners consolidated and strengthened as a force since the 1994 AWB that pushed so many Democrat law makers out of office. The writing was on the wall after Sandy Hook, when the current President SEIZED THE MOMENT of crisis and fervor and ... did pretty much nothing. Enacted a bunch of executive actions that amounted to little more than a public display of impotence. And Congress followed suit, doing n.o.t.h.i.n.g substantive. I was listening to NPR last week and heard something interesting: The same legislative items were pushed after San Bernadino as were pushed after Sandy Hook. And they failed, again. And in the voting on those items, not ONE vote changed in all the time between those events.

It isn't a tipping point. It is a foamy splash of a wave against a massive sea wall, moving nothing, changing nothing, and introducing nothing but noise and very temporary nuisance.
 
The wave is a wave of emotion, the antis most powerful and oft used tool. It's power should not be underestimated, but the duration is brief, usually ebbing to be supplanted by pragmatism and common sense.
 
wgp said:
So, if by any chance we are at or even near a tipping point, which way do you think things might be tipping?
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I see it as a teeter-totter that is pretty well balanced right now. As different events happen, a little weight gets thrown on one side or the other making it drop ever so slightly. The latest terrorist attacks have added weight to our side and cancelled out the extra weight on the other side thrown on by the school/theater/church shootings. The balance is still pretty precarious and it's too bad we have to depend on tragedies to keep the balance.
 
I agree with Sam1911 that it more people waking up than stopping point.

On.November 25th Obama said there is "no specific or credible" information about the threat of "an attack on the homeland" over the Thanksgiving holiday.

Well I suppose he was partially right. The S.B. attack missed the weekend by three days. All of the information coming out is making it look like a attack by a organized terrorist cell. People can see events for what they really are not the way Obama and the liberals.want it to be.
 
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