Abrams - Scalia got it wrong

[Janitor]

1A was meant to be a collective right belonging only to the government also. Our forefathers were talking about something like the Ministry of Truth, so just ****.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Abrams was referring to Chief Justice Warren Burger. Guess what, that ****** bag Abrams, took it right from the Brady's web site, Not that I am surprised. http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issues/?page=second

The Brady Campaign also neglects to inform people that Burger made his comments to that most honored of law reviews - PARADE magazine (the freebie insert in your Sunday paper).

Even better, in the same article, Burger goes on to explain that the Second Amendment does protect hunting rifles and shotguns. Frankly, I would have loved to see him point out that text to me in the Second Amendment... the part about dove hunting must have been wedged between the "Well-regulated militia" and "right of the people."

All in all, I still recommend reading the Burger comments if only to have a laugh at the shallow hook the Brady bunch is resting its hat on and to get an appreciation of the paucity of reasoning being offered by a former Supreme Court Justice.

 

[.cheese.]

I rarely watch this channel, but last night I was scanning back and forth looking to see what the talking heads' reactions were to yesterday's ruling.

I was really surprised at what Abrams said.

 

[LaEscopeta]

Part of the Chief Justice Berger quote from post #8 above:

The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kind of weapon...urely the Second Amendment does not remotely guarantee every person the constitutional right to have a ‘Saturday Night Special' or a machine gun without any regulation whatever. There is no support in the Constitution for the argument that federal and state governments are powerless to regulate the purchase of such firearms...

The Heller decision is in line with this quote. Sorry if you don’t like it but it is true. From page 2 of the decision’s Syllabus (point 2 in the Held section, explained in detail on pages 54-56 to the Opinion of the Court):

2. Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited.
It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any
manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed
weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment
or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast
doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by
felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms
in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or
laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of
arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those
“in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition
of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons.

 

[Cuda]

“The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” —Samuel Adams

C

 

[Cuda]

wristtwister

Watch these guys, folks... they'll say anything that they think will get them a vote, at any time and to anybody.

Keep in mind..

“Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm.” —James Madison

C

 

[camacho]

Even better, in the same article, Burger goes on to explain that the Second Amendment does protect hunting rifles and shotguns. Frankly, I would have loved to see him point out that text to me in the Second Amendment... the part about dove hunting must have been wedged between the "Well-regulated militia" and "right of the people."

Wow, this guy was a profound legal scholar, hey? He is before my time, but a statement like that suggests either intelectual handicap or blatant political agenda. Most likely is the latter, but the bottom line is he should not have been a Justice.

 

[Kim]

This Abrams "elite" is the child of liberal Floyd Abrams,JD the well know left wing lawyer. His son (the one on TV) uses his elite law education to be a talk show host on the worst cable new network in the USA. Wonder how much money his Daddy spent getting him that great Education. The Nuy did not fall far from the tree.

 

[rainbowbob]

Burger:The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kind of weapon...

I got news for you...Justice Scalia said almost the thing in his statement affirming the 2A as an individaul right:

Scalia: Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.

[EDIT] Oops! After posting this, I realized LaEscopeta beat me to it.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

La Escopeta, rainbowbob - the excerpted language matches Scalia's but the tone of the article is decidedly different from Scalia. For example, Burger was writing in support of broad bans of handguns exactly of the type that Scalia overturned in his opinion.

Burger looked at the situation after the 1968 GCA and before 1986 FOPA and considered that "unfettered right to buy any kind of weapon."

The whole Parade is instructive in how weak some of his reasoning is.

 

[outerlimit]

Olbermann is a nut, if we applied his reasoning to the first amendment, the first amendment would not protect the right of free speech on the radio, tv, the Internet, and color newspapers.

With his reasoning, I'm surprised he doesn't also believe the 1st Amendment is a collective right, rather than an individual one.

Dan Abrams is the kook they replaced Tucker Carlson with. Tucker is more of an individual rights, libertarian kind of guy.

Obviously this doesn't fit in at MSNBC.

 

[SCKimberFan]

I refuse to allow my TV to ever be tuned into MSNBC, so that I don't have to listen to the likes of Olberman or Abrams or any of the others spewing this dislike for America and praising Socialism.

 

[GEM]

Matthews was semi-reasonable. He was complimentary to Wayne. Keith had decided that gun rights are a totem of the GOP and cannot use reason to look at the issues.

Suprising, on CNN, they were discussing Horn today. Tobin explained to Cooper that the no-bill would be suprising to the snobs of the East but the rest of the country is moving towards the view that you can prevent crimes with your own guns. Shocking! Horrors!

 

[outerlimit]

I refuse to allow my TV to ever be tuned into MSNBC, so that I don't have to listen to the likes of Olberman or Abrams or any of the others spewing this dislike for American and praising Socialism.

The only reason I knew anything about this, is because MSNBC is one of the few stations we get that isn't running infomercials of how to make a million dollars on Ebay or how to sell your Timeshares for big $$$ when I'm on break at 3am.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Link to the 1982 Senate report on the topic:

http://www.guncite.com/journals/senrpt/senrpt.html

Link to the 2004 D.O.J. report on the topic

http://www.gunshowonthenet.com/usdoj2ndamend.html

Between the two documents, with their citations, you have a compilation of the most extensive and meticulous legal and historical research ever conducted into the meaning of the 2nd Amendment.

Enjoy.

 

[Orange_Magnum]

He is fraudulently stupid.

 

[Rachen]

Now, we've got Barack Obama sitting in church for 20 years and never heard a single word that Jerimiah Wright said in his rants over white America and white Americans... and he said that the DC gun ban was legal and constitutional, until it was ruled against... and then he started pandering that the 2nd Amendment needed to be upheld.

Attention deficit disorder? But I hope no one will interject the subject of attention deficit disorder into this election. It is time for Americans to elect a President with attention deficit disorder.

Attention deficit? Sounds like Bipolar. Just look at his mood swings.

 

[ROMAK IV]

The study is Flawed! The doctors who did the study used only raw numbers, and atributed reductions in homicides, entirely to the DC gun ban. From what I understand, DC has always had strict gun laws, s a complete ban could not have the effect that is claimed. A similiar thing happened when the Brady Campaign claimed the the Assault Weapons Ban was the cause of the decline in gun violence from 1994-2006. Like the DC gun ban, the AWB couldn't have possibly been the reason, because its real effect was minimal. A common flaw, probably on purpose, by people who should know better. Lott, spends much time and effort to weed out other possiblilities, unlike this study.

Justice Breyer resourced an old study that involves the name "Kellerman". Kellerman is similiarly flawed, in that homicides are the source of data to interpolate the risk of owning a gun, by the general population. Since most homicides involve criminals or drug and alcohol abusers, the results are extremely skewed since the criminal or drug abuse status of the victim is ignored. A similiar occurence is when total "gun deaths" are all thrown in together, and the result is repeated with the impression that anything other than a small minority is normal innocent people. Don't be fooled by these dishonest "statistics", they are lies by ommission.

 

[mec]

Oh and he cited Warren Berger

That right there is enough to kill his credibility. Berger is widely considered the stupidist chief justice ever to sit.

 

[Madison_ultralight]

The majority Supreme Court said he was wrong so they must be frauds 'cause it ain't him. Typical narcissistic, elitist attitude.

 

[JERRY]

is anyone really suprised that the liberals are still against the RKBA even after the the supreme court simply read the constitution as it was/is written?


liberalism(socialism) will only work in two places, in heaven where they dont need it, and in hell where they already have it.