Action rust on an old rifle

[judaspriest]

Hi,

I started noticing a disturbing brownish tint in and around the action of my 58 year old Mosin M44 (bought it recently and it looked to be in great shape). At first, I thought I haven't cleaned it well enough and even blamed Breakfree CLP for being corrosive (I use Greek Olympic ammo that is supposedly non-corrosive).

I wiped all of the tinted areas very hard with a few patches soaked with RemOil, something I am fairly certain isn't corrosive. To my chagrin, the tinting started to come back a few days later. I repeated the process and now I am seeing the same thing yet again. It is not a huge amount of rust and the surfaces are still smooth, but if I don't do something quick I am afraid it will rust much worse.

Surprisingly, I don't get any brown on the patches when I push them through the receiver and the barrel.

I am reluctant to take the rifle to a gunsmith - they'll probably charge 70% of its price just to take a look and the problem seems fairly simple, yet I feel soon I may not have much choice...

Any tips will be greatly appreciated

Happy 4th of July everyone!

Thanks,

JP

 

[Jim K]

I assume you are leaving a layer of oil on the gun after you clean it. In some climates if a gun is really cleaned and all oil removed, it can rust very rapidly.

But I wonder if what you are seeing is rust. Some steels take a sort of patina just from exposure to the air. The result is a bronze color that is only surface deep and goes no further. I think it is safe to say that none of those oils will either cause or allow rust.

Jim

 

[judaspriest]

I live in a normally-dry climate and none of the other firearms or metal tools seem to be suffering from it, so I doubt it's the climate

What you are describing indeed sounds like the problem I am having. What surprises me is that I am only seeing this on a well-localized area - the action pretty much and nowhere else....

 

[Jim K]

Which pretty well indicates that the action is made from a different steel alloy than the rest of the rifle. I am not a metallurgist, and even if I were I couldn't tell what steel alloy they used without destructive testing. In any case, I wouldn't worry about it. If you want to do so, you might try having the rifle reblued or given another kind of finish, which should take care of the problem.

Jim

 

[mrmeval]

Beyond what's been said you'd not be able to discover what it is without an analysis. If there's a college near you call the chemistry department and ask if they'd be willing to analyze a sample.

 

[dutchy]

Hey Jude,

Below I copied my post on the firing line,
Read it carefully and know that the oil mentioned, served the germans in 2 WW's'

Quote:
A number of years ago, a german equivalent of G&A (Visier), did a field test on gun cleaning oils. Not copper removers but general 1 product gun care liquids. They were tested on
A. anti corrosion
B. powder residue removal,
C. Bore cleaning.

Reason for the test was the emergence of many new PTFE based products (yes, 2 decades ago).
The test was supposed to run over several weeks.(anti corrosion and powder residue removal).

Finally the test was ended prematurely because ALL (but one) products had failed in one or more aspects. The only one left standing after several weeks was exactly the same oil that served the german army in both WWI and WWII and that I still use today for 1001 applications. I would not dream going camping without it.

Don't know if its available in the states, it is called Ballistol from the Klever company.

Using household chemicals such as ammonia (poisonous) or diesel/gasoline(flammable) does not strike me as good care for carefully engineered and manufactured products.

With all due respect.

 

[judaspriest]

Yes, Sir, it is readily available here. Thanks for the tip - I'll give it a try

JP

 

[judaspriest]

Mr. Mrmeval, I will keep an eye on the problem, if it continues to spread, I'll certainly try to find a willing chem lab around. Thanks!

JP

 

[Ranger 40]

I have an AR15 Pre Ban Blue label H-BAR marked NATO 1-9 twist. I had not fired the rifle in a number of years. It is very dry here at 7,000' rust just never gets on any thing in doors.
I took it to the range it has a 10X Scope and it fired its normal 5 shot 1 1/4 groups . I cleaned it with Butch's Bore Bright the patches came out clean after a few wipes as normal. I always wipe the bore dry and light oil for storage. After running some dry patches down they started coming out black.
The bore checked bright with a light. However dry patches come out black. I tried every bore cleaner going no luck, even JB and bronze brush still black patches in a dry bore.
I finally went to Hydrogen Peroxide then the patches started coming out a Burnt Orange color. I just about have it clean, only a small amount of black on the dry patches. I am sorry this is so long but I have been shooting for years and never had a problem like this. Does anyone have any idea what is going on with this? I don't think the Burnt Orange is rust. The stuff can only be removed with Peroxide.

 

[don]

Burnt orange-hydrogen peroxide, sounds like iron oxide (rust) to me. peroxide is H2O2. It is a strong oxidizing agent. Water is H2O. The extra oxygen in peroxide makes for a a potent rust causer. Further boring explanation upon request

 

[mrmeval]

Ranger you might want to start a new thread on that. More people will see it and can help. I suspect it's what Don says.

Chemical goodness
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem00/chem00253.htm

 

[peterotte]

A concentrate of hydrogen peroxide on rust will explode! That's what sank the Kursk. To kill rust dead, use phosphoric acid solution then clean and dry and oil. But in a gun bore? Rather use Hoppes's no.9.

 

[mrmeval]

disregard

.