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Dry firing wisdom sought

T

thunderbyrd

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2021
Messages
423
Location
kentucky
20230827_133028.jpg

i provide the above photo for your amusement. this was my latest range visit. you will notice that i have taped 3 small paper plates to my target. this is because without them i have a hard time seeing where my rounds are hitting, especially on a black target. this is about 7-8 yards.

this actually is about the best, most accurate shooting i've done, and i know it's not great. i only know of two ways to improve: go work out at the range, which gets expensive, and dry firing. i notice that whenever you guys post targets, all of you shoot much better than me. SO i am interested in various dry firing techniques/routines that you use.
 
on the middle plate, that was my SA Ronin 9mm. 115 target ammo. on the plate at the top, the ronin again, but i fired a few rounds of 147 silvertip and a few 124 hp. this is the first time i ever tried HP in this gun and i was very happy. i actually shot it a bit better. this is also the first time i ever loaded 9+1 and it worked just great.

now, the mess on the bottom plate. this was my lovely SA-35. shoots like a champ, has never failed, but as you can see, gruesomely low and left. see where my hits are around the center? i was aiming at 1 o'clock. trigger so different from what i've gotten used to.

so, you see that i need some improvement.
 
Looks like youre doing OK. :)

The more you shoot and work at things, the better you get.

I dry fire a number of different things, and in different ways, every day. Its a great way to work on the basics, and keep your muscle memory and muscle tone up.

From a pure basic shooting standpoint, pick a spot in the room that has a safe background and work on your sight alignment and trigger, etc. The sights shouldnt move when the trigger lets off.

I put a snap cap (one that is a different color than a normal round too) in most things Im dry firing. Most guns dont need them these days, its just another level of safety. Cant have a live round in the gun if you just cleared it and put a snap cap in it.

Dry fire isnt just snapping a trigger at a target on the wall, pretty much anything you would do in live fire, you can practice in dry fire, and its a lot safer to work on things like presentations, drawing from your holster, etc, so you can learn and become comfortable doing things.
 
the only dry fire routine i have is to put a quarter or a round on top of the barrel and squeeze through DA and try not to drop the coin or round. i was told once that this is nonsense, but i know that years ago i got into the habit of doing this and went to the range to qualify that year, i fired in the 90s instead of the 70s. and the next year, i had let the practice go and i didn't do so well.
 
All of your hits are potentially lethal on a live target. If you are primarily interested in self defense, you are doing fine. Although your point of aim with SA 35 indicates hits are low and left.

I've broken firing pins and strikers dry firing without snap caps, so i recommend using them even if the gun manual says it's okay to dry fire. A simple trick is to put a coin on the receiver. If it stays in place after the break, you are doing well with your trigger press. The next step is one of the Mantis X unit which gives you feedback on your technique.

My SA 35 shoots to point of aim, so I don't know what's happening with yours since the Ronin probably has a similar trigger pull? Lots of theories about low/left. Too much or too little finger on the trigger. Squeezing with all fingers instead of just the trigger finger. Anticipating recoil. But you have good groups with Ronin so your technique is probably good unless the SA 35 has a much heavier trigger than the Ronin.

Sorry, that's all I got.
 
thunderbyrd said:
the only dry fire routine i have is to put a quarter or a round on top of the barrel and squeeze through DA and try not to drop the coin or round. i was told once that this is nonsense, but i know that years ago i got into the habit of doing this and went to the range to qualify that year, i fired in the 90s instead of the 70s. and the next year, i had let the practice go and i didn't do so well.
Click to expand...
That drill never did anything for me but frustrate me trying to get the coin to stay on the gun until I got it up to eye level and try and snap the trigger. :)

I guess if you had help it might help, but you can do the same thing just watching your sight alignment as you stroke/pull/press the trigger.

Working on holding the alignment as you focus on a target of some sort (or even just a blank wall) and watching the sights remain still as the trigger breaks will be a big help.

The more you practice, the better you get and the easier things get.

If you have a DA revolver, dry firing it DAO will be a big help with anything you shoot.
 
I myself don't dry fire. Unless needed for removing a slide. Or testing trigger weight. I do shoot indoors with an air pistol to help with keeping skills up. The white over black does help a lot with seeing your hits.
 
Dry firing means "THERE IS NO LIVE AMMUNITION IN THE ROOM"
then there is:
1. understanding and holding the correct sight picture
2. trigger pull to avoid jerking and messing up the sight picture

There is an excellent book "The Pistol Shooter's Treasury" probably long out of print. I had bought 6 copies and gave them to new shooters as a training guide.
Bottom line: "Align the sights properly on your point of aim and cause the hammer to fall without disturbing that alignment."

Also when you do practice with live ammo, use a snap cap mixed in with the other ammo.....helps to have a friend load for you so you do not know where it is. You will be able to see your flinch (bad trigger pull) and loss of correct sight picture.
 
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We trained dry firing with a fired cartridge case balanced on the front sight. Worked well to keep things in place during the trigger pull. No ammo near the gun!!!

I would have a friend put a dummy round or three hidden somewhere in your magazines. Not having the gun fire when you expect it to is a great way to show yourself if you are flinching or are tensing up and anticipating the shot.

Anticipating is my Achilles heel. I do my best to avoid it but I still catch myself doing it on occasion. It leads to results like these from Friday all the time for me; a decent group fired, with a flyer or two outside of where I want them. (At 10y. I put a .45 high and a 9mm high and left.)

IMG_2700.jpeg

Just takes time, and good practice, to bring them all together.

Keep it up, you are doing fine. :thumbup:

Stay safe.
 
Dry fire is your friend. Every good shooter with a rifle and/or handgun that I know has spent hours and hours dry firing. I couldn't afford the ammo necessary to get in that much trigger time. It won't help you with learning how to deal with recoil and rapid shooting. But it will help you master trigger control.
 
about snap caps: i have 6 38sp caps. and i now have a 686+. would it provide adequate protection to use a spent case in that 7th chamber?

i always wonder if snap caps really do what they are supposed to do.
 
Riomouse911 said:
We trained dry firing with a fired cartridge case balanced on the front sight. Worked well to keep things in place during the trigger pull. No ammo near the gun!!!

I would have a friend put a dummy round or three hidden somewhere in your magazines. Not having the gun fire when you expect it to is a great way to show yourself if you are flinching or are tensing up and anticipating the shot.

Anticipating is my Achilles heel. I do my best to avoid it but I still catch myself doing it on occasion. It leads to results like these from Friday all the time for me; a decent group fired, with a flyer or two outside of where I want them. (At 10y. I put a .45 high and a 9mm high and left.)

View attachment 1168647

Just takes time, and good practice, to bring them all together.

Keep it up, you are doing fine. :thumbup:

Stay safe.
Click to expand...
See! i think i should shoot more like this!
 
thunderbyrd said:
about snap caps: i have 6 38sp caps. and i now have a 686+. would it provide adequate protection to use a spent case in that 7th chamber?

i always wonder if snap caps really do what they are supposed to do.
Click to expand...

They can serve a couple of purposes. Most guns these days dont need them, but it cant hurt to use them.

As I said, I really only put them in as an added safety thing. You really dont need them, and Id probably not use any, rather than use something that looks just like a live round. The whole point for me, is to clearly see at a glance its not a live round, and if its there, there cant be a live round in the chamber.
 
In addition to safely dry firing at home, I like to dry fire at the range (example of 5 dry fire shots followed by a single well concentrated live round).

Also, I would use smaller targets than your plates at that range. 3X5” index cards are great.
 
Peakbagger46 said:
In addition to safely dry firing at home, I like to dry fire at the range (example of 5 dry fire shots followed by a single well concentrated live round).

Also, I would use smaller targets than your plates at that range. 3X5” index cards are great.
Click to expand...
yes, i am planning on smaller targets.

actually, have a plan on this - i would really like, someday, to find a bowling pin shoot. that looks like a lot of fun to me. so, at some point, when i go to the range, i'll take one of these targets and turn it around and draw 6 rectangles about 2" wide and 8" tall and shoot at those, at whatever distance that shooting is usually done.
 
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One of my practices for dry firing semiautomatics is that I have magazines dedicated to dry firing, and I use one a different color from the pistol. A blued handgun, a nickel or stainless magazine, a nickeled or stainless pistol, a blued magazine.
 
oh, and something about the target i posted above: you'll notice i shot him in the elbow several times. every time i go to the range, i shoot my last mag at the "gun elbow". don't know why, i just do. this was the first time i ever shot out his elbow without a flyer! i was pleased with myself on that one.
 
Dry fire is widely known to be good for trigger control. Some also know it's great for gun handling skills as well (there are countless drills for the latter). Much less known, but perhaps what's dry fire is best for is as a vision drill: To make a good shot, whether it's a slow-fire shot at the x-ring, or a rapid defensive-style shot, you need to see what you need to see, and your mind has to accept and process the info it gets from your eyes. This is key to good and effective shooting. You can have good trigger control, but if you're not really seeing a good sight picture with your eyes and mind, your shot won't be good.

My recommendation then, is to dry fire to work on your trigger control, of course, but also be really focused on seeing a good sight picture. It's easy to think we're focused on the front sight, but it's also easy to be not nearly as focused as we think we are. When dry firing then, really get your focus on that front sight. In this way, seeing a good sight picture will become habit during live fire, and your brain will also see and agree that it's a good sight picture. In a nutshell, then, a lot of shooting is visual & mental, and dry fire is an effective way of training that as well.
 
I was a PPC shooter. Timed and precision shooting is what got you on the winners platform. I shot a LOT of live rounds but probably dry fired 5x as many. My dry fire practice was simple. Forget putting some piece of crap on your barrel, sight, rib. Instead, choose a blank wall or use a large piece of cardboard. You do NOT want an aiming point. What you do want, is to concentrate on the front sight. So, with an empty gun and a blank wall, bring your piece up, focus on the front sight and squeeze. If the front sight moves, you did it wrong. It will be very obvious. Eventually, you will be able to squeeze the trigger and not disturb the sights. When you get to that stage, keep going!

I have not competed in 3 decades. I still dry fire 6-7 times a week. Why? Because I have and exercisde my CCW permit. I found out a very long time ago that if I did not practice, my scores went down. I also found out that if I dryfire between practices, there was no “getting used to the sights, recoil etc” in other words my shots were good and I did not need any excuses.

Good luck and keep practicing.

Kevin
 
thunderbyrd said:
View attachment 1168628

i provide the above photo for your amusement. this was my latest range visit. you will notice that i have taped 3 small paper plates to my target. this is because without them i have a hard time seeing where my rounds are hitting, especially on a black target. this is about 7-8 yards.

this actually is about the best, most accurate shooting i've done, and i know it's not great. i only know of two ways to improve: go work out at the range, which gets expensive, and dry firing. i notice that whenever you guys post targets, all of you shoot much better than me. SO i am interested in various dry firing techniques/routines that you use.
Click to expand...
Honestly that's not that bad, IMHO...
Seems like maybe you just need to get used to certain triggers or something? As an aside, how long have you been shooting handguns? If you are a newbie, that's better than most people at public ranges... Just look at the target hangers the next time you are at your local indoor range...
 
that looks pretty decent to me. how fast are you firing? something I figured out dry firing. take a pistol any pistol or revolver and grab it how you do, but lower it down in front of you and pull the trigger. watch the front sight very closely for a side to side movement. for me it was to the left and then it would come back to the middle. I was always pulling, and this showed up more with snub nose or the shorter the barrel, the more likely I was to be off to the left on the target. I messed with how I gripped the firearm, think I did this first with a full size Beretta 92, so - I didn't have the well it is hard to shoot a small gun excuse. eventually I figured out I really need to engage the heel of my left hand, and the left hand pushed into the right, and you're kind of holding it with your arms pushing to gether a little, or for me that is how it worked. this let me relax my fingers on my right hand, including trigger finger, and it is easier to pull straight back and not pull it to the left like I was doing. it was a big improvement overall to adjust my grip. arms bent just a little, and the recoil overall just became more manageable, faster follow up shots, etc. even with a little NAA Mini revolver I have. If I don't use part of the heel on my left hand I'm just gonna miss to the left, question is how much? In a line of cans on a board, maybe at 10 yards, I might miss 2 or 3 cans to the left. Not the revolver, all me.

There are a lot of things to try. natural point of aim is a good one. close your eyes, then bring up and aim at a target, then open your eyes. if you're spot on, good. if you're off, adjust your feet until you are spot on. I had to break my habit of leaning back too much, and bringing my right foot, right hand shooter, forward a little and leaning a bit into the shot, is more my natural point of aim and I'm just better for it.

and looking at those targets, if you could do that under pressure you're all good. never hurts for anyone to be better or just refining a skill, but I'm not a great shot by any means, better than when I started, but if I shot those targets thinking about self defense they would not give me any pause.
 
T'byrd - does this gun have a "laser sight" on it? If not, maybe you can get one of these cheap laser pointers, tape it under your barrel, then dry fire the gun. If you watch the laser's spot on the wall/target when you dry fire (or get a second pair of eyes to watch), you might see the spot "twitch" when you pull the trigger. That may help you figure out if you are "pulling" or "pushing" the gun when you fire.
Good luck.
 
Buy a cheap laser "boresight" cartridge from Amazon and use it for dryfire practice.

A laser boresight cartridge is constant "on". At 7 yards or farther it allows you to instantly see what you're doing wrong when you're working the trigger.

I suggest using a 4" circle target and practicing until you can consistently keep the laser inside the circle. Then work on pressing the trigger until the dot barely moves.

Focus on your sights; you'll automatically see where the laser is on the target.
 
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