benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
You do realize that there is a middle ground between "don't hedge at all, no one will EVER try to restrict AR's, magazines or ammo again" and "compromise your housing and sell your children into slavery", right?
A Word to the Wise:
- Thread starter plodder
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Some people live in a binary all-or-nothing world where taking reasonable steps to prepare for a highly-predictable situation is much more difficult than complaining about being "caught" by said situation after it, predictably, happens.
Take the OP as about the five hundredth "now is the time to buy!" warning, in case 'now' being the time to buy for the last year or more hasn't resulted in reasonable steps at being prepared, yet
Elkins45
Member
I don't know how much more a lesson was needed than the dark years between 1994 and 2004 when he Clinton ban was in effect. I very clearly remember when a $20 Glock magazine cost $80 on the private retail market, and when I wan't allowed to buy an AR with a threaded muzzle. When the ban ended in 2004 I made it my business to procure all of the 10+ round magazines I might ever reasonably need for my handguns and AR. Frankly I was amazed that the ban was allowed to sunset and I wasn't about to make the same mistake twice.
Then came the 2008 Obama panic...and then the 2013 Sandy Hook mega panic.
Unless you are A) only recently old enough or B) financially unable then you shouldn't have to be scrambling to buy stuff now. It's not like we haven't seen it coming.
Then came the 2008 Obama panic...and then the 2013 Sandy Hook mega panic.
Unless you are A) only recently old enough or B) financially unable then you shouldn't have to be scrambling to buy stuff now. It's not like we haven't seen it coming.
Hangingrock
Member
I find the panic people and the end of the end of the world is coming as we know it people both to be nettlesome.
fastbolt
Member
I've been judiciously rounding out some gaps in my supplies.
For me, that means just putting back a reasonable supply of some standard pressure .38 Spl and some .22LR & .22 MAG, and maybe some more .30-30.
Last time people went nuts in buying and hoarding those calibers became spotty in availability, and outrageously priced when available.
Since I'm not buying as "investment", or to think about trying to "profit" from high prices during some shortage (by selling), I'm not having to break the bank to fill those gaps.
It doesn't require being able to see the future to realize there's likely to be another panic-buying wave or two due to political influences in the near future.
I'd NOT max out the credit cards and prepare for a zombie apocalypse. Better to spend some of that extra disposable money on actual staples and supplies that have more immediate use for the needs of daily living.
For me, that means just putting back a reasonable supply of some standard pressure .38 Spl and some .22LR & .22 MAG, and maybe some more .30-30.
Last time people went nuts in buying and hoarding those calibers became spotty in availability, and outrageously priced when available.
Since I'm not buying as "investment", or to think about trying to "profit" from high prices during some shortage (by selling), I'm not having to break the bank to fill those gaps.
It doesn't require being able to see the future to realize there's likely to be another panic-buying wave or two due to political influences in the near future.
I'd NOT max out the credit cards and prepare for a zombie apocalypse. Better to spend some of that extra disposable money on actual staples and supplies that have more immediate use for the needs of daily living.
jrmiddleton425
Member
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- 663
Fact is, there have always been (and always will be) market fluctuations, price gouging, profiteering, panic buying, and shortages. That's what happens when you have a capitalist, free market economy.
You realize the reason everything that has been in short supply over the last 8 years or so has been almost entirely due to individuals stockpiling and not government bans or regulations. Just saying these shortages are self inflicted and yeah it is people suddenly upping their consumption of shooting supplies whenever a not so gun friendly politician speaks or they receive the monthly NRA scare mail ( I'm a member but some of that is just insulting to my intelligence).
ColoradoShooter77
Member
Last summer, when powder starting re-appearing again, after a 2 year hiatus, I bought 8 lbs of H-4895, 8 lbs of Longshot, and 8 lbs of CFE-Pistol. This in addition to the 8 lbs of IMR-4895 that I had bought just prior to Sandy Hook.
This powder supply will feed all of my calibers for a solid 2 years, that's about where I want to be.
I've been buying primers a couple bricks at a time, every gun show, so that adds up over time and I can spread out the cost.
This powder supply will feed all of my calibers for a solid 2 years, that's about where I want to be.
I've been buying primers a couple bricks at a time, every gun show, so that adds up over time and I can spread out the cost.
JohnBiltz
Member
This is true, but it is only true for those who did it at the last moment. The people who stocked up during the years and year before contributed nothing to the panic. If anything they helped because they helped keep production running during the slower years and bought nothing at all during the panic. The only gun related purchase I made for 10 months after the last panic was a safe. I had 18 months worth of ammo to fall back on. In other words I did not have to panic, I had it already covered.
Vern Humphrey
Member
I routinely buy powder by the 8-lb Keg, primers by the slip (5,000) and .22 LR by the case (5,000 rounds.) I was doing that back in the early 70s, and during the Ammo Drought, I found myself with plenty. I don't plan to change my buying patterns now.
alsaqr
Member
Hanging Rock and Pablo J are correct, it's all being driven by fear. Fear sells, big time. This panic is being driven by the pro-gun organizations, gun makers, ammo sellers, gun show promoters and gun dealers.
i've been hearing "Obama will take our guns" since 2007. Couple weeks after Obama was elected, a member of our breakfast klache told us the US congress had passed a law taking away our guns and it was on Obama's desk for signature. i politely told the gent he was wrong.
Worked in MA in 1995 and 96. Never saw so many NRA stickers in vehicles in my life. Then i got to know some of those folks. Many valued their high standard of living, good jobs and low crime rate more than their guns.
There is a reason some states have strict gun control: The majority of citizens in CA, CT, HI, IL, MA, MD, NJ, and NY, want strict gun control.
i own tons of ammunition. Got most of it free or very cheap. Had most of the stuff for decades. Cost more to haul the stuff from WV to OK than the acquisition costs.
Very seldom do i buy any ammunition.
i've been hearing "Obama will take our guns" since 2007. Couple weeks after Obama was elected, a member of our breakfast klache told us the US congress had passed a law taking away our guns and it was on Obama's desk for signature. i politely told the gent he was wrong.
Worked in MA in 1995 and 96. Never saw so many NRA stickers in vehicles in my life. Then i got to know some of those folks. Many valued their high standard of living, good jobs and low crime rate more than their guns.
There is a reason some states have strict gun control: The majority of citizens in CA, CT, HI, IL, MA, MD, NJ, and NY, want strict gun control.
i own tons of ammunition. Got most of it free or very cheap. Had most of the stuff for decades. Cost more to haul the stuff from WV to OK than the acquisition costs.
Very seldom do i buy any ammunition.
Vern Humphrey
Member
I don't think so. All the panic talk I've seen or heard has been individual gun owners.
entropy
Member
As SGM Plumley said, "If I need a rifle (AR), there'll be plenty of them laying about." I have enough to hold me until that point.
Ed Ames
Member
Well no I don't actually, I think you have it backwards.
I see a lot of evidence from trade groups and personal anecdotes that a lot of people started or resumed shooting post-2008. So actual demand increased because the market expanded. More people shooting + no change in production = shortage. I saw the same issue with range lane space...I would go to a public range and have to sit and wait because every lane had at least one shooter.
On the flip side, I consistently bought more ammo than I used from about 1993 through 2008. When 2008 came around and prices jumped I basically stopped buying. I am far from alone in that. My stockpiles reduced my personal need to buy ammo, freeing supply for other shooters.
So, from my POV, you have it backwards. Stockpiling reduced the supply issue caused by an increase in aggregate demand.
I am intrigued by the diversity of opinions on this subject by the collective wisdom of its members, primarily gun owners. As an earlier poster stated, it’s a manifestation of capitalism. Fear, greed, supply/demand, cost, wealth, value, etc. affects all of us and we react in a myriad of ways.
Of course, this problem could have been solved if we elected Bernie Sanders. We all could be spending one cent per round for .22 ammo, but you would have to like standing in long lines.
Of course, this problem could have been solved if we elected Bernie Sanders. We all could be spending one cent per round for .22 ammo, but you would have to like standing in long lines.
Carl N. Brown
Member
The impression I get is that this current "banic" is buyers' panic provoked by anti-gun rhetoric for draconian restrictions in the media from politicians and opinion editorials -- the actual source of fears of gun restrictions. Anyone remember the NY bill to restrict gun owners to buying one magazine load of ammo every 90 days? That kind of thing prompts fear, uncertainty and doubt.
The OP talks about a two year supply. I was prompted to stockpile a five year supply in the late 1960s, prompted by having to find an FFL (mostly department stores with sporting goods sections) to buy .22s with the sales entered in the dealer's bound book by my name, address, DL number, make, caliber and quantity. Now that I am involved in matches at the local club, my stockpile is deeper.
The gun control advocates on the floor of Congress and the option editorials in the media calling for restricting or banning guns and ammunition had a lot to do with instilling my fear of federal restrictions or bans on ammunition. It was not instilled by the NRA, or dealers, or gun show promoters, but by me listening to crusading advocates of ever restrictive gun laws promising bans and restrictions and me taking them at their word.
It used to be that I bought guns and ammo at the sporting goods section of department store like Wards, Sears, K-mart, Penneys, Western Auto. No more. The last hold out in general department stores is WalMart and they're under siege. Guns and ammo have been ghettoized, removed from the mainstream, into dedicated gun shops and sporting goods stores. (As a cultural sign of the sigmatisation, marginalisation and demonisation of the "gun culture", in the original Dawn of the Dead 1978 there was a gun shop inside the mall; in the modern remake 2004, the gun shop was across the street from the mall in a seedy building.)
The OP talks about a two year supply. I was prompted to stockpile a five year supply in the late 1960s, prompted by having to find an FFL (mostly department stores with sporting goods sections) to buy .22s with the sales entered in the dealer's bound book by my name, address, DL number, make, caliber and quantity. Now that I am involved in matches at the local club, my stockpile is deeper.
The gun control advocates on the floor of Congress and the option editorials in the media calling for restricting or banning guns and ammunition had a lot to do with instilling my fear of federal restrictions or bans on ammunition. It was not instilled by the NRA, or dealers, or gun show promoters, but by me listening to crusading advocates of ever restrictive gun laws promising bans and restrictions and me taking them at their word.
It used to be that I bought guns and ammo at the sporting goods section of department store like Wards, Sears, K-mart, Penneys, Western Auto. No more. The last hold out in general department stores is WalMart and they're under siege. Guns and ammo have been ghettoized, removed from the mainstream, into dedicated gun shops and sporting goods stores. (As a cultural sign of the sigmatisation, marginalisation and demonisation of the "gun culture", in the original Dawn of the Dead 1978 there was a gun shop inside the mall; in the modern remake 2004, the gun shop was across the street from the mall in a seedy building.)
FL-NC
Member
I have no issue. Ammunition is a consumer product, just like anything else that someone would want to spend their hard earned $ on. Like any consumer product, its first come first served. I do have an issue with people having their friend at wally world set it all aside, and after they buy it all out, selling it to their fellow shooters at a ridiculous mark-up. Personally, I believe that crosses the line of shady.
brewer12345
Member
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- 2,751
Anyone who has not stocked up is foolish, IMO. Whether you think whoever wins the election has the willingness and ability to further trample the second amendment or not, the general public is likely to view a certain candidate's victory as the end of free availability. Even if they are wrong, you would be caught up in the madness of a severe panic/drought. I don't particularly want to be stuck without what I need to hunt and shoot, so stocking up makes sense to me. If no panic develops I have simply pre-bought stuff I will eventually use.
While I didn't enjoy the AWB - they were still selling guns. And you could buy all the ten round mags for $15 bucks each you wanted. Those of us who carry 6-7 shot mags for single stack pistols are somewhat blase about the argument. Lets not forget that nobody was searching homes and seizing them, just not allowing new sales of weapons with certain banned features.
Since that time there have been some ingenious work arounds that make the laws in AWB states look as stupid as they are.
The OMG go buy whatever you need before the next ban thinking also misses a significant issue - if you are thinking the next ban will let you keep shooting what you have, says who? Not in Massachusetts. The AG states most semi autos rifles are now illegal regardless. Buying more now would only add to the pile of contraband seized by the police. Kinda hard to hide a room full of reloading gear, a gun safe, and pallets of ammo.
I would recommend you start trimming things down and selling off. In hard times how many guns do you need? All the rest might be left behind while you flee your pursuers and try to make it to freedom in a no ban state.
Don't assume it will only be "so bad." It could be worse, and it is in Massachusetts.
Since that time there have been some ingenious work arounds that make the laws in AWB states look as stupid as they are.
The OMG go buy whatever you need before the next ban thinking also misses a significant issue - if you are thinking the next ban will let you keep shooting what you have, says who? Not in Massachusetts. The AG states most semi autos rifles are now illegal regardless. Buying more now would only add to the pile of contraband seized by the police. Kinda hard to hide a room full of reloading gear, a gun safe, and pallets of ammo.
I would recommend you start trimming things down and selling off. In hard times how many guns do you need? All the rest might be left behind while you flee your pursuers and try to make it to freedom in a no ban state.
Don't assume it will only be "so bad." It could be worse, and it is in Massachusetts.
OP
OP
plodder
Member
As the OP to the thread, I probably should have left any reference to the politicians out of the commentary. Truth be told, I am not 100% certain that a Trump Presidency would bode any better for the 2nd Amendment than a Hillary Presidency. I just know what each of them are saying at the moment.
As for my suggestion to prepare, I'll just refer you to the story of the Little Red Hen that I read while in 1st or 2nd grade. It left a lasting impression upon me.
As for my suggestion to prepare, I'll just refer you to the story of the Little Red Hen that I read while in 1st or 2nd grade. It left a lasting impression upon me.
Flynt
Member
I buy ammo a lot like the way my wife shops at Costco. To save money over the long haul, she gets large quantities of stuff with far-out expiration dates, or stuff that never expires.
If for some reason a TV news crew filmed my garage, with it's stacks of GI ammo cans, I'd be deemed a hoarder. I have hunting rifles in at least half a dozen calibers, and I don't reload. When I find a factory load one of them likes, I try to stock up with a 100 rounds or so from the same lot. I have had good ammo be discontinued. I shoot sporting clays, so whenever shells go on sale I buy several cases.
I also have a few thousand rounds of CCI Standard Velocity, which all of my 22s like. My local Academy sold it for $3.49 a box for several years. One day after the drought broke, an employee told me the price was going to go sometime soon, so I made a lot of trips to scoop up as much as I could. Sure enough, it went up to $3.79 or $3.99.
If for some reason a TV news crew filmed my garage, with it's stacks of GI ammo cans, I'd be deemed a hoarder. I have hunting rifles in at least half a dozen calibers, and I don't reload. When I find a factory load one of them likes, I try to stock up with a 100 rounds or so from the same lot. I have had good ammo be discontinued. I shoot sporting clays, so whenever shells go on sale I buy several cases.
I also have a few thousand rounds of CCI Standard Velocity, which all of my 22s like. My local Academy sold it for $3.49 a box for several years. One day after the drought broke, an employee told me the price was going to go sometime soon, so I made a lot of trips to scoop up as much as I could. Sure enough, it went up to $3.79 or $3.99.
susieqz
Member
i tire of comments about hoarders. two years ago, i had to buy an air rifle for pest control since i couldn't find 22lr.
so of course i've taken steps to make sure that doesn't happen again.
us hoarders are doing the shooting community a favor.
when the next panic hits, we will simply stop buying.
so a panic should not be as deep or long lasting as otherwise.
so of course i've taken steps to make sure that doesn't happen again.
us hoarders are doing the shooting community a favor.
when the next panic hits, we will simply stop buying.
so a panic should not be as deep or long lasting as otherwise.
wankerjake
Member
I hope anyone who is willing to give the OP guff has the good manners not to cry and complain next time stuff dries up. Could be early as November.
Carl N. Brown
Member
Stockpiling, hoarding, and scalping are three different things.
Just the way I look at it in the current ammo shortages: Scalpers are dogs who buy up hay to sell to horses at inflated prices and deserve contempt; Stockpilers are exercising commonsense; Hoarders are reacting to irrational emotion.
Just the way I look at it in the current ammo shortages: Scalpers are dogs who buy up hay to sell to horses at inflated prices and deserve contempt; Stockpilers are exercising commonsense; Hoarders are reacting to irrational emotion.
I've had a list of guns I want to acquire for quite some time. With the payoff of of a few hundred more on a G43 still in layaway I'll have all the weapons I consider needful to own. Not all that I would LIKE to own, but all I deem essential. I am also trying to make sure that each gun is accessorized as needed, has adequate magazines and a decent supply of ammo. I reduced my ammo footprint sometime back to be able to stock up on ammo easily. .22lr, .38/.357, 9mm, 5.56 & 12ga as primary needed ammo. Politically our future supply chain to feed our weapons is far from assured. I consider it only prudent to to take steps to prepare.
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