Advice on my carry rotation

[C-grunt]

None of the professional level trainers that I know recommend keeping the light on while shooting, including Ken Hackathorn who I have trained with.

Lights are bullet magnets. The person shooting back is going to shoot at what they can see, and that is the light.

I have a good friend who is former force recon and has done a lot of things in the dark. He doesn't carry a light on his pistol, just a simple Surefire in his pocket, and recommends reflecting the light off the ceiling or a wall to divert the threat.

So they advice to turn the light off while shooting? How do you keep PID of a threat? How do you track movement?

Light usage in the states is far different than OCONUS. For the most part in the US you don't have to worry about lights attracting outside fire. They also operate with night vision which changes things significantly.

 

[C-grunt]

So I thought up a quick scenario and Im wanting to know what the "constant on is bad" crew thinks one should do here.

Im searching a building at night for a bad guy. Im using a mixture of my gun light and handheld using momentary and constant on for various tasks during the search. I come into a large room and find the bad guy crouched in the corner holding a gun.

For me, that is the time I go constant on to keep an uninterrupted view on the threat. Should I be turning my light off, completely losing view of the threat?

If the guy gets up and starts running and shooting, should I be turning the light off between my shots?

 

[MarshallDodge]

So I thought up a quick scenario and Im wanting to know what the "constant on is bad" crew thinks one should do here.

Im searching a building at night for a bad guy. Im using a mixture of my gun light and handheld using momentary and constant on for various tasks during the search. I come into a large room and find the bad guy crouched in the corner holding a gun.

For me, that is the time I go constant on to keep an uninterrupted view on the threat. Should I be turning my light off, completely losing view of the threat?

If the guy gets up and starts running and shooting, should I be turning the light off between my shots?

Why wouldn't bad guy start shooting when you enter the room with lights blazing?

 

[375supermag]

Hi...
I do not rotate my carry gun. I carry a full size Springfield Armory 1911 in .45ACP.
If I decide it's a little too large, I carry a Colt Combat Commander in .45ACP.
On rare occasions, I carry a Taurus .44Spl five shot adjustable sighted revolver. Very rarely.
No lights on carry guns or home defense guns... lights attract gunfire in my opinion.

 

[Kleanbore]

So I thought up a quick scenario and Im wanting to know what the "constant on is bad" crew thinks one should do here.

Im searching a building at night for a bad guy. Im using a mixture of my gun light and handheld using momentary and constant on for various tasks during the search. I come into a large room and find the bad guy crouched in the corner holding a gun.

For me, that is the time I go constant on to keep an uninterrupted view on the threat. Should I be turning my light off, completely losing view of the threat?

If the guy gets up and starts running and shooting, should I be turning the light off between my shots?

Civilians should not be searching a building for a "bad guy" at any time of day.

 

[C-grunt]

Why wouldn't bad guy start shooting when you enter the room with lights blazing?

He might. But I also have to have a PID of a threat to engage. And like I said before I use other techniques until the threat is found, then it's constant on.

 

[C-grunt]

Civilians should not be searching a building for a "bad guy" at any time of day.

For the most part that is correct. However people do go investigate bumps in the night and many homes do not have all bedrooms right next to each other. If someone broke into my house in the middle of the night I am going to be clearing a large portion of my house to get to my children's bedroom.

 

[C-grunt]

In the end, searching light techniques and shooting light techniques are not the same.

 

[C-grunt]

Sage Dynamics video on searching light techniques vs direct threat light techniques.

 

[30-30shooter]

Ok, I think i might be returning the TLR6 and the holsters, although after handling it with the crossbreed its starting to grow on me a little, and just carry a handheld flashlight on me.

sidenote tho, I impulse bought a Glock 30SF today, it seems a good middle and i think i could use it to replace both my G45 and G43X in my rotation, I live in a restricted state so i dont loose capacity, I can carry it and it has a rail so i can mount a light at night. Anyone know any lights that are quick detach and can fit a Glock 30?

 

[StrawHat]

...Im searching a building at night for a bad guy...

If you are searching for the “bad guy” I am guessing you are in LE. Then, you answer is to do as you were trained by your department training officers.

If you are searching as a civilian, it is probably not going to play well in court.


Kevin

 

[StrawHat]

...Lights are bullet magnets.

The person shooting back is going to shoot at what they can see, and that is the light...

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner! Give the man a cigar!


Kevin

 

[C-grunt]

If you are searching for the “bad guy” I am guessing you are in LE. Then, you answer is to do as you were trained by your department training officers.

If you are searching as a civilian, it is probably not going to play well in court.


Kevin

Just a couple scenarios I quickly remember from work.

You wake up to your door/window getting kicked in and your bedroom is in a separate part of the house from your children's rooms. Are you not going to go get your kids? In doing so that pretty much requires you searching for bad guys on the way.

You are in your house at night watching tv or doing whatever. Your wife goes to the barn to work in her woodshop. You hear her start screaming. Are you going to barricade yourself in the house or are you going to go to the barn to investigate?

Like I said before, the vast majority of searching for badguys in the US is done by LE, but that doesnt mean the average citizen wont ever find themselves in a situation where similar techniques are used.

Back to the "light being bullet magnets".... If it's dark where you are, how are you identifying a threat?

Go do some force on force training with lights. Inside a house sized structure you are not shooting at a high powered modern light pointed at your face. You might be able to shoot in the general direction of the light but with a 800+ lumen light in your eyes, you cant see origin of it.

 

[MarshallDodge]

....
Back to the "light being bullet magnets".... If it's dark where you are, how are you identifying a threat?

Go do some force on force training with lights. Inside a house sized structure you are not shooting at a high powered modern light pointed at your face. You might be able to shoot in the general direction of the light but with a 800+ lumen light in your eyes, you cant see origin of it.

I have been through several night training classes, ran drills at night, and have done force on force.

There is an aspect that you are missing, and really need to take a class from a high level instructor.

The police typically don't go into a search scenario by themselves. They get a couple of them or a whole SWAT team to conduct the search. It changes the way the search is being conducted, and the attitude of the person they are searching for.

 

[C-grunt]

I have been through several night training classes, ran drills at night, and have done force on force.

There is an aspect that you are missing, and really need to take a class from a high level instructor.

The police typically don't go into a search scenario by themselves. They get a couple of them or a whole SWAT team to conduct the search. It changes the way the search is being conducted, and the attitude of the person they are searching for.

And that changes the usage of light when a threat is found?

What instructor says to turn your light off when you have a threat identified?

 

[StrawHat]

I was a Training Officer. Dark house searching was routine training for my department. If your way works for you, okay, but it does not work for me. Been there, etc.

Kevin

 

[C-grunt]

I was a Training Officer. Dark house searching was routine training for my department. If your way works for you, okay, but it does not work for me. Been there, etc.

Kevin

So as a FTO if you were searching a house at night and found a burglar in the back room, would you keep your light on him as you gave him commands leading up to arrest, or would you intermittently turn the light off and lose visual sight of the suspect?

 

[30-30shooter]

Final update for anyone that's interested, took the Glock 30 to the range today, ran flawlessly through 200 rounds of Tulaammo, 50 Winchester hollowpoints and 20 Critical Defense, I decided to retire the Glock 43X and Glock 45 as the Glock 30 is small enough for me to conceal and I shoot it just as well as any of my full size guns. makes thing a lot simpler to have holsters/mags for only two guns in my night stand now. lights will be staying off both, special thanks to C-Grunt for turning me onto the Streamlight Macrostream which ive been carrying the past few days and it works great.

 

[C-grunt]

Final update for anyone that's interested, took the Glock 30 to the range today, ran flawlessly through 200 rounds of Tulaammo, 50 Winchester hollowpoints and 20 Critical Defense, I decided to retire the Glock 43X and Glock 45 as the Glock 30 is small enough for me to conceal and I shoot it just as well as any of my full size guns. makes thing a lot simpler to have holsters/mags for only two guns in my night stand now. lights will be staying off both, special thanks to C-Grunt for turning me onto the Streamlight Macrostream which ive been carrying the past few days and it works great.

A good friend at work has been carrying a Glock 30 as his off duty gun, and now as his main duty gun as a detective, for probably 15 years. Great shooting gun.

 

[30-30shooter]

A good friend at work has been carrying a Glock 30 as his off duty gun, and now as his main duty gun as a detective, for probably 15 years. Great shooting gun.

Oh 100%, i was surprised for some reason i can shoot that gun better then my e series or pro series

 

[Hal]

i was surprised for some reason i can shoot that gun better then my e series or pro series

I've never shot a Glock - but - I've seen the Glock 30 run right up there against a Colt Gold Cup. Once all this Covid silliness is behind us, I see one in my future.

 

[Kleanbore]

I really don't see good value in carrying a flashlight I can't use without pointing my sidearm at the subject to be lit. I use my carry flashlight a lot, practically every day, to see something in the dark. To date, the number of things I've pointed my flashlight at that might have needed shooting is one, and the muzzle was on it right behind the light.

Regarding the rotation of carry guns. . . I rotate guns I bring to the range for variety and fun. I almost never change my EDC gun, because I don't carry it for variety and fun.

My thought exactly!