Accuracy: how do you guys gauge how you are doing?

[PythonFan]

I am somewhat new, purchased my first handgun back in May (a 4" Colt Python), and my second in July (a CZ 75B stainless). Anyway, I have put between 1000 and 1500 rounds through each of them. I have gotten to where I can fire about 4" groups at 15 yards with only a few flyers. I want to get better though and am having trouble figuring out what to do. It seems that after I put about 20 rounds into a target it is hard to tell exactly where I am hitting and at the range, you have to wait a LONG time before they call a cease fire to go change the targets.

I have thought about getting the NRA 50 foot slow fire and rapid fire pistol targets and actually scoring them. Do any of you do this? Does it help?

There is also an indoor range that costs a little more but you can change targets whenever you want. I don't like it as much because they won't let you fire magnum rounds or JHP's. I am starting to think that it may be better though since I can buy a big pack of targets for scoring and change them whenever I want to.

Any suggestions appreciated.

 

[Soybomb]

Make a bigger target so you can practice more between target changes. A big piece of stiff cardboard with maybe 6 paper plates stapled to it isn't a pretty target but it will let you shoot several different groups if you're currently using a bullseye or silhouette. If you're into buying preprinted targets my range sells some that I buy that is a silhouette sized sheet but has like 5 mini-silhouettes on it (we call it a 5 man there) or one with 5 bowling pins printed on it. Even some brightly colored stickers on cardboard spaced further apart than your usual group size should let you fire several different groups between target changes. be creative.

 

[Archie]

Accuracy...

When I first started shooting a handgun, all my groups were low and left and tended to elongate from upper right to lower left. I was tightening my hand when I shot and being right handed, that threw shots low and left. So my first goal was to shoot a 'round' group instead of that ovate UR to LL string.

I read a lot of Jeff Cooper's writing in those days. (I still do, by the way.) He said one should be able to shoot and hit all shots in a six inch circle at twenty-five yards as a basic standard before moving on to 'combat' shooting. So my goal - after attaining the first goal above - was to keep all my shots as directed by Cooper. Then I could shoot a six inch group at 25 yards with some flyers - and then I worked on getting rid of the flyers.

This was in the late '60s to early '70s. Bullseye shooting was the mainstay and I learned to shoot Bullseye. My progress was based on
a. Getting all shots on the target backing, then
b. Getting all shots within the scoring rings, then
c. Getting all shots in the black...
d. Getting all shots in the 10 rings..
and so on.

Python, I don't know your goals or aspirations. You're shooting four inch groups with some flyers at fifteen yards, okay. When you get rid of the flyers, move it out to 25 and work down to four inch groups with no flyers.

How do I guage (and I appreciate you can spell that word, by the way) my shooting progress? I constantly seek to do better than I did in the past.

Don't worry about weekly scores - they tend to go up and down depending on how you feel, how the wife or girlfriend is feeling, what you had for lunch and so on. But check on your scores from last year; are they consistently better?

And shoot in competition. Don't worry about how you shoot now; the best motivation for shooting in the ninties is to shoot again folks who consistently shoot in the ninties. An old axiom of Bullseye shooting, and probably any competitive activity, is "You never shoot better than your competition".

If you're the best shooter on the range, you never get better; there's no reason to get better. As long as someone is beating you, you'll work harder to win. Besides, the guys who beat you know what they're doing and will usually give you tips and suggestions on how to do better.

 

[C-grunt]

I think Archie hit it square on the head. I look around at other peoples targets, if theirs are better than mine, I try to shoot as good as them. I also have a competition with my father every time we go to the range. He has a better target gun than me( Kimber Gold Cup vs. my Glock23) but I am a better shooter than he is. So this way, I win about 50% of the time. I won on Thursday by putting five rounds at 25 yards into a group smaller than my palm, my new personal best. If you have someone to compete against, it will drive you to perform better.

 

[wally]

One shot, one down steel plate, repeat until the rack is cleaned. Its as good as it gets, then I try to do it again faster.

I see no point of trying to shoot them all thru the same hole. YMMV.

--wally.

 

[Magnumite]

I'll pass onto you what a highly experience bullseye shooter told me when I was beginning to shoot bullseye. "Get this book (he held up "The Pistolshooter's Treasury", available at Gil Hebard Guns), and a spotting scope".

You may not need the spotting scope at 15 yards, but that book has all the basics in it. Something I did was shoot very difficult targets after my training time each shooting session. Things like an empty 50 round 22 cartridge box at 25 yards (or 15). And I shot for group for a looonnnnnggggg time.

You are doing okay, offhand 4" at 15 yards. Keep working, read the book and you'll be underway. Good luck.

One other thing, learning to shoot one handed bullseye form is a VERY good training method. BTDT

 

[DunedinDragon]

I think the most important thing you can do to improve your skills is to look at the PATTERN of your shots rather than the specific holes you might make after each shot. Given that you are consistently trying to hit the bullseye, it's probably not likely that you group is absolutely centered on the bullseye. Try and figure out where your grouping is located relative to bullseye center and adjust from there. Also look at the direction of the pattern. Does it tend to drop low, or low and to the left, up and to the right...etc. This allows you to refine your aiming and control. Whatever pattern you're producing at 15 yards is going to be that much more dramatic at 20 or 25 yards, and that pattern is what you're trying to fix.

 

[Geno]

Target Shooting Versus Point Shooting?

My first question would be, what is your ultimate goal: 1) CCW carry or 2) competitive shooting?

For me, there were 2 factors that helped me immensely:

1) Practicing point shooting (I personally experience much fewer "fliers" when point shooting than when attentively using the iron sights)

2) Practicing on small, metallic, self-resetting targets (There is an old saying, "Aim small; miss small". Trust me, it is true!)

Start with the swinging metallic target close-in, say 10 yards, and move it out. You don't have to worry about the bullet bouncing back. They are designed to deflect the bullet downward into the dirt.

At present, I can hit a 4" metallic target 9 of 10 shots at 50 yards.) Best of all, with metallic targets, there is no guessing if you hit...Ting & Swing!!! Alternately you could buy a shooting tree.

For what it's worth, this is the very same technique I used to develop my varmint shooting abilities. Groundhogs love that sound.

I can't post of pic of the swinging target because it's at the family farm. I do have the shooting tree here at home though. This shooting tree can be used with pistol or rifle up to .30-06 Sprg. Keep a wire brush and two cans of paint on hand. When the finish gets worn (knocked) off, just brush, repaint and keep shooting.

Here's the pic:

View attachment 275123

Doc2005

 

[Japle]

Learning to shoot accurately requires, I say again, requires, that you learn the basics. Sight picture, sight alignment, trigger control, follow-through and calling the shot are necessary.

The last three are much more difficult to learn if you’re shooting a handgun with any noticeable recoil.
Dry firing is a big help. You can set up a 3” dot target in the house and dry fire 10 shots, slow fire. Call your shots and keep score. How many hits?

Once you get to where you’re calling 10 out of 10 hits, reduce the dot to 2”, then 1”.

It’s been said many times and it’s true: Anyone can line up the sights, but trigger control is the key.

You must learn to fire the gun without disturbing the sights if you’re going to achieve good, consistent accuracy.

John
Cape Canaveral

 

[Furncliff]

Have you used the "Shoot n' See" targets?

 

[XavierBreath]

Years ago I purchased a case of index cards. I still use them as targets. Because they are cheap, I change them often. I will also use paper plates, and even scraps of used black silhouette targets folded up into squares and taped on a light colored background. At a range where I cannot swap out targets when I like, I simply tape up eight index cards or squares across the cardboard. I also carry a small set of binoculars in my range bag to check my shots if I am shooting at a distance I cannot easily analyze.

If I am shooting for accuracy rather than speed, I will stick one of the small Shoot n See type targets on the card or paper plate. If I am feeling cheap, I will simply stick the extra dot from these targets that most folks toss aside. every range seems to have them in the garbage. One's accuracy tends to improve in response to the job at hand. If you shoot at big black dots, your groups will be good enough to hit big black dots. If you shoot at little black dots, your groups will tighten.

Japle has it dead to rights. Trigger control is the key. Being able to pull the trigger to sear break without disturbing the sight alignment is the key to marksmanship. If you are flash sight shooting or point shooting, the same principle applies. The key is trigger control.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

This is the Holy Grail, my 1938 Colt Woodsman, with a full magazine (10 shots) of .22 Remington hollowpoints, shot with a modified Weaver grip from 25 yards. The group is about 1 3/4".

 

[MrZ]

"Accuracy: how do you guys gauge how you are doing?"

Accuracy is defined by the shooter, and what goal that particular shooter has, therefore assessing accuracy is completely shooter dependant. Examples of shooter goals are bullseye target shooting, steel target shooting, and "practical/defensive" shooting. The degree of accuracy required in each of these events varies based on the individual goal.

I focus primarily on "practical/defense" training, but also conduct some bull training as well. My goal is to develop and sustain "combat accuracy", which differs from "accuracy" in and of itself.

"Combat accuracy" is the compromise between SPEED (firing the first and follow up shots quickly) and ACCURACY (landing the rounds in a lethal zone). Combat accuracy differs from the accuracy needed for target/bull shooting in that speed is more important, and accuracy is not as demanding. 4 inches from the sternum is not as significant as 4 inches from the 10 ring...

With this in mind, I assess my accuracy based on my shot groups and times. My goal is to shoot as fast as possible while maintaining 80% of my rounds in a 6 inch group. When my group gets tighter, it's time to speed up. When my group gets bigger, I know I need to slow down. Shot times will naturally increase as range to target increases.

Dry fire and slow aimed grouping is the foundation I use to build on combat accuracy. I always incorporate slow aimed grouping drills for accuracy prior to moving on to develop combat accuracy. In these drills I again use my shot groups to identify and attempt (key word there lol!) to correct any fundamental errors. My goal is to shoot as accurately as the handgun will allow, ie, at least 1 inch groups out to 10 meters.

To assess your accuracy, first determine your goals (target vs. practical accuracy).

Do research, or get training to establish a sound fundamental base in the shooting you opt to pursue. You can't correct yourself and improve unless you can identify what fundamental errors you are making.

Use the SMALLEST target possible. Rather than a bull target, I simply turn the target over and place 1 inch "pasties" on the clean side and shoot groups as needed at each range. This gives me multiple targets to shoot at without having to replace or paste targets as frequently.

Get a set of bino's or a spotting scope so you can assess your shot groups without the need to go down range, or reel your target back in.

Good luck.

 

[gandog56]

I like to buy a big target, and then place little flourescent orange stick on target dots all over it. That way a can fire multi groups in one sitting. I usually fire one clip or one cylinder at each dot.

 

[PythonFan]

Thanks for all the good info guys. I guess my goal is to be able to shoot the best I can, whether it be bullseye or defensive. I realize they are totally different. It is a bit harder to practice defensive shooting at a public range because of the rules about drawing from a holster and such. Anyways, I got a bunch of good ideas and will put them to use.

 

[goings_51]

I see a lot of people who use the little dots that come with the packages of target stickers. You can usually find piles of them in the trash at the range. Just put the dots into a patern of 5 or so on a standard target and go to town.

One guy at my range even sets them up in rows and gives them one shot each.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I go to the range and basically try and work on just one aspect of my shooting. As I am driving out to the range I usually think about it and say, ok, we have not been working on trigger release, or lets focus on the front sight during recoil. Then during the range session I try and focus on that one aspect and do it better every time. The rest of the techniques seem to come along on their own.

So at the end of the session while I am driving home I ask myself if I did better then when I got there? If so, then I make a note on what I did the worst that day to work on it next time.

Remember work on what you do the worst, not hone what you do well.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Accuracy: how do you guys gauge how you are doing?
----------------------------------------------------

Anymore, seldom can I shoot as well as the gun can shoot.

So if the gun is capable of shooting 2 inches at 25 yards or 1 inch at 100 yards and I'm not doing that consistantly, then I'm not shooting good enough.

I have my own ranges so I don't have the problems like waiting to change targets.

As has been suggested put some target dots on your target for extra bullseyes.

Also put a one or two inch dot in the center of the target. That's your target, not the whole big bullseye or "center of mass".
As has been said,
Aim small, hit small.