Advised not to go to 30-30 AI with Marlin 336

Status
Not open for further replies.
Eb1

Eb1

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
3,010
Location
USA
I just received an e-mail from a gunsmith I was asking to have the 30-30 AI conversion performed on my 336W.
I was advised that since I had a micro-grooved barrel that I would strip the rifling by shooting at AI speeds.

I am confused because I shoot a 125 grain FNHP at 2500 fps already. That is faster than a 150 grain or 170 grain factory bullet.

Does this warning hold water?
 
At one time Marlin offered Microgroove .30-06. Barrel life was not as long as with standard rifling, but I never heard of bullets "stripping." I don't think you will gain enough velocity in an AI to exceed that. I don't think you will gain a whole lot at all, not without increasing pressure as well as volume, but trying is what makes it fun, I guess.
 
I might be able to push the 125 grain from Sierra at 2500 with lower pressure? Could I not?
Wouldn't making the should and case longer lower the pressure to the gun?
 
Eb1 said:
I just received an e-mail from a gunsmith I was asking to have the 30-30 AI conversion performed on my 336W.
I was advised that since I had a micro-grooved barrel that I would strip the rifling by shooting at AI speeds.

I am confused because I shoot a 125 grain FNHP at 2500 fps already. That is faster than a 150 grain or 170 grain factory bullet.

Does this warning hold water?
Click to expand...
Complete nonsense. As has been pointed out, Marlin has made Microgroove 30-06s with no problems.

I wouldn't do the change because IMO it's not worth the trouble, but that's another issue entirely.
 
Not exactly. It is this issue. Why would you not do the conversion? I have several 30-30s. I'd like to have this done. I like to shoot. I also think that some of my loads shoot well at lower velocities with slower powder @ lighter loads, and I think that I could get the groups to come back together by pushing them harder since at max loads they start to come back together, but I can't push them any harder in the standard 30-30 configuration.

I have some really nice groups with Hornady 170 grain and Winchester 760, but the velocities are really low. Couldn't I safely push them up a couple hundred fps by going to an AI chamber?
 
According to one of my sources a typical .30-30 case holds 44.5 grains of H2O. The AI version 46.6 gr.

Plugging those volumes into a Powley Computer, while keeping everything else equal, with a 170 gr bullet there is a 50 fps increase by going to the AI case.

Letting the pressure increase 5% the AI case will see a 120 fps increase over a standard case. 50 fps coming from the volume increase, and 70 fps from the pressure increase.

Homer Powley was a pretty smart gent and I've found his internal ballistics equations to be valid, especially when the value changes are small - like what we're talking about here.
 
So 2300 fps with a 170 grain bullet.

What about a 125 grain bullet at 2.45 OAL?
 
Eb1 said:
Not exactly. It is this issue.
Click to expand...
No, "this issue" was the barrel stripping, which is nonsense.

Eb1 said:
Why would you not do the conversion?
Click to expand...

Because:

You won't get that much more velocity out of it. With most - though not all - AI conversions the figures people quote are caused by HOT handloads, not extra capacity.

It will ruin the future collector / resale value of the gun. If you don't think that a North Haven Marlin will be a collector piece one day, that's what they used to think about Winchesters and Colt revolvers.

If you're hunting under conditions that suit a 30-30, great. If you need a flatter shooting gun, get a 308.

If you must have something flatter shooting and you must have it in a 336 package, get some LeveRevolution ammo. You could buy enough of it for the price of a reamer and AI dies to hunt for quite some time.

Keep in mind that these are the reasons *I* wouldn't do this conversion. YMMV.
 
+1

First your gunsmith is wrong about the increased velocity of the AE version stripping out the bullets.

Because the actual velocity increase is too small to be noticeable or hardly measurable.
Or cost / benefit sensible in the least.

rc
 
Hornady pointy gimmick ammo sucks if'n you ask me.
 
If your rifle(s) shoots the Hornady FTX bullet well enough, it's superior ballistic coefficient, compared to standard flat nose bullets, automatically adds at least 25yds to your range.

That probably equates to the added range that going AI would do for you.

Now if you combine both???????????????


NCsmitty
 
Sure. It doesn't shoot good at all in any of my 30-30s. I feel that a good soft point 150 grain or a 125 grain FNHP works just as well out to 250 yards for much less cost.

Gimmick might have been a harsh word. I am sure it works well for some just not for me. I have seen deer shot with it, and it doesn't do anything that a 125 grain Sierra FNHP or a 150 grain PowerPoint doesn't do to the deer.

I have pretty much went to shooting the 125 grain Sierra FNHP exclusively in my 30-30. They are accurate, penetrate deep if not clean through, and I have had to chase less deer with the same shot placement as regular soft points. Plus the recoil is less. Recoil on a 30-30 isn't bad, but everyone knows that a 30-30 doesn't come with a recoil pad so shooting 170 grain bullets for a length of time becomes painful at times.

I think the Hornady was a good thing to keep the 30-30 a live a few more years by good marketing. Other than that it really doesn't do much for the 30-30 that the 30-30 hasn't been doing for years.
Most people I know who needs to shoot over 200 yards use a .308, .270, .25-06, 30-06 or larger. Not in any particulate order. I know I do, but I have never had a problem hitting or killing a deer at 200-250 yards with a 30-30 before Hornady ammo came around.
 
Eb1 said:
Sure. It doesn't shoot good at all in any of my 30-30s.
Click to expand...
That's a pretty good reason why you don't care for it.

Eb1 said:
Recoil on a 30-30 isn't bad, but everyone knows that a 30-30 doesn't come with a recoil pad so shooting 170 grain bullets for a length of time becomes painful at times.

[the Hornady] really doesn't do much for the 30-30 that the 30-30 hasn't been doing for years.....

I have never had a problem hitting or killing a deer at 200-250 yards with a 30-30 before Hornady ammo came around.
Click to expand...

So what exactly do you hope to accomplish with a conversion to 30-30 AI?
 
Well I like to hand load and shoot guns. I'd enjoy fire forming the cases. I'd enjoy trying new techniques in loading.
I'd like to get a bump in velocity using 125 grain FNHP from Sierra without overloading the standard 30-30 cartridge.

Maybe even buying a single barrel 30-30 and loading nice pointy bullets into the .30-30 like the 125 grain BT. Maybe even shooting a 2 shot in one of my lever guns.
I like to coyote hunt. I have guns that would work great for that. Even my basic 30-30 loads now work great with a 110 grain Speer half jacket and the 125 grain Sierra.

Nothing is a need here. It is all wants.

I hunt deer in a little wooded area in the County where a 50 yard shot would be a long shot. There are plenty of deer, and they have to come through this pass for any kind of concealment from the elements such as people, cars, dogs, etc.
I load the 30-30 to 2150 fps using that 125 Sierra FNHP, and the whoopin' it puts on deer up to 175 lbs is just amazing. I could load them faster to 2450, but that is max, and I have done it. I was thinking I could get 2450 fps with less pressure by making it an AI chamber.
 
Eb1 said:
Hornady pointy gimmick ammo sucks if'n you ask me.
Click to expand...
My 336 in .35 Remington just loves Hornady Leverlutions, so much so that I can put 3 shots into 1 ragged hole at 100 yds. with these. So far, I'm unable to duplicate this kind of accuracy with my reloads in the .35.
 
Last edited:
LeverEvolution Powder

Hodgdon lists the 170 Sierra FP at 2332 fps and the 150 Sierra FN at 2515 fps well within pressure limits with their LeverEvolution powder. That's the highest velocities I have seen in the standard 30-30, and if I can ever find any I am going to try it in my M94. Might be an option for you...
 
I'd do it not so much for the increased performance but for the decrease in case stretching. From my understanding the AI chamber virtually eliminates stretch and increases brass life substantially. No need to fireform ammo either, just shoot factory spec .30-30 and it ejects as a properly formed AI. Any increase in performance or decrease in pressures would be a bonus IMO.
 
Manny, that is what I am getting at. I think this rifle will end up as something else anyway. Be it 30-30AI or some other lever cartridge that the 336 can be used.
 
Not interested in the .35 Remington. Maybe a 38-55?
 
38/55 or 375 doesn't do anything 35 rem wont. Plus with the vintage Remington auto loader round you have the ability to make super cheap trail boss plinking loads using very inexpensive 38/357 commercial cast bullets.
 
.35 Remington just doesn't do anything for me. Kinda like the .243 Winchester. I know that a lot of calibers just overrun the others, and it is spit in one hand and well you know how that goes.

I mean keeping it 30-30 would be as good as a .35 Remington to me. To be honest. I am really tired of loading bottle neck cartridges. Might go with something different all together by selling this rifle.
I wouldn't mind having a .44 Winchester lever action. Irons only and only plink with it, and use it as a ATV gun.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

M
  • Locked
336-RC accurracy
Replies
6
Views
2K
LeonCarr
L
Dave Markowitz
  • Locked
  • Poll
Best .30-30 load for whitetail?
Replies
19
Views
4K
mainmech48
M
R
  • Locked
Stable bullet weight for 30-30
Replies
1
Views
356
Vern Humphrey
V
Eb1
  • Locked
Marlin 30-30 reloading issue
Replies
18
Views
885
Roadkill
R
B
  • Locked
30-30 loads
Replies
17
Views
1K
moooose102
M
Back
Top