Action vs. Accuracy Question

[Slick]

Okay, it's generally agreed that a Bolt Action is more accurate than a semi-auto. My question is, How does a Pump Action compare??
I've always liked pump shotguns. Recently, I've been looking at some rifles, the Remington 7400 (semi) and 7600 (pump), and was wondering if there's an accuracy difference between the two action types.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Kurt

 

[ShaiVong]

I've never really thought of shotguns in terms of accuracy. I doubt that a bolt action shotgun would be any more accurate than a semi

 

[Slick]

The Remington's I'm talking about are centerfire rifles.
I see my initial post was confusing, sorry. I've edited it to read better.

 

[cheygriz]

The question is not which is more accurate, the question should be which will get the job done best.

The Remington 7400 auto is just as acurate as the pump. Is is also as accurate as most "out of the box" bolt action hunting rifles. and it doesn't kick half as hard.

I think many of us get too hung up on absolute accuracy. I know a fellow who traded off a nice Sako 7MM magnum because he couldn't get it to group any better than 7/8 inch!

He bought the gun for moose and elk! 7/8 inch accuracy isn't good ebough for moose and elk?

Another friend of mine likes to jeer at my Browning BAR Mkll .338 WinMag, because it won't group better than 3/4 inch. He brags that his .340 Weatherby will group 1/2 inch. Who cares?

If I hunted ground squirrels, I'd demand 1/4 inch groups. for deer, and larger game, anything that will group into 2 inches is more than adequate.

 

[Jim K]

Hi, guys,

I agree with cheygriz. Both those Remington rifles have the same degree of accuracy, around 2 1/2" to 3" at 100 yards. This is adequate for deer, and they are good woods rifles. Once in a while, one will turn in MOA or sub MOA but not as a common matter.

Both also can be tuned some, but I wouldn't pick either purely for accuracy.

Jim

 

[Slick]

Thanks guys,
I tend to agree with you both. Everytime I'm just about set to pick up a 7400, some gun store jockey starts spouting off about the inaccuracy, blah blah blah. Ha! I'm not even sure I'm capable of 1" groups!
I appreciate you guys setting me straight.
Slick

 

[JohnKSa]

Tighter chambers generally provide better accuracy.

The pump doesn't have the mechanical advantage for case extraction that other action types have. Therefore most pump rifle chambers are cut a little on the large side to make extraction easier. That doesn't mean you can't end up with a pump rifle that's a tack driver. It just makes it a little less likely that you will.

 

[CampX]

One of my buddy's has an old Model 760 pump 30-06, and it is a shooter. He put 3 rounds into a playing card tacked up at the 300 yard range......not accurate enough my butt.
I just had it refinished, as a wedding gift for him, in black Teflon, a new synthetic stock, and the word 'Painless' inscribed on it in Gothic print. Painless to describe the first deer he shot with it.

 

[cratz2]

I think lots of people think they, as a shooter, is capable of more than they really are. I have lots of shooter friends and very few of them can hold 1" at 100 yards. I think 3" at 100 yards is fine for hunting deer. Several hunters I know don't know the anatomy of a deer or elk or moose well enough to make use of a .5 MOA rifle. If you don't know where the heart or lungs or major arteries are, to within 1", you don't need a 1 MOA rifle. Right?

Heck, in Indiana, you must use shotguns and I can't think of an opportunity of a shot over about 125 yards. There is a lot to be said for having the very best, but I don't get hung up on such things.

If the rifle I'm shooting is capable of .5 MOA or 1 MOA, I'd probably never know the difference. If I can't get a heavy barrel rifle to group better than 1.5" at 100 yards, I'd start to consider it no up to par. For a lightweight rifle, esp a non-bolt rifle, 3" at 100 yards would be fine for me.

Comparing the Remington pump to auto, I have no idea. I'd expect them to be about the same.

 

[Art Eatman]

My old 742K, '06, with a K4 )) on top has done more than just a few 3-shot groups around 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" at 100 yards, off the benchrest. Plenty good for deer...

I've never miked any fired brass to compare chamber sizes between semi- or bolt. It might be interesting to do so, and include a pump in the deal.

Art

 

[Lee S. Forsberg]

Remingtons Pump and Auto

I agree with all of you. I like accurate rifles and have some. However, I won't be taking them into the woods for Deer or Elk, too heavy and too much scope. A 7400 or 7600 would be just fine for tipping over Elk or Deer in the woods. Just what they are made to do.

 

[cracked butt]

I've seen a few remington semis that are very consistant- my friend has one that is an absolute tack driver that can put shots under 2" all day long. On the other hand, most of the 7400's and 742's I've seen will start to really throw shots after the barrel warms up after a few shots. I've seen literally hundreds of these things perform at the rifle range when I work deer rifle sight in clinics. Most will open up to 4-5" which is still accurate enough, while others will spread up to 8" or more. The point is If you aren't going to hit your game with the first 2 or 3 shots with one of these rifles, its unlikely that you will hit them at all.

 

[twoblink]

The pump is inherently less accurate then a bolt, because of the design. The forearm is floating; so it gives you a "wiggly" base to shoot from..

That said, most people won't notice the degradation all that much.. That's all fine in theory, but from the Rem pumps I've shot in Oregon, didn't notice anything different.

I like pump actions though, seems more natural then lever actions to me...

 

[Al Thompson]

While there is an absolute difference in "pure" accuracy from different actions, I find that "practical" accuracy is somewhat of a moot point if you only consider the action. Good sights, good triggers really contribute more than anything else.

FWIW, in my experiance the Remington pumps do very well at the range. Several Remington autos have surprised me as well.

 

[Jim K]

The older 760's had a foreend hanger that bore on the barrel and would raise hob with accuracy when the barrel warmed up. The later ones have a free hanger and are pretty accurate. Some folks think barrels won't shoot unless bedded in some special way. Actually, free floating barrels are usually very accurate. An example is the old Model 94 Winchester. When the barrel is bound tightly to the magazine tube (as from the factory) a warming barrel tosses shots everywhere. But if the band is relieved so it allows the barrel to move inside it, the gun shoots well.

Jim

 

[Art Eatman]

Uniformity in the first shot's point of impact is the most important feature for a hunting rifle. Gross misbehavior as giant groups after the first three shots is totally irrelevant, as far as deers and elks and bears and suchlike. And even meese!

Sure, it's desirable that a PD rifle give tight groups, but that's a whole 'nother ballgame. It's much more a case of long strings of fire, from target-type rifles.

Art

 

[Slick]

Thanks everybuddy,
I really appreciate being able to tap into all the experience floating around this board.
I'm sure whatever I purchase will out shoot me anyway! Heck, my Marlin Model 60 does!

 

[twoblink]

One of the other things you have to remember is; these things are numbers under "ideal" conditions and with a "professional sniper" behind it.

I had a friend tell me one of my guns is only "1.5MOA" while his is "1.0MOA".

Err... since we both shoot 3" groups @ 100 yards, I'd say both of use are 3MOA.... wouldn't you?

Remember, an accurate gun you suck with, is worse then a slightly less accurate gun you are good with..