Accuracy from a 1911 Colt

[mikemyers]

I asked a similar question a long time ago, but I think I asked it incorrectly.

I have an older 1911 Colt Combat Commander. It has never shot accurately, either for the previous owner, or for me. Following advice from this forum, I replaced the (very loose fit) barrel bushing with a new one, which improved the accuracy somewhat.

I read in this forum several months ago, that when the 1911 is ready to fire, everything in the gun is locked-up in a very precise position. I'm wondering right now whether there might be something else to check out - that, or simply send the gun back to Colt.



I'm not an expert shooter. With targets at 15 yards, my groupings were around 6" with the Colt, and half that with a relative's Wilson. After a lot of practice and trying what I've read in books and here, my groupings last weekend were down to under 3" with a Dan Wesson '45, and the same with my S&W revolver, again at 15 yards.

Maybe I mis-led people here, when I started asking about clearances between barrel and bushing. I know this particular Colt is very loose, but I'm not convinced that is the problem regarding accuracy.

(Instead of fighting the Colt, I put it away for a while, and tried improving my shooting with revolvers. I figured when/if I got better, I would give the Colt another try. I've just got this nagging feeling that it's something very different from everything the past owner or I ever thought of. ....I did show it to a "gun person" at a local gun store, who said it was fine. I posted photos here, and was told lots of parts needed attention. If that's what it is, the choices are to send it back to Colt, or to put it aside and just buy another gun. Are there any simple things I can check out myself, before doing that?)

 

[owlhoot]

Generally speaking, a hard fitted bushing will have a greater positive impact on 1911 accuracy than any other single thing you can do (assuming a good barrel). Second thing to check is the link. This little piece controls the lock up (timing) of your pistol, and if you aren't having any other problems with the gun, the link is probably fine. The third thing to look at is the barrel. A barrel can look good but still be a problem. Bar-Sto used to sell and install a barrel kit and guarantee two inch groups at 25 yards. I don't know if they are still around or not. A good barrel makes a huge difference. One thing I feel confident to tell you, You are not going to make your pistol into a shooter without spending some money.

For what it's worth, I've owned 30 or 40 Colt Government models, Commanders of both flavors, Gold Cups, and National Match guns over the years. Still have eight of them. And they are not all created equal. I've owned a few like yours that did not shoot worth spit. Colt won't do a thing about such guns. (Ruger won't either.)

This leaves you with three choices. One, you can sell the gun. Two, you can live with it warts and all. Three, you can make your gun into a shooter which won't be cheap. You should check to see if Bar-Sto is still around and if they still install their barrels. If so, that and a trigger job, if needed, and you would be good to go. That is the least expensive way I know of to make lemonade out of a lemon.

 

[tarosean]

.I did show it to a "gun person" at a local gun store, who said it was fine.

Judging by the posts from the thread a couple years ago. that person should have been a gunsmith was that the case???

I would personally check the lugs to ensure they are okay.. If so have a new barrel fitted . Its certainly cheaper than a new gun.


you can find some advice on an old thread here.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=88237

 

[1911Tuner]

Check to see if the lower barrel lug is standing on the link instead of properly bearing on the slidestop crosspin. That can cause an accuracy problem.

 

[243winxb]

Guns that dont shoot get traded fast, most times.

 

[mikemyers]

tarosean - I went to the range and asked if I could speak to their gunsmith. One thing led to another. I was given the impression his was their gunsmith, but my ESP was telling me otherwise. He never measured anything, or looked really close at the gun with a magnifier..... He didn't do what i would have expected a gunsmith to do, based on a lot of reading and talking to people since then.


owlhoot, in my discussions with people before, I never was looking for a "cheap" solution. I assumed I'd be spending two or three hundred dollars, but that assumption was made in complete ignorance. I'm still extremely ignorant, which leads to a question for 1911tuner...

1911Tuner, can you point me to a discussion here, or an article I can research, so I will understand what you mean by "Check to see if the lower barrel lug is standing on the link instead of properly bearing on the slidestop crosspin. That can cause an accuracy problem. " I'm assuming that once I know what this means, I'll know how to do the check you suggested.

==============================================

Having said all that, I just did another search for a Miami Florida Gunsmith, and ended up talking to the owner of "Miami Gunsmith & Refinishing" (http://www.absolutetacticalsolutions.com/Armorer-Services.html ). Robert told me he is now the official gunsmith for the range I mentioned earlier - has been with them for the past year or so. He also told me that the people I spoke to way back when are not gunsmiths. At some point in the future, I'll be bringing him the gun to sort out. He sounds very confident that whatever the problem might be, he'll be able to take care of it.

 

[1911Tuner]

Mike...Sorry that I didn't elaborate. Time wasn't on my side earlier today.

It's a simple check. Remove the barrel and slip the slidestop pin through the link. Swing the link to the in-battery position and look to see if the link is holding it away from the lower barrel lug. If it is, there's one of two issues. Either the lower lug is out of spec, or the barrel has been long-linked by someone who was laboring under the mistaken belief that it "increased the lockup" without understanding exactly why the link is there...and what using a longer link than is correct for the gun can potentially do.

 

[mikemyers]

1911Tuner, let's see if I properly understand you.

At the 5:00 minute mark of this video:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H3IFJXxyEs)
...it shows the internal workings of the 1911 as the barrel moves up and forward, and locks in place. I think you're suggesting that the lug or the link is worn or defective, and that the barrel is not being properly locked in place.

I'm probably still in the first grade when it comes to understanding the 1911, but if the barrel doesn't lock in place properly, that sounds (to me) like it would cause erratic shooting.


I'll try out your suggestion, and probably take new photos of all the parts, and now that I've found a real Locksmith, I feel a lot more comfortable that the gun can be improved to the point where the only limitation is my own lack of ability.

Thanks again.

 

[1911Tuner]

The animation doesn't really show what I was referring to.

Just slip the slidestop crosspin through the link...swing it to the in-battery position...which will be just slightly past dead vertical...and see if the crosspin makes contact at the bottom of the lower lug. It should also fit closely in the curved rear portion of the lug feet.

I'll relate a short story...condensed version.

A casual acquaintance approached me at the range where I shoot to ask me about an issue with his pistol. He'd noticed that pressing on the barrel hood would cause the barrel to drop ever-so-slightly, so he long-linked it because somebody told him that it would tighten the vertical fit of his barrel...which it did...but he also said that instead of increased accuracy, it had actually gotten worse...which is usually the case with a cherry-picked factory drop-in barrel.

It seems that there was a trend in long-linking for a while a few years back, because I encountered it pretty often.

The function of the link is getting the barrel out of the slide at the correct time. That's all it's there for. Changing the link's on-center length in a properly timed gun alters the linkdown and drop timing of the barrel, which usually doesn't end well. At the very least, accuracy suffers. At the worst, the barrel doesn't get out of the slide in time for the upper lugs to clear the mating lugs in the slide, and does some pretty expensive damage.