Advice to new CCW holders: Part 2 - Carry like a pro

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Trebor

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Here is my latest Michigan Firearms Examiner article. This one gives more tips for new CCW permit holders. (I couldn't edit the title of my previous post to show this was an update, so I made a new thread.)

Advice to new CCW holders: Part 2 - Carry like a pro

"This is my second article on advice for new concealed carry permit holders. The first article covered the mental and legal aspects of armed self-defense. This article discusses the more practical aspects of concealed carry.

Many students in my Michigan Concealed Pistol License (CPL) classes, overwhelmed by the vast choices in guns and carry methods, ask me to cut through the clutter and give them the secret to “The Right Way” to carry a handgun.

I tell them, “Carry like a pro.”

***

If you missed it, the first article discussed the mental and legal aspects of CCW:

Advice to new concealed carry permit holders
 
Some of the "advice" frankly was poor. How many "pros" carried Charter Arms revolvers as back ups? A Rossi is no worse a gun, likely better. A "Hungarian knock off of a Walther PPK" isn't necessarily a poor choice either. And if you've only got $150 to spend I'd take it over a HiPoint or somesuch. Carrying an extra magazine is a waste. If the mag fails in a gunfight it will take 8 seconds to diagnose and fix. IOW, the rest of someone's life. People want to carry an extra. Or two. Or three. More power to them.
 
Bubba,

Please explain how a cheap (not just "less expensive" but cheaply made) handgun like a Rossi or a PA-64, which was not designed to reliably feed JHP's, is a better choice than a quality handgun like those normally carried by plainclothes officers or off-duty cops?

Or, even if why you think an extra mag is "a waste" why you think it's "poor advice" to recommend carrying an extra mag?

I will say this is my advice, which means it's my opinions, based on my training and experience. Other people may have differing opinions, but I don't see how any of my advice makes it more dangerous for a new concealed carry holder.

(One thing I will give you is there is a need for people to get good advice on good, low budget handguns if they don't have the money to spend. I just don't think the ones I mentioned are the ones to pick. Feel free to make some suggestions)
 
It was a good attempt, hating on a certain brand or mfg. is kinda od. I'd say carry the best you can afford. I started with a charter arms magpug. Nothing special., fit my budget, and got me into a 357. Or carry what you are most comfotable with is more important.
 
If the mag fails in a gunfight it will take 8 seconds to diagnose and fix. IOW, the rest of someone's life. People want to carry an extra. Or two. Or three. More power to them.
In a high performance handgun course that I took two years ago, the instructors could fire twleve rounds and hit three torso sized targets four times each in just over four seconds. That included a magazine change.

The purpose of including a magazine change in the drill was to teach an automatic response to a failure.

Of course, one might not need to insert a second magazine....
 
I thought it was a good article. I agree that carrying a QUALITY handgun is more safe then carrying an inexpensive crappy handgun. I don't think this is brand snobbish, as these pieces of equipment are meant to save our lives and the lives of our loved ones. If an individual only had $150 to spend on a carry gun, I would say that they clearly are not taking CC seriously. You don't need the BEST, but you need SUFFICIENT. I agree that a
Rossi revolver, a Taurus Judge, or a $150 Hungarian knock-off of a Walther PPK
are NOT sufficiently reliable for defense. If you are serious, you would save up or look for a good used deal on a more well-made handgun. This is MY opinion, and others are entitled to have their own opinions and carry what they wish. By the way, I'm a broke USAF veteran and college student, So I'm not oblivious to financial hardship.
 
I'd say "good article". We need to remember that this is geared toward new concealed permit holders. It is never a mistake to point them in the direction of good quality equipment. That being said, I understand that there are folks that can't afford to go out and drop five to seven hundred bucks on a new Glock, Springfield, S&W, or what have you. To them I would suggest looking for good quality guns on the used market, particularly PD trade in guns. Many are factory refurbished, low round count, highly dependable, and can be had in the $400. range. Failing that, look at a small Kel Tec, or other dependable although not so pretty pistol or revolver for under three hundred. My first carry gun was a Bersa Thunder 380, I still have it and it still shoots great some 14 years later. My first serious caliber carry gun was a police trade in Glock 23. It looked a bit rough but it worked well and I got it with three 13 round mags and night sights for $420. As for good holsters, check around with other "gun people", there are few that do no have a big "Box-O-Holsters" that we have collected over the years trying to find the "perfect one" to fit our gun, body shape, carry method, wardrobe, and fashion sense. I could probably sell off five perfectly good Glock holsters and never miss them. Or Uncle Mikes LE brand, Fobus, or Blackhawk kydex holsters are only slightly more expensive than the generic Nylon type, are gun specific and have retention capabilities.
Spare mags, great idea, but not everyone carries one all the time, not even me. Its a personal decision, you just need to understand the remifications, and the possibility of needing it and not having it.
Mostly, get whatever equipment you can afford and practice, practice, practice. Make sure it works consistantly, and that you are capable of keeping it running. :)
 
I'm planning to write a follow up with some "budget gun" suggestions. There's only so much you can cram into one article, especially when you are trying to keep to a specific theme, like I did with this one.

I already plan to include police trade-in Glocks, and used S&W revolvers. I'm going to do a little more research as well.

Any other suggestions are welcome though.
 
Please explain how a cheap (not just "less expensive" but cheaply made) handgun like a Rossi or a PA-64, which was not designed to reliably feed JHP's, is a better choice than a quality handgun like those normally carried by plainclothes officers or off-duty cops?

Or, even if why you think an extra mag is "a waste" why you think it's "poor advice" to recommend carrying an extra mag?

A Rossi is a revolver. So feeding JHP isn't an issue. A Walther PPK is not a cheap gun, right? It also was not designed to feed JHP, which didnt exist when it was designed. Those are better choices of handgun in comparison to nothing. And you ignore my point that Charters were popular back up and off duty guns and Rossi's are certainly no worse and likely better.

An extra mag is not necessary. Therefore advising to carry one, esp for the reasons cited, is poor advice.
In a high performance handgun course that I took two years ago, the instructors could fire twleve rounds and hit three torso sized targets four times each in just over four seconds. That included a magazine change.
Nice but not responsive to what I wrote. Which was that diagnosing and fixing a mag failure will take at least 8 seconds. The instructors mentioned probably had much more training than the average permit holder. They also knew they would be doing that particular drill. Big difference.
 
I know a pro that carries a taurus. They have ALOT of training and know their stuff. So they would read that and maybe a smirk. It doesnt sound snobbish just not fitting in the article. Its funny you called out taurus/rossi, in how to carry like a pro article. Makes the article a bit sophmorish.

I'd say a pro knows how to run the gun they have, regardless of make and model.
 
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I shot, and carried a Rossi .357 for 5 years, and never had a FTF or any kind of malfunction. Probably put tens of thousands of rounds through it too.

That said my next .357 will likely be a Ruger GP100, since I make more money now, than I did back then.......

Edit: and I carried in a nylon holster too. The horror!
 
An extra mag is not necessary. Therefore advising to carry one, esp for the reasons cited, is poor advice.

Wow. Talk about unsubstaintated personal opionion. A blunt "an extra mag is not neccessary" with nothing to back that up is funny when all the pro trainers I know recommend carrying an extra mag for EXACTLY the reasons I describe.

I also still don't see how advising someone to be better prepared is "poor advice." To me, poor advice is advice that would put the person in MORE danger, not have them do something which may not be absolutely necessary, but might actually be exactly what they need in the crisis, and in any event won't hurt them if they don't need that extra mag.

Remember the article was, "Carry like a pro," not "Do the minimum you think you can get away with." Carrying an extra mag is standard pro advice, which is why I gave it.

As to Rossi, I don't think they are quality handguns. They are better than nothing, but I don't recommend them if you can get something better and no "pro" that I know does either. Once again, it goes back to the theme of the article "Do what the pros do."

You can disagree with that central premise if you like, but I still don't see how advising someone to use a quality, pro-grade, handgun is "poor advice." The article wasn't "The best budget handguns."

As to Taurus, that was specficially on the Taurus Judge, not general Taurus hate. The Judge is an example of something silly that has because popular for some reason.

And there is a quality difference between an imported "knock off" of a Walther PPK and a real PPK. And, again, the idea is to promote a quality handgun instead of the cheapest handgun you can possibly find. (I also have reservations about recommending a Walther PPK specifically for the fact they weren't designed to feed modern JHP's. The new S&W made guns may be better on this. I have little experience with those so I can't say).

I'd say a pro knows how to run the gun they have, regardless of make and model.

Excellent point! If I would have thought of that, I would have said it. I wish I had. I may work that idea into some other article.

So if I have a malfunction am I supposed to tap rack bang or change my mag?

That's a real questions that deserves a real answer. It depends on the malfunction. The standard immediate response is "Tap Rack Bang." If that doesn't work, and you have a double-feed, part of the clearance technique is the rip the mag out of the gun (and then work the slide). Once you've done that, the "pro advice" is to insert a NEW mag, if you have one, as the problem may likely be mag related and putting the suspected "bad" mag in may cause another problem. Of course, if you only have one mag, put it back in as you have no other choice.

One last thought: Yes, the article is my opinion. You can't write an "advice to shooters" type article without expressing opinions as there is practically NOTHING every shooter (or every CCW carrier or every "pro") will agree on.

But, an article has to have a viewpoint or it becomes as general as "Do what you want. It's all good." I believe that some choices are better than others and this was my atempt to lay out what I believe are the better choices, especially for someone new to concealed carry who really needs some sort of guide to help get them started.

There are my opinions, but they are opinions based on my training and experience, and they coincide with what is pretty much "the professional consensus" among police and private citizen firearms trainers.

And, of course, any article this short has to be an oversimplification. I'm sure you can find some cop or other "pro" who disagrees with something I said. But, I believe this type of advice is pretty much the standard.

I do listen to feedback and appreciate what readers say. A dialouge is more interesting than a monolouge. There are things readers say that I take to heart that change what I write or how I present it. There are other times I just have to know that not everyone is going to agree and "you can't please everyone."
 
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I never addressed this and you wanted me to:

And you ignore my point that Charters were popular back up and off duty guns and Rossi's are certainly no worse and likely better.

Both Charters (especially the 2nd gen, I believe) and Rossis are known for uneven QC. I'm not a fan of either one for that reason. Rossi's may, in fact, be better than Charters. If they are, it's not enough of a difference to make a difference to me. I also wonder how popular either one are as back up guns/off duty guns today, instead of say 20 years ago or so.
 
Posted by Bubba613: An extra mag is not necessary. Therefore advising to carry one, esp for the reasons cited, is poor advice.
That subject has been discussed in numerous threads. Opinion vary. Of course carrying an extra magazine is "not necessary", in the same sense that carrying a firearm is not necessary, but there are many very well informed people who do consider it to be a prudent thing to do.

Nice but not responsive to what I wrote. Which was that diagnosing and fixing a mag failure will take at least 8 seconds. The instructors mentioned probably had much more training than the average permit holder. They also knew they would be doing that particular drill. Big difference.
Trained shooters are "programmed" either to replace the magazine immediately upon experiencing a failure or to do so if shoving and racking the slide does not resolve a malfunction almost instantly, and they practice doing so quickly.

When random failures are induced in training, they do so.

I suppose it could take someone eight seconds or more...but it doesn't take me that long, and I do not practice as much as I should.

The instructors do have more training than the average permit holder. In ST&T we consider training very important, and we believe that most permit holders should have more training than they do.
 
I know a pro that carries a taurus
I'd like to know what kind of pro & which Taurus?
They have ALOT of training and know their stuff
What type of training? I'm not taking a pirate's stand with ya' as rabidly anti-Taurus. I've simply never seen or even heard of a professional (competitive) shooter in any discipline choosing a Taurus. If you know of an LEO or military professional with "ALOT of training" who "knows their stuff" that chooses one, I would simply appreciate more details. IMHO, unless it's a rigid budgetary restriction I can't imagine that choice. In fact, does anyone know of an LE organization (outside of Brazil) that even authorizes Taurus carry by their officers? :cool:
 
For ten years I trained to do tactical and stress reloading on the range by my Dept, and I always carry a spare mag. Heck, sometimes I carry a spare gun! I looked into the face of Evil every work day, and realized that advantages that are easily acquired shouldn't be easily discounted.
Charter Arms? My first centerfire handgun way back in the day was a Charter Arms Off Duty 38 snub. I was the only one in my high school group that could shoot it well. :) Yes, we carried guns openly at that age here, LEGALLY. Now if you said CharCo or Charter 2000, nope, not for me.
Owned Rossi, too, not a bad gun.
Suppose a single mother working two jobs to keep food on the table wants to buy a gun due to her crazy ex stalking her, but the best she can afford is a Raven 25 ACP? Better that than nothing. Hopefully she can save up over time for something nicer, like those $150 Taurus 38 revolver trade ins at J&G Sales, but maybe the bills are too much for that, better a gun that she can afford for now. If she lives in AZ, AK WY or VT she won't need to spend money for a permit, either.
Just pointing out there is always two sides to any coin, and many different ways to look at it, as well. I have a high quality sidearm in high quality leather and gun belt with spare magazines, but I don't ever consider myself a "pro". That's the term I use for the professional shooters at IDPA/IPSC, and I will NEVER be that good of a shot! :)
 
My only comment pertains to "playing" with the gun (and this is more a clarification than disagreement). My daughter just purchased her first gun (for home defense, mainly), and I advised her to check, double check, then recheck that it is unloaded and handle it enough to become intimately familiar with how it feels and where all controls are located... even then, treat the gun as if it were loaded and point the barrel in a safe direction. A firearm should feel natural in the hand, and practice in bringing the gun to hand should be a priority.
 
Wow. Talk about unsubstaintated personal opionion. A blunt "an extra mag is not neccessary" with nothing to back that up is funny when all the pro trainers I know recommend carrying an extra mag for EXACTLY the reasons I describe.

I also still don't see how advising someone to be better prepared is "poor advice." To me, poor advice is advice that would put the person in MORE danger, not have them do something which may not be absolutely necessary, but might actually be exactly what they need in the crisis, and in any event won't hurt them if they don't need that extra mag.
Yes, "all the pros" recommend it. SO it must be so.
I did back it up. Recognizing a failure, diagnosing it, digging out the mag and changing it is all going to take 8 seconds. Minimum. As you yourself write:
That's a real questions that deserves a real answer. It depends on the malfunction. The standard immediate response is "Tap Rack Bang." If that doesn't work, and you have a double-feed, part of the clearance technique is the rip the mag out of the gun (and then work the slide). Once you've done that, the "pro advice" is to insert a NEW mag, if you have one, as the problem may likely be mag related and putting the suspected "bad" mag in may cause another problem. Of course, if you only have one mag, put it back in as you have no other choice.
So, how long until you realize there is a problem? I've seen IDPA shooters take about 1 second to recognize their guns aren't firing. Real stress with bad guys shooting, it might be a lot longer. Execute tap-rack: 2 seconds? Three seconds? See if that works. Again, 2-3 seconds. Rip, rack, tap rack, 3 seconds. Dump old mag, fish for new mag, replace, rack and fire: 2 seconds? That's about 8 seconds. (And that assumes we don't drop the magazine or the gun--both of which happen)With gun fights over well before that it wont happen. Fortunately mags don't fail that often. Especially if one uses factory mags and more so if the mag is not for a pistol whose model ends in 11.
As for being "better prepared", there is no end to that. Flashlight? Knife? (not bad ideas). Mirror? Screw driver? Water purification tablets? Snake bite kit?
 
Both articles have some good info. Some that I question, and a bit I disagree with. But that's the nature of humans. Experience is different for each of us and thus our positions on any given subject.

There is one thing I will take issue with here. The don't buy a Rossi or similar firearms. Nice attitude, "IF" you can afford better. Not everyone is in a position to buy a Smith, or even a Ruger wheel gun. But, a well cared for and tested Rossi is one heck of a lot better than no handgun.

I've been there. At that time, my one and only firearm was a 20 ga Franchi shotgun. I bought it for upland game. But had to have the barrel shortened so that it could be easily handled indoors.

Now some will say, save your pennies. Nice attitude, but again a jar full of pennies isn't much good when a handgun is needed.
 
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