about Turkey loads...

[BillyBothHands]

Ok so I'm going to show my ignorance of turkey hunting... An old curiousity came back to mind today as Midway & Cabelas both blasted out turkey season e-fliers.

I've shot one turkey years ago that was terrorizing the neighbor kids and if memory serves it was a single shot 16ga with probably #8 shot.

I'm all about going over than under power-wise when hunting to make sure you get a clean kill. But I'm curious about all the 3.5" shoulder buster shells that turn up on sale around this time of year. Are turkeys other places than my buddy's backyard that hard to kill? or is there some need for extra distance when hunting wild turkey?

 

[cmfireman]

IMHO, it's the distance. Turkey can see very well, and it is hard to get very close.

 

[Avtomat Kalashnikova]

i have always use 2.5" 16ga #6 and #4, it worked just fine and i only recently switched to 3" 12 ga #4 because i now use a S12. i think the only purpose of the 31/2" is to get more range, so if you think you will be shooting at longer ranges than 3" would be effective to, 31/2" would be for you.

 

[jmr40]

The 3.5" turkey loads are just too much of a good thing. They have recoil greater than many elephant guns. Never seen a turkey I wanted that badly. They are simply not needed for turkey in my opinion.

When used with steel shot they make a little more sense. Since steel is not as effective as lead I can understand trying to put more pellets in the air. Plus the steel shot loads are much more manageable recoil wise.

I'll stick to standard 2.75" shells for most of my uses and 3" steel for waterfowl.

 

[slabuda]

Yep more pellets can fit inside them roman candles. And more pellets behind a stout powder charge means more pellets down range with sufficient energy to give a dense leathal patter at longer ranges.

I tried 2 3/4 3" and 3 1/2" shells patterning them at 40-50 yds. the 2 3/4 thinned out pretty good. And thankfully the 3" patterned better than the 3 1/2 inch. Those things really hurt to shoot. I used a recoil chart from Chuckhawks.com to compare turkey loads to rifles. They didnt have a similar load in shotguns but I did a best guess extrapolating the data to give a rough estimate of recoil energyl. I think the 3 1/2 shell came in about the same as a .416 rigby which is supposed to be pretty stout.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm
http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_recoil_table.htm


BTW I am 5'2" and only about 125lbs. I could handle it to a point but wouldnt want to do it more than a few times. I probably flinched pretty bad but who knows with a shotgun.
So if a little gut like me can shoot them why dont you big guys all shoot 3.5" 10 gauge?

 

[boatme99]

"IMHO, it's the distance. Turkey can see very well, and it is hard to get very close. "

CM, the buggers may have good sight, but they dang sure don't give a d***** about my truck comming down the road.
If you have a shotgun in your hand while walking though, you'll never see one!

 

[Husker_Fan]

I think the 3.5 inchers are a bit overrated. You will want to experiment to see what gives you the best pattern. My 11-87 with 21 inch barrel and Rem Ventilator choke patterns best with Win. 3 in. #6's. The gas operated action makes recoil from the 3 inch shells quite managable.

The NWTF site has a forum with lots of good info.

 

[627PCFan]

+1 on Husker.

3.5's rarely pattern better, they just go for higher pellet count and my chrono shows slightly lower velocity-

To the OP, sounds like you had a P'ed off turkey then. I use the same tactic for hunting now, I use a Tom decoy and when the resident bird responds hes aggressive (usually) and careless.

 

[cottonmouth]

I have an 870 Super Magnum and it is my dedicated turkey gun. I don't know if it does more or less than a 3" gun but 3-1/2" #6 will spoil a gobblers day at 50 yards even in the thick stuff. It does have some stiff recoil but I didn't buy it to shoot skeet and with my calling............ I'm not likely to even see a tom much less get a shot! LOL

J.B.

 

[rcmodel]

It's interesting that a 1 1/8 oz #8 trap load will turn a clay pigeon to a puff of dust at 40+ yards.

But it takes a $1,200 Magnum shotgun, shooting $3.00 a pop 3 1/2" loads, out of a $75 buck Kill'm and Clean'm Turkey choke tube, to put one or two pellets in a turkeys brain at the same distance?

We buy 3" and 3 1/2" Magnum turkey guns because we have been brain-washed by advertising into thinking we need a new magnum shotgun to kill a turkey over decoys at 35 yards.

Taint so.

I get one every year I hunt with a full choke A5 Browning and 2 3/4" heavy field loads.
Although I suspect a 1 1/8 oz trap load would do as well.

rc

 

[schlockinz]

I'll use 3.5" every because I've killed more birds with them than anything else (up to about 55yds).

To me the recoil isn't that bad, and the prices never seemed bad since I only shot turkeys with them (so 2 or 3 rounds a year). I found that I got decent patterns with 2/4 mixes and a full choke.

FWIW, I killed my last turkey with a modified barrel out of my grandads A5 20 gauge with 9 shot, DRT.

 

[shaggy430]

I shoot what patterns best at 40-50 yds. If that is a 2 3/4", 3", or 3 1/2" then so be it. My 870 12 gauge likes 3 1/2" Federal #5's so that's what I use. I've killed multiple turkeys with 3" 20 gauge #6's also.

In theory, one box of 10 can last years. Find out what your gun likes and buy 3 or 4 boxes in the off season when they are on sale and you'll have enough to last a lifetime.

 

[Todd1700]

3.5's rarely pattern better,

Whoa now! While I completely agree that every shotgun (rifle too) is an entity unto itself as far as what it likes ammo wise, it simply has not been my experience that standard shells always or usually outpattern 3 1/2 shells. Possible? Sure, and I would never doubt anyone that said their gun shot 3's better or just as good as 3 1/2's. It happens. But my experience however is that none of the 3 dedicated turkey guns I have has ever patterned a 3 1/2 inch shell worse than a 3 inch shell of the same brand. And that covers a lot of different shell and choke combinations.

It's interesting that a 1 1/8 oz #8 trap load will turn a clay pigeon to a puff of dust at 40+ yards.

But it takes a $1,200 Magnum shotgun, shooting $3.00 a pop 3 1/2" loads, out of a $75 buck Kill'm and Clean'm Turkey choke tube, to put one or two pellets in a turkeys brain at the same distance?

Well there are a lot of pellets in a number 8 shell due to the small diameter of the shot. That makes hitting a clay pigeon a lot easier. Clay pigeons break real easy too. But number 8 trap loads are waaaaay under powered to score clean kills at 40 yards on turkeys. You would hit him no doubt but penetration would be pitiful to nonexistent. Also why number 8's are illegal in many places for turkey.

And my favorite turkey gun is a Rem 870 SM I bought at Wal-mart. Hardly a 1200 dollar gun. LOL! But yes I use the denser than lead pellets because they penetrate and pattern way better than lead. And yes I use a 70 dollar Indian Creek choke because it outpatterns the cheaper chokes I tried first.

Two things sold me on the denser than lead shot.

1.) I shot a turkey at 40 yards using a little short barreled Mossberg shotgun that didn't hold as tight a pattern as the 870 I use now. His left side was turned towards me. It killed him cleanly but some of the pellets in the lower part of the pattern struck him in the upper left chest. Those denser than lead pellets went through his chest feathers; through his left breast; through his breast plate; and were lodged halfway through his right breast. Anybody that knows anything about turkey hunting will tell you that kind of penetration at 40 yards is insanely good. And that was with number 6 shot!!!

2.) The second thing that sold me were patterns like this at 40 yards. Below is 183 pellets inside a 10 inch circle at 40 with Winchester Elite extended range 3 1/2 inch number 6's. It will keep 110 inside the same size circle at 50.


As for the recoil? Yeah it's stout. But once my gun was patterned with these shells I never fire them at anything but a turkey. And I have never noticed recoil when I killed a turkey.

As for price? Yep, 40 dollars for a box of 10 is pricey. But even if I limited out on turkeys here in Alabama each year a box of 10 would still last 2 years.

 

[cottonmouth]

Looks like a turkey killer there Todd! I just remembered one of the main reasons I turkey hunt with a 3.5" 870 SM............... the wife gave it to me for Christmas one year. I better not be caught trying to sneak out with something else!

J.B.

 

[BillyBothHands]

Great discussion thanks for the feedback everybody!

And to JR- yes it was one cranky turkey! The old man a few houses down raised them. He'd told us if that tom gave us any more trouble just to handle it, which it what ended up happening. We did take it back to him so he could eat it. That bird was old though not sure how well it tasted lol

 

[buck460XVR]

It's interesting that a 1 1/8 oz #8 trap load will turn a clay pigeon to a puff of dust at 40+ yards.

But it takes a $1,200 Magnum shotgun, shooting $3.00 a pop 3 1/2" loads, out of a $75 buck Kill'm and Clean'm Turkey choke tube, to put one or two pellets in a turkeys brain at the same distance?

We buy 3" and 3 1/2" Magnum turkey guns because we have been brain-washed by advertising into thinking we need a new magnum shotgun to kill a turkey over decoys at 35 yards.

Taint so.

I get one every year I hunt with a full choke A5 Browning and 2 3/4" heavy field loads.
Although I suspect a 1 1/8 oz trap load would do as well.

rc

+1. Outta the 50 plus Toms I've taken in the past 30 years, the majority of them could've been shot with a .410 using 8 shot. IMHO, the confidence that advertisers give to those that think they need the macho loads and the super chokes leads to more cripples than dead birds. Everytime I read in these forums about a guy that took his tom @ 70 yards DRT, I wonder how many other birds ran off to die somewhere because instead of using good calling and hunting techniques, he relied on his loads and choke to try and kill the bird @ 70 yards.

 

[Todd1700]

the majority of them could've been shot with a .410 using 8 shot. IMHO,

The effective range of a 410 with 8 shot for turkeys is probably about 20 yards. Maybe less. If you are up for the challenge then by all means knock yourself out. And I'd dare to say a guy carrying a 410 and 8 shot would be about 10 times more likey to wound and lose a bird than me and my rig. The old 410 and 8 shot analogy gets tossed around a lot but no master turkey hunter I know, and I know a few, would carry that combo for turkeys. In fact there are very few things I would recomend a 410 for. Maybe none.

Every turkey rig you carry is going to have a maximun lethal range which you should have determined before hand. If some idiot thinks his gun can kill birds at 70 yards and cripples one at that range then he's an idiot. Same as a guy who cripples one with a 410 at 35 yards because he didn't realize that was too far for the rig he was using. Don't blame the arrow, blame the indian behind it.

 

[Grizfire]

My Turkey gun can accept a 3.5, but I use a 3 with good results.

 

[buck460XVR]

The effective range of a 410 with 8 shot for turkeys is probably about 20 yards. Maybe less. If you are up for the challenge then by all means knock yourself out.

I'd say more like 15 yards for turkey. Still I coulda harvested the majority of the birds I've shot with a .410.....that ain't an opinion, it's a fact.

And I'd dare to say a guy carrying a 410 and 8 shot would be about 10 times more likey to wound and lose a bird than me and my rig.

I would venture to say the odds would be about even, but only if you have the patience and the woodsmanship of the guy with the .410.

The old 410 and 8 shot analogy gets tossed around a lot but no master turkey hunter I know, and I know a few, would carry that combo for turkeys. In fact there are very few things I would recomend a 410 for. Maybe none.

Could it be the analogy gets "tossed" around so much cause it's true? If you reread my post, you'll notice I didn't say anywhere in it that I use a .410 for turkeys, nor did I say anywhere that I recommend a .410 for turkeys........I only said the majority of the birds I have had the privilege to harvest coulda been taken with a .410. This is because I rely on woodsmanship and knowledge of the birds in order to get close for a clean kill, not over-hyped, overpriced choke tubes and shotgun shells. Turkeys are not that hard to kill if you do your homework and know the limits of your weapon and where it shoots.....and folks have been takin' birds for many years without $70 choke tubes and $4 a pop shells. Regardless of what you say, just because there are folks out there that don't believe all the hype about the newest and deadliest magical turkey load, don't make them idiots...........especially when they are doin' just fine without them.

 

[Todd1700]

This is because I rely on woodsmanship and knowledge of the birds in order to get close for a clean kill, not over-hyped, overpriced choke tubes and shotgun shells.

The problem is that you seem to imply that anyone who chooses to use an expensive choke or a denser than lead ammo doesn't have any woodsmanship or turkey hunting knowledge. And that's just flat wrong. Most of the best turkey hunters I know use the best equipment too. Do you need these things to kill a turkey? No. But will a good choke like an Indian Creek or a Rhino and denser than lead turkey loads out pattern and out range standard chokes and lead turkey loads by a wide margin. You better believe it. These tungsten/nickel matrix loads are 30% denser than lead and 100 or more times harder than lead. Their superior penetration and killing power on turkeys isn't hype. It's a fact. Also, they pattern waaaay better than lead. Days off to go turkey hunting are few and precious to a working family man like myself. If I can boost my consistent lethal killing range from 40 to 50 yards for minimal cost then why not do it? The turkey shell is what actually does the killing. That makes it pretty important to me. You can only kill five turkeys a year here in Alabama. So even though 40 dollars a box may seem steep, a box of ten will last 2 years even if you limit out each year. I don't consider 20 dollars a year for ammo too bad. Hell, you can't take your family to McDonalds for 20 bucks.

and folks have been takin' birds for many years without $70 choke tubes and $4 a pop shells.

People took turkeys for many years with self made stick bows and knapped flint arrows too. If you despise modern advancements in turkey weapons so badly then why don't you go back to that? Why follow technology along all the way up to the modern semi-auto shotgun and high velocity lead turkey loads before deciding, Okay, that's it. Nobody should use anything better than this and if they do they are unskilled idiots who lean too much on equipment to make up for their lack of hunting skill." LOL! Do I detect a faint whiff of hypocrisy in the air? Or are you carving a stick bow as we speak. LOL!