Acceptable accuracy for a .357 carbine at 50 yds?

[Show Me]

It should shoot better than 6MOA. No question. Whether you're able to shoot better than 6moa with the support you employed and with the combination of iron sights and the target you used, well... Those influences may mean this hasn't been the best test of the true potential of the rifle. But in general, I expect most REVOLVERS to hold between 2.5-4MOA, so that carbine holding 6MOA would not pass my satisfaction. 1-2MOA is where I'd want to find that rifle, and I wouldn't tolerate worse than 3moa. But that would include a scope, bipod, and rear bag for me.

Support for sighting in , that's cool. A lever action deserves to be shot unsupported.

 

[Show Me]

I agree completely my Remlin 45-70 tightened up nicely just by installing a 1moa holographic. Kinda ruins the lever guns line with the holographic sitting on it but I shoot better with it on. Its my “brush gun” for running deer at 50 yards ish. And for that it’s killer I’ve dropped 2 big bucks (and a few does) with it trying to sneak out the back of a drive.

Got to do what works for you, right. I put a 2x7 on my standard 1895. Gags me to look at it

 

[Show Me]

A lot going on with a tube magazine lever gun. The front band can affect barrel vibrations; loosening the retaining screw can often help. Sights really make a difference; I put tang sights on lever guns; it really lets old guys shoot irons. There's an 'ivory' bead on mine now, too. The number of rounds in the magazine can make a difference. All that said, not really sure these are meant to be a gun for bragging groups. We have a dangling tie plate, 90 yards away, down at camp. I can whack that off my hind legs. That keeps me entertained.
When spring is on the meadow, I'll make a range run with the intent of dialing in the sights a little finer; I'll shoot for groups as well. We'll see.
Moon

Haven't tried tang sight yet. Got set up for drill and tap R92's for receiver sight then wasn't happy with the look. Bull's eye sight is very fast on 16 inch models. 24 inch wear receiver sights. Been meaning to try one of those flip up tang sights when projects rotate that way. Beads bother my aim so I use the file to height skinner. Like square edges. Lever actions are like Lay's potato chips and didn't cost much.

 

[chris in va]

On a side note, is there a sight other than the factory buckhorn that compensates for using 357 and 38? I was thinking of something along the lines of the peep sight on my Garand.

 

[Varminterror]

A lever action deserves to be shot unsupported.

A levergun deserves to be shot in whatever way maximizes it’s performance for the application at hand.

I can’t fathom any logic in hamstringing a levergun with relatively poor offhand support to disqualify it from performing, just for the sake of nostalgic whimsy.

Lever actions are like Lay's potato chips and didn't cost much.

Where have you been the last 20 years?

 

[Show Me]

A levergun deserves to be shot in whatever way maximizes it’s performance for the application at hand.

I can’t fathom any logic in hamstringing a levergun with relatively poor offhand support to disqualify it from performing, just for the sake of nostalgic whimsy.



Where have you been the last 20 years?

Well let me explain simple like to Mr serious. Lays potato chips you can't have just one.
R92's were under 450.00 so I was buying two a month.
Leverguns are fun to shoot. If you can't fathom anything but bench shooting then you be you. Real world off hand shooting is highly educational. Mr arrogant welcome member of this conversation. Opinions are like bung holes. What has the last 20 years have anything to do with anything.

 

[dieselchief]

pop can every shot at 25 yards, quart oil bottle at 50, milk jug as far as i can see naked eye.... scoped and rested > double the ranges i just suggested

 

[Show Me]

pop can every shot at 25 yards, quart oil bottle at 50, milk jug as far as i can see naked eye.... scoped and rested > double the ranges i just suggested

Very reasonable and fun. Achievable buy most .

 

[.45Coltguy]

Sounds about right. I have a Remlin 1894 made in 2018. It's ever bit as nice as my Ruger/ Marlin 336. My 94 really likes 180gr RNFP Coated bullets with 11.5grs of 2400. I'm a big fan of 2400 powder for my pistol caliber carbines. The coated bullets works as good as any.

Just keep trying different loads/ammo until you find one your gun likes. IMO, your not going to find a better carbine than the one you have.

Ha! I believe I know you! Think the deserts might be a little chilly right now?

 

[Picher]

I don't have .357 carbine, but my Henry Classic in 45colt is about 1- 1/2 moa at best with FTX , consistently about 2moa with Hard Cast. I wouldn't expect less than 2moa with any lever carbine, but some will do a little better with the right handload. 3" groups are what I would expect at at 100yds,. 50yds ,you should be able to get under 2", but maybe not with iron sights.

When I had a rifle with a receiver sight, it could print under 1" at 50 yards. Later, a bolt-action rifle with 2.5X scope could print 1/2" or better at 100 yards. It took several deer and other game/varmints for several years. Finally, I managed to get a 2.5-8X scope and though I could see small objects at greater range, it grouped a little better than 3/8" at 100 yards, with handloads. Later again, I had a .22-250 that I bedded and handloaded for that would group 1/4" most of the time. It was great on varmints and I even killed a few deer with it, with the right bullets/loads.

I still handload, but don't shoot as many varmints these days. I did manage to shoot coyotes in my son's fields. A couple were "runners" ...going away from me at over 200 yards that I killed with one-shot each from either my .223 or .243. Most recently, a woodchuck that dug a burrow in my back lawn, a mere 25 yards from my back steps...paid the ultimate price.

 

[Speedo66]

I have a Rossi that cannot be scoped…

Is it an octagon barrel? Otherwise a scout scope will work on it.

 

[brewer12345]

Is it an octagon barrel? Otherwise a scout scope will work on it.

Octagon.

 

[PO2Hammer]

They make a red dot mount that fits rear sight dovetails on lever guns.
https://www.turnbullrestoration.com/red-dot-mounts/

 

[tarosean]

If I am seeing 6 MOA at 50yrs that damn thing is going in the garbage.

 

[brewer12345]

They make a red dot mount that fits rear sight dovetails on lever guns.
https://www.turnbullrestoration.com/red-dot-mounts/

Yes, I have one. When I can't see the peep any more, I will mount it.

 

[CraigC]

With irons, I suggest shooting 25 yards.......I have better than 20/20 distance vision, and there's no way I can see to put a front sight one side of a MOA or the other at 100 yards.

If your eyesight is good and the rifle is MOA-capable, there is no reason why you can't shoot MOA with iron sights.

 

[Varminterror]

R92's were under 450.00 so I was buying two a month.

And they're $1000 MSRP, $700 street today...

I bought a bunch of Win 94's and Marlin 1894's when they were $250-350, hell my first Marlin 1895 Cowboy was only $420 including tax out the door... But that's a long time gone...

Quite foolish to try to paint me into a box - especially bench shooting... Can't be any farther off of the mark... But it's absolutely true to acknowledge that no matter what kind of imaginary superpowers someone tries to assign to themselves, offhand shooting cannot and does not get the best performance out of the rifles. Shooting offhand measures only the shooter, and hamstrings the rifle. As has been discussed here, even revolver cartridge carbine leverguns should hang onto 2moa or better when given proper support and combination of sight and target, but not many folks are truly capable of holding anywhere close to 2MOA when shooting offhand - Lean on a tree, a fence post, or a pair of shooting sticks or crossed trekking poles, but get some kind of support under the rifle and the in-field performance of the levergun skyrockets.

If a guy wants to make noise and beat up big targets at short ranges, then great. But a levergun deserves to get more respect for performance than what almost ANY shooter can deliver offhand.

 

[Varminterror]

If your eyesight is good and the rifle is MOA-capable, there is no reason why you can't shoot MOA with iron sights.

^ This and if a target is used which agrees with the sights is used.

 

[Rodfac]

My Marlin built 1894 CS with a 2.5x scope mounted will do less than 2" at 50 yds with most any .357 load I've tried; and these are groups shot off the porch rail with a folded towel as the only support...the gun is just that good.

It's the best shooting Marlin or Winchester lever action I own. Handloads with Hornady's 158 XTP FN, should do fine for you, backed by 296, 110, or #9 a cpl grains below max loadings. The XTP FN is designed for rifle use and will hold together better than the more common 158 XTP bullet.

With carefully scanned home-cast bullets (Lyman's 358156 GC, w/AC wheel weight alloy and sized to 0.360"), it'll do the same at 100 yds, and do it for seven rounds with a heated bbl. I use annealed Hornady GC's with this bullet. The annealing seems to give me better accuracy.

It's the bottom one in the pic below, but with a Williams WGRS, IIRC, peep mounted.

HTH's Rod

​

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

I put a Williams peep sight on my 1894 when I bought it about 30 years ago and I can hit generic 12oz soda cans at 50 yards with every shot. I don't shoot much paper with any of my guns as I figure that is only for zeroing whatever method of sighting you have on a firearm. I shoot at a private range 90% of the time so I can use interesting target materials. Years ago the owner pulled a rather large pine tree up just past the 100 yard mark and we had a lot of fun shooting the branches off for a number of years.

 

[Show Me]

My Marlin built 1894 CS with a 2.5x scope mounted will do less than 2" at 50 yds with most any .357 load I've tried; and these are groups shot off the porch rail with a folded towel as the only support...the gun is just that good.

It's the best shooting Marlin or Winchester lever action I own. Handloads with Hornady's 158 XTP FN, should do fine for you, backed by 296, 110, or #9 a cpl grains below max loadings. The XTP FN is designed for rifle use and will hold together better than the more common 158 XTP bullet.

With carefully scanned home-cast bullets (Lyman's 358156 GC, w/AC wheel weight alloy and sized to 0.360"), it'll do the same at 100 yds, and do it for seven rounds with a heated bbl. I use annealed Hornady GC's with this bullet. The annealing seems to give me better accuracy.

It's the bottom one in the pic below, but with a Williams WGRS, IIRC, peep mounted.

HTH's Rod

​

I knew when he started this there would be good pictures

 

[35 Whelen]

I’d say if you’re not fairly accomplished with the factory sights on such a rifle, you’re doing pretty well. Those sights aren’t something I’d use to judge the rifles accuracy.

@DMW1116 beat me to it.

How are you with other rifles and iron sights?

35W

 

[Show Me]

And they're $1000 MSRP, $700 street today...

I bought a bunch of Win 94's and Marlin 1894's when they were $250-350, hell my first Marlin 1895 Cowboy was only $420 including tax out the door... But that's a long time gone...

Quite foolish to try to paint me into a box - especially bench shooting... Can't be any farther off of the mark... But it's absolutely true to acknowledge that no matter what kind of imaginary superpowers someone tries to assign to themselves, offhand shooting cannot and does not get the best performance out of the rifles. Shooting offhand measures only the shooter, and hamstrings the rifle. As has been discussed here, even revolver cartridge carbine leverguns should hang onto 2moa or better when given proper support and combination of sight and target, but not many folks are truly capable of holding anywhere close to 2MOA when shooting offhand - Lean on a tree, a fence post, or a pair of shooting sticks or crossed trekking poles, but get some kind of support under the rifle and the in-field performance of the levergun skyrockets.

If a guy wants to make noise and beat up big targets at short ranges, then great. But a levergun deserves to get more respect for performance than what almost ANY shooter can deliver offhand.

Your enthusiasm is awesome. I'm sure the OP got plenty to go on.

 

[Rodfac]

This'll work too...Williams Fool Proof receiver sight....this is on my M-39 Marlin Century Limited .22, but works equally well with any lever action that's drilled for the mounting screws on the left top of the receiver. Not as good as a scope, but out to 100 yds, it's close, and both are light years more precise than open notch iron sights.

I'm 77 now and can still shoot the peep with good loads into 2" at 100 with a supported rest. For hunting, in timber or dim light, just remove the peep insert and use it as a ghost ring. Best regards, Rod

​

 

[Trey Veston]

I will pick up some Hornady XTPs in 158gr and I have plenty of H110.