Acquiring a firearm at a new residence

[YankeeRefugee]

Good afternoon

I'm moving to Florida from Massachusetts soon. I don't currently own a firearm, but the circumstances of the new job are such that I really want to get one. (I did grow up with rifles and shotguns and took a hunter safety course long ago so I'm not completely new to guns.) I will apply to CCW in Florida, but the problem is how to get the gun. My housing arrangements will not provide me with a utility bill or lease. My MA DL still has a couple good years on it and considering this may be a 1 year job, I would like to just keep the license if possible.

I have read some discussions here about students facing similar types of situations and it appears that I won't be able to buy from a dealer given this situation. My question is, can I legally buy from a private seller. If so, what's the best way to go about finding one?

Another question: if I can find the hunter safety course certificate from about 20 years ago, would that be sufficient for the training FL wants for the CCW?

Thanks and god bless.

 

[GRIZ22]

My MA DL still has a couple good years on it and considering this may be a 1 year job, I would like to just keep the license if possible

Not sure what FL law is but most states require you to get their drivers license in 30-90 days after you establish residency. You'll be saving the cost of the license but risking a costly ticket.

If you get a Resident CCW in FL they may require DL number on application. I don't know.

Getting the DL is easy and inexpensive and just seems like the smarter way to go. Save yourself a lot of headaches and it solves your problem.

 

[springfield30-06]

My MA DL still has a couple good years on it and considering this may be a 1 year job, I would like to just keep the license if possible.

It doesn't sound like he will be changing residency because it's a temporary position. I don't know the specifics about changing residency, but I do know that MA handgun laws aren't very pro-gun. I your only legal option may be to change residency, buy the gun in FL and get a FL resident CCW.

I don't know MA law but when you go back to MA you may need to sell it...

 

[NavyLCDR]

My question is, can I legally buy from a private seller. If so, what's the best way to go about finding one?

As soon as you move to Florida with the intention of making a home there, you are a resident of Florida for the purposes of firearms transactions. So, yes, private transactions with other Florida residents would be legal. HOWEVER, if they don't know you, they may still want to see evidence of Florida residency. If I don't personally know a buyer, I request to see a driver's license or ID card just to verify age and residency. I only look at it, I don't copy it or copy any numbers.

As far as finding a private seller:
http://www.thehighroad.org/forumdisplay.php?f=21

Here is Florida's driver's license statute:
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ng=&URL=0300-0399/0322/Sections/0322.031.html

322.031 Nonresident; when license required.

(1) In every case in which a nonresident, except a nonresident migrant or seasonal farm worker as defined in s. 316.003(61), accepts employment or engages in any trade, profession, or occupation in this state or enters his or her children to be educated in the public schools of this state, such nonresident shall, within 30 days after the commencement of such employment or education, be required to obtain a Florida driver’s license if such nonresident operates a motor vehicle on the highways of this state. The spouse or dependent child of such nonresident shall also be required to obtain a Florida driver’s license within that 30-day period prior to operating a motor vehicle on the highways of this state.

 

[YankeeRefugee]

Not sure what FL law is but most states require you to get their drivers license in 30-90 days after you establish residency. You'll be saving the cost of the license but risking a costly ticket.

I may have trouble meeting requirement three (proof of residential address) of the DMV, as I explained in my OP.

If you get a Resident CCW in FL they may require DL number on application. I don't know.

FL doesn't distinguish between in- and out-of-state CCW permitees as far as I can tell. It's the same form and process either way.

Getting the DL is easy and inexpensive and just seems like the smarter way to go. Save yourself a lot of headaches and it solves your problem.

It's only $45 for the Florida license, plus the time at the DMV. It has been many years since i witnessed someone waiting at the FL DMV in urban Dade, but unless things have changed, it's a serious hassle.

The thing is, I don't drive here and may not be registering a vehicle in FL, either. MA also charges a reasonable $50 for a license, but gouges you an extra $50 for "converting" from out-of-state licenses. I was gouged that way when I paid for my current license when I moved here, and I hoped to avoid doing it again when I move back.

I'm still wondering about the legality and logistics of a private sale to bypass these issues and allow me to be secure in the interim.

Edit: a couple more responses while I was writing. It sounds like it will be hard to find a safe seller who won't expect a FL DL. :/ Regarding MA gun laws: I have no intention of bringing the weapon into this [strike]state[/strike] [strike]commonwealth[/strike] prison. I can safely ship it to myself c/o parents who live in a free state if necessary. That's where my long arms are.

 

[NavyLCDR]

It doesn't sound like he will be changing residency because it's a temporary position.

As soon as he steps foot in Florida, with the intent of making a home there, he becomes a resident of Florida for the purposes of firearms transactions according to 27 CFR 478.11.

If he works in Florida only on the weekends and lives in MA during the week, for the purposes of firearms transactions he is a Florida resident on the weekends and a MA resident during the week.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...iv8&view=text&node=27:3.0.1.2.3.2.1.1&idno=27

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. An alien who is legally in the United States shall be considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in the State and has resided in the State for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm. The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 1. A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

Example 2. A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

Example 3. A, an alien, travels on vacation or on a business trip to State X. Regardless of the length of time A spends in State X, A does not have a State of residence in State X. This is because A does not have a home in State X at which he has resided for at least 90 days.

 

[oldgoat46]

Welcome to Florida. Now, to buy a handgun here you will need to have and show a Florida Drivers Lisc. Even though my dealer knows me well every time I buy a handgun I must show it and the dealer makes a copy. this is true at every dealer where I have made a handgun purchase. Why not get a Florida DL, and establish a residency. We have no personal property taxes, we have no State income taxes, you can own as many guns as you like with out any permits. If you carry loaded and available in your vehichle or on your person concealed you will need a CWP. You must apply, be fingerprinted and show that you have taken a CWP course or show a DD form 214 proving that you were in a branch of the military. Good Luck!

 

[brboyer]

I may have trouble meeting requirement three (proof of residential address) of the DMV, as I explained in my OP.



FL doesn't distinguish between in- and out-of-state CCW permitees as far as I can tell. It's the same form and process either way.



It's only $45 for the Florida license, plus the time at the DMV. It has been many years since i witnessed someone waiting at the FL DMV in urban Dade, but unless things have changed, it's a serious hassle.

The thing is, I don't drive here and may not be registering a vehicle in FL, either. MA also charges a reasonable $50 for a license, but gouges you an extra $50 for "converting" from out-of-state licenses. I was gouged that way when I paid for my current license when I moved here, and I hoped to avoid doing it again when I move back.

I'm still wondering about the legality and logistics of a private sale to bypass these issues and allow me to be secure in the interim.

Edit: a couple more responses while I was writing. It sounds like it will be hard to find a safe seller who won't expect a FL DL. :/ Regarding MA gun laws: I have no intention of bringing the weapon into this [strike]state[/strike] [strike]commonwealth[/strike] prison. I can safely ship it to myself c/o parents who live in a free state if necessary. That's where my long arms are.

I may have trouble meeting requirement three (proof of residential address) of the DMV, as I explained in my OP.

Call the DMV. My son-in-law is living with us (therefore has no bills at our address). He bought a motorcycle and needed to update his DL. DMV had him write a letter of explanation and he got the new DL.

If I remember, I'll ask him tonight what the letter had to say and if it was required to be notarized.

 

[zoom6zoom]

Refugee, I left Mass. for a temporary assignment too. That was thirty years ago and I haven't gone back except for a few short visits.

Get your Florida docs.

 

[GRIZ22]

FL seems pretty easy to provide proof of residence. You can do it with affidavits and mail from govt agencies (request info and have it sent to your FL address.

 

[NavyLCDR]

What about renting a PO Box? The application needs a residence address listed. Heck, send me your address in PM and I'll send you a Christmas card at your Florida address.

 

[NavyLCDR]

What about renting a PO Box? The application needs a residence address listed. Heck, send me your address in PM and I'll send you a Christmas card at your Florida address.

 

[Jim K]

Since you are going to be living in FL, you almost have to get a FL drivers license and that has your address and is your proof of residency in FL; you don't need utility bills or the like. You will also have to register your car in FL after so many days. (The DL and car registration address cannot be a PO box.)

And I think all states now take your current DL when they issue the new one because of so many criminals building aliases and people with revoked licenses getting ones from another state.

As a FL resident, you will come under the FL laws on guns and everything else. The problem seems to be that you want to keep your MA residence, DL and car registration and that might not be possible while you physically living in FL for a year. Basically the law says, for income tax and other purposes, that you can change your state of residence, but you can't reside in two states at the same time and that if you live in a state for six months of the year, that is your residence.

Too bad if you lose money on the MA DL or registration; they might have a refund program or let you apply the difference against the new licenses when/if you move back to MA.

Jim

 

[medalguy]

If Florida has no income tax, that alone would most likely offset any costs in converting your license and registration.

How are you living there? Renting/leasing? You could use a copy of your lease agreement to establish residency.

NavyLT is exactly correct (as usual) in pointing out that as soon as you start residing in Florida, you become a resident for the purpose of firearms transactions. There is no minimum time required to establigh residency. The requirement is that you reside there with the intent of establilshing a residence, not that you actually change any registrations and licenses.

 

[788Ham]

Deleted

 

[Stumpknocker]

As of Jan 1, 2010, any new Florida driver's license applicant must bring original documents proving identity, social security number, and residential address.

To learn what documents will suffice for each requirement, visit http://www.gathergoget.com/ and use the online tool to make a list of what you'll need.

 

[YankeeRefugee]

A lot of focus on the periphery issues here, but I appreciate your comments.

To reiterate, I don't have a car. I may or may not get or use one while in FL. I only have a DL now because I drive when I visit my family out West. I am most likely not staying in FL more than a year this time around because I unfortunately have unfinished business in MA.

Knowing that it is legal, if difficult, to buy from private parties once in FL, I will start with that, or maybe try to pick one up while home for the holidays. Any suggestions on good places to find private sales? The classifieds have dried up a lot since CL and ebay have taken over.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Any suggestions on good places to find private sales? The classifieds have dried up a lot since CL and ebay have taken over.

See my post #4.

 

[jdh]

Does Florida have a state issues ID card in addition to the DL? Texas does, that is why I ask. If so keep your DL apply for the FL ID and use it as the required proof. If asked you can truthfully say you don't need a DL as you don't drive.

 

[YankeeRefugee]

They do issue an ID, but I have heard some reports that it's being discontinued. It's a good idea and i'll look into it.

See my post #4.

Oops, missed that. Thanks.

I'll let you all know how it goes.

 

[oldgoat46]

You don't have have a FL DL to buy a hand gun in florida but you do need some form of photo ID and you must be a resident to buy a handgun here. Technically if you walk through a gunshow and buy a handgun from an individual that individual is required to ask for and see your ID. Some do it some don't. Because we have so many transients here the BATFE cruises the gunshows posing as buyers for individuals handguns. Your out of state DL or CWP from another state would serve as identification for a rifle or shotgun but without proof of ID and residency hand gun purchase ain't going to happen (not supposed to anyway) I asked my prefferred gun dealer today about the phone bills etc and he said absolutely not. won't work. You didn't say what state your DL was from if other than the peoples republik of Mass. why not just buy your handgun there?

 

[NavyLCDR]

You don't have have a FL DL to buy a hand gun in florida but you do need some form of photo ID and you must be a resident to buy a handgun here. Technically if you walk through a gunshow and buy a handgun from an individual that individual is required to ask for and see your ID. Some do it some don't. Because we have so many transients here the BATFE cruises the gunshows posing as buyers for individuals handguns.

What requires an individual (who is not a licensed dealer) at a gun show to ask for and see ID? It isn't required by law.