wacki
Member
How does the accuracy of .22LR semi autos compare to .22LR bolt actions?
Thanks,
-W
Thanks,
-W
Accuracy of .22LR - Bolt action vs semi-auto
- Thread starter wacki
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bhk
Member
You never see semi-autos in bencrest competetion. That said, some autos (especially tricked-out ones) can compare favorably with mid-priced bolt guns. Bolt guns have the advantage of usually having better triggers, and good triggers contribute hugely to the 'shootability' of an otherwise accurate rifle. For example, I have Sako Finnfire bolt action .22 that has a 2 ounce Jewell trigger on it. Hard to find such a trigger for an auto.
For informal target practice and plinking, most folks will find either action quite suitable.
For informal target practice and plinking, most folks will find either action quite suitable.
MTMilitiaman
Member
I put a $30 competition hammer in my otherwise stock Ruger 10/22 and it serves me fine for anything I need a rimfire for. I can hit spent 12 gauge hulls at 50 yards with a 2.5-7 Weaver and bulk pack Federal, offhand supported over a car hood. So I think a decent semi-auto can provide all the practical accuracy most people need. However, if you're looking for that gilt edge accuracy, the bolt might be the only way to get there.
Smith357
Member
There are a few reasons why the accuracy edge goes to the bolt action rifle 22 vs the semi. Generally this edge is pretty thin but when you win or loose matches by hundredths of inches then it seems to matter.
Bolt action rifles can easily feed low velocity match ammo into tight match chambers where the bullet actually engages the rifling, whereas semi autos tend to jam up with such tight tolerances.
As previously mentioned triggers in bolt guns can be highly refined. My Walther UIT Super Match has the stock trigger set safely at 1/2 oz. My Anschutz and Kimber sporters factory triggers are set at 12 and 14 oz respectively.
Bolt action rifles can easily feed low velocity match ammo into tight match chambers where the bullet actually engages the rifling, whereas semi autos tend to jam up with such tight tolerances.
As previously mentioned triggers in bolt guns can be highly refined. My Walther UIT Super Match has the stock trigger set safely at 1/2 oz. My Anschutz and Kimber sporters factory triggers are set at 12 and 14 oz respectively.
Claymore1500
Member
I don't know what works for the most of you, but I have a Remington 513t that will center punch an empty .22mag shell at 50yds. and I have a cheap mossberg knock off semi auto that I can regularly shoot the buttons off of spray cans at the same distance.
I think that a lot depends on the gun but just as much depends on the shooter.
I think that a lot depends on the gun but just as much depends on the shooter.
Rembrandt
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I have both a Volquartsen 10/22 that was fine tuned by Tom Volquartsen himself and a number of Winchester 52's. Without question the bolt guns are superior. Shooting 50 yards at tin cans is not a good measure of what's accurate.....try some benchrest targets at 100 yards. At that distance it's as much about the ammo as the gun.
lost river rat
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- 34
Bolt guns
You bench rests 22LRs and measure your groups and somethings come to light. Quality bolt guns always out shoot the out of box autos. The auto action is usually rattling around in the stock and the thin barrels are vibrating with all the commotion. I spent about 50 hours trying to get a stock 10/22 to shoot. I got it from 2" down to a reliable 3/4 inch at 50. All of the stock autos I have tested shot about 1.5-2" at 50 regardless of ammo.
The modified Ruger 10/22 with a quality .990 bull barrel, neutral bedding and quality trigger can really shoot. I have seen one with a Lija barrel shoot with or better than some Anschutzes in competion. Probably cause the owner was a good shooter who could read the wind and was willing to sort lots of very expensive ammo Most people don't put a $350 barrel on a 10/22 and bed it.
If you want an accurate .22LR, go with a heavy barrel bolt gun with a good trigger. I bought a pair a Savage MKII heavy barrels just to try them. They have cut riflling and match chambers at a very low price. The barrels are not screwed into the receivers so I thought they wouln't shoot that great. Wrong. They shoot with the purpose built target guns and they are suprising un-picky about ammo. Specific lots of Eley shoot 1/4 inch at 50. Under 1/2" with boreing regularity. Both rifles do better than the .22LR bullet in a light breeze. You might consider one. They now have the excellent accutrigger.
I really recommend a good quality 3-9 or 4-12 scope you can set the parallex at 50 yards for target shooting. For a squirrel rifle, I like the 2-7 or 3-9 quality rimfire scopes. The parallex is set at 50 yards rather than 100-200 yards. Once you have good rifle and scope, ammo becomes the deciding factor for rimfire. The economy ammo, std high velocity copper washed, and regular target ammo varies wildly in each gun and most people wont feed their rifle much $10-$25 ammo.
Remember, with a .22LR, you sort through lots of ammo to find lots that work in your chamber. Even ultra expensive target ammo can shoot very poorly in some barrels (there are very good reasons for this do to bullet upset and size). You find out which high quality target ammo (Eley, Gold Metal, RWS, etc..) your gun likes and then which lots are the standouts. I have my own 1/2" outline circle targets in 2 rows of 6 on a piece of copier paper. IN ZERO WIND with a full set of bags and very best shooting techniques, I shoot a group with each lot of ammo with two rifles side by side (example: left column Savage MK II, right column custom barrel bolt gun and each row a different lot). It is amazing how one lot will do poorly in one rifle, but really good in another. When you find a standout lot, you buy more. With the very expensive ammo, I don't like to buy too many lots to try. I usually buy one lot, find the gun that likes it best and use it in that gun. If it really shoots, I buy in a good supply. I also sort lots of regular high velocity bulk ammo this way and some std target. Some lots shoot surprizing well in a particular barrel as long as it stays supersonic to the target. No rythm or reason to it. When I find a really good lot, I buy a bunch of it. The surplus bad ammo get run through the pistol or my kid shoots it up.
Probably more than you wanted to read. Buy a high quality heavy barrel bolt gun with a good trigger. The Savage it very economical and has the barrel quality and trigger you need. Put a quality scope on it ($75-120 is usually good enough), and test and sort ammo to find the ammo it likes. Watch the wind! Sorting and testing ammo will make you a much better shooter and that is the great part about serious rim fire shooting. I think you will be very satisfied with the results espcially when you start comparing targets with the "plinkers" at the range.
You bench rests 22LRs and measure your groups and somethings come to light. Quality bolt guns always out shoot the out of box autos. The auto action is usually rattling around in the stock and the thin barrels are vibrating with all the commotion. I spent about 50 hours trying to get a stock 10/22 to shoot. I got it from 2" down to a reliable 3/4 inch at 50. All of the stock autos I have tested shot about 1.5-2" at 50 regardless of ammo.
The modified Ruger 10/22 with a quality .990 bull barrel, neutral bedding and quality trigger can really shoot. I have seen one with a Lija barrel shoot with or better than some Anschutzes in competion. Probably cause the owner was a good shooter who could read the wind and was willing to sort lots of very expensive ammo Most people don't put a $350 barrel on a 10/22 and bed it.
If you want an accurate .22LR, go with a heavy barrel bolt gun with a good trigger. I bought a pair a Savage MKII heavy barrels just to try them. They have cut riflling and match chambers at a very low price. The barrels are not screwed into the receivers so I thought they wouln't shoot that great. Wrong. They shoot with the purpose built target guns and they are suprising un-picky about ammo. Specific lots of Eley shoot 1/4 inch at 50. Under 1/2" with boreing regularity. Both rifles do better than the .22LR bullet in a light breeze. You might consider one. They now have the excellent accutrigger.
I really recommend a good quality 3-9 or 4-12 scope you can set the parallex at 50 yards for target shooting. For a squirrel rifle, I like the 2-7 or 3-9 quality rimfire scopes. The parallex is set at 50 yards rather than 100-200 yards. Once you have good rifle and scope, ammo becomes the deciding factor for rimfire. The economy ammo, std high velocity copper washed, and regular target ammo varies wildly in each gun and most people wont feed their rifle much $10-$25 ammo.
Remember, with a .22LR, you sort through lots of ammo to find lots that work in your chamber. Even ultra expensive target ammo can shoot very poorly in some barrels (there are very good reasons for this do to bullet upset and size). You find out which high quality target ammo (Eley, Gold Metal, RWS, etc..) your gun likes and then which lots are the standouts. I have my own 1/2" outline circle targets in 2 rows of 6 on a piece of copier paper. IN ZERO WIND with a full set of bags and very best shooting techniques, I shoot a group with each lot of ammo with two rifles side by side (example: left column Savage MK II, right column custom barrel bolt gun and each row a different lot). It is amazing how one lot will do poorly in one rifle, but really good in another. When you find a standout lot, you buy more. With the very expensive ammo, I don't like to buy too many lots to try. I usually buy one lot, find the gun that likes it best and use it in that gun. If it really shoots, I buy in a good supply. I also sort lots of regular high velocity bulk ammo this way and some std target. Some lots shoot surprizing well in a particular barrel as long as it stays supersonic to the target. No rythm or reason to it. When I find a really good lot, I buy a bunch of it. The surplus bad ammo get run through the pistol or my kid shoots it up.
Probably more than you wanted to read. Buy a high quality heavy barrel bolt gun with a good trigger. The Savage it very economical and has the barrel quality and trigger you need. Put a quality scope on it ($75-120 is usually good enough), and test and sort ammo to find the ammo it likes. Watch the wind! Sorting and testing ammo will make you a much better shooter and that is the great part about serious rim fire shooting. I think you will be very satisfied with the results espcially when you start comparing targets with the "plinkers" at the range.
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22-rimfire
Member
A good bolt action 22 rifle will generally outshoot a good semi-auto 22 rifle. Why do you ask?
Pretty darn well, up to a point.
I have seen some "Chevy Challenge" customized Ruger 10/22's that shot exceeding well.
I met the Small Bore Iron sight champion , and high overall civilian this year at Camp Perry. He is shooting a bolt rifle rifle built around a M52D action. He said his rifle shot .38" ten shot groups at 100 yards with its favorite Red Box Eley ammo.
That is pretty darn good.
I have run into small bore bench rest shooters, they are shooting bolt actions. Heck, their bench rests cost $1200, I cannot imagine what the rifle and scope runs. Barrels are made by some particular guy and everything on the rifles is perfect in alignment.
So, for what I have seen, extreme accuracy shooters are using single shot bolt action rifles.
I have seen some "Chevy Challenge" customized Ruger 10/22's that shot exceeding well.
I met the Small Bore Iron sight champion , and high overall civilian this year at Camp Perry. He is shooting a bolt rifle rifle built around a M52D action. He said his rifle shot .38" ten shot groups at 100 yards with its favorite Red Box Eley ammo.
That is pretty darn good.
I have run into small bore bench rest shooters, they are shooting bolt actions. Heck, their bench rests cost $1200, I cannot imagine what the rifle and scope runs. Barrels are made by some particular guy and everything on the rifles is perfect in alignment.
So, for what I have seen, extreme accuracy shooters are using single shot bolt action rifles.
The answer to your question is that it depends. What you do want to do? You could take a 10/22 and dump a butt load of money into it and it will shoot very well, but you could turn around and buy a stock out of the box Savage with an Accutrigger and it will probably shoot as well as the tricked out .22.
I've been dabbling in precision .22 lately. The guys out at the range where I shoot are nuts for the stuff. From what I've seen, there are a few guys that shoot tricked out 10/22s, but they never win. The guys that win are shooting Anshutz (did I spell that right) and Remington X40s (I think they said they were, never heard of these).
I've been dabbling in precision .22 lately. The guys out at the range where I shoot are nuts for the stuff. From what I've seen, there are a few guys that shoot tricked out 10/22s, but they never win. The guys that win are shooting Anshutz (did I spell that right) and Remington X40s (I think they said they were, never heard of these).
Almost, you left out the "c" 
The secret to the legendary Anschutz accuracy, besides proper fitting, are their barrels...even their entry level M-164 action bolt guns will outshoot most other rifles
The secret to the legendary Anschutz accuracy, besides proper fitting, are their barrels...even their entry level M-164 action bolt guns will outshoot most other rifles
Cesiumsponge
Member
I have a fairly decent modified 10/22 Ruger that I am happy with
Shoots pretty decent. I'm not a great shot by any means but with Eley Tenex, it can do well at 50 yard and 100 yards (bottom right on the 100 yard target was an anomaly). Wind starts to play a pretty big factor with subsonic match rounds.
I also picked up a Walther KMM GX-1 bolt gun with all factory options but I haven't taken it out yet. It should run circles around my 10/22 without breaking a sweat. The factory 50 meter target that came with the rifle is fantastic. Can't photograph the entire thing because the lightbox isn't big enough, but here is a link to some partial body shots
Shoots pretty decent. I'm not a great shot by any means but with Eley Tenex, it can do well at 50 yard and 100 yards (bottom right on the 100 yard target was an anomaly). Wind starts to play a pretty big factor with subsonic match rounds.
I also picked up a Walther KMM GX-1 bolt gun with all factory options but I haven't taken it out yet. It should run circles around my 10/22 without breaking a sweat. The factory 50 meter target that came with the rifle is fantastic. Can't photograph the entire thing because the lightbox isn't big enough, but here is a link to some partial body shots
dogngun
Member
Back inthe mid 1960's, I shot on a rifle team using .22 bolt actions.
They were Anshutz-Savage rifles...I now have a 35 year old Marlin model 25 bolt action that is certainly not as accurate as that old Savage, but is much more accurate than I can hold at my age. Bolt action rimfire rifles of even decent quality can be very accurate...auto loaders not quite so much...certainly good enough for hunting, but not as accurate as a good bolt action.
mark
They were Anshutz-Savage rifles...I now have a 35 year old Marlin model 25 bolt action that is certainly not as accurate as that old Savage, but is much more accurate than I can hold at my age. Bolt action rimfire rifles of even decent quality can be very accurate...auto loaders not quite so much...certainly good enough for hunting, but not as accurate as a good bolt action.
mark
aka108
Member
The top end BR rifles are all bolt actions generally made by persons we never learn the names of unless we are in that game. Acquaintance of mine shoots BR and travels the US to be in competitions. He has about 14K invested in each of his comp. rifles. Has another being build which will run him about 18K when finished. He says when the BR bug really bites you that it amazing that there are no ends you won't go to to tighten up you groups by 1/64th or a inch. Nice thing is that he does have the money to do this so no bread is missing from the table.
wacki
Member
Cesiumsponge, how did you modify that Ruger like that? Is that a kit option?
Cesiumsponge
Member
Found a picture of my GX-1 floating around the internet. Forgot I had posted this on SH. It shows the entire rifle and what I believe to be every factory option except the mirage band. The fore end is neat in that it can slide off for benchrest work. This was an actual free rifle used in Olympic competition in the 70's. There was minor damage to the wood at the base so I stripped, sanded, and refinished it with multiple coats of hand-rubbed tung oil.
The Ruger 10/22 seen is a kit that replaces everything except everything except the receiver and the trigger group and requires purchasing a barrel. It is offered by Matt Shuster at Ironwood Designs. Everything comes to you and you have to put it together. Basically your receiver fits inside a big milled block. Mine has stippling which was added by myself. The kit comes finished but since I opted to add stippling, I asked my kit be unfinished wood and rubbed my own tung oil after stippling.
Its supposed to be a limited production of 100pcs but I believe he serializes them as orders come in. The kit has been around for years and I think it'll take a while to sell out. The website appears to have gone under construction so the previous information is not accessible but you can see several images. I've been tempted to do another in 22WMR if it's compatible with the kit.
http://www.ironwooddesigns.com/IWDsite/IWDproducts.html
The Ruger 10/22 seen is a kit that replaces everything except everything except the receiver and the trigger group and requires purchasing a barrel. It is offered by Matt Shuster at Ironwood Designs. Everything comes to you and you have to put it together. Basically your receiver fits inside a big milled block. Mine has stippling which was added by myself. The kit comes finished but since I opted to add stippling, I asked my kit be unfinished wood and rubbed my own tung oil after stippling.
Its supposed to be a limited production of 100pcs but I believe he serializes them as orders come in. The kit has been around for years and I think it'll take a while to sell out. The website appears to have gone under construction so the previous information is not accessible but you can see several images. I've been tempted to do another in 22WMR if it's compatible with the kit.
http://www.ironwooddesigns.com/IWDsite/IWDproducts.html
FlyinBryan
Member
i have a ruger 10/22 (actually it would be a stretch to call it a ruger anymore)
it shoots itty bitty peanut sized groups @50yds.
it is no match for a serious bolt action match rifle. (i dont know if anything is)
it shoots itty bitty peanut sized groups @50yds.
it is no match for a serious bolt action match rifle. (i dont know if anything is)
S. Hill
Member
The thing that you can't get away from with a semi-auto is the abuse that the cartridge takes as it is fed from the magazine into the chamber. Does the bullet tip get bumped? Do some bullets get loosened slightly as they feed into the "match chamber"?
IMO this is the reason that bolt rifles SHOULD have the advantage over a semi-auto. Everything else can be equal, but you are always going to have the physics of the bolt pushing the cartridge where it may not want to go.
IMO this is the reason that bolt rifles SHOULD have the advantage over a semi-auto. Everything else can be equal, but you are always going to have the physics of the bolt pushing the cartridge where it may not want to go.
hardluk1
member
My wife and i both have ruger 10/22's. Both are lower priced semi-customs and shot groups around well under .25 groups at 25 and .40 at 50 yards and have not had a chance for 100 yet but I also ain't the shooter i once was. That well over half what 22 bolt action benchrifles do at 100yards. That would be like compairing a real nice basic custom hunting rifle to a full on bench rifle. Just not in the same class. But still fun to shoot at 25 yards an make little bitty groups. If youdo happen to have an old 10/22 in your collection for the cost of a mossy lam stocked heavy barrel vt you can build a ruger 10/22 that should shot rings around it for the same or less money. Even a new ruger with a replacement barrel, stock and trigger parts bought on sales would be cheaper.
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