Affordable AR Upper

[Sergeant Sabre]

Mamertime,

I felt I should add to my post above. First, let me give you the bottom line up-front: There is no reason to buy that DPMS upper for that price, which has a barrel and bolt of unknown steel type, nobody knows if the bolt is shot-peened, the bolt is not HPT or MPI tested, the gas key is not staked properly, the bolt carrier doesn't have a shrouded firing pin, and the chamber very well may not be truly 5.56mm, when you can get an upper from Palmetto State Armory that has a carpenter 158 steel, shot-peened, HPT/MPI bolt, 4150 steel barrel, perfectly-staked gas key, M-16 bolt carrier, M4 feed-ramps, and a properly-cut 5.56mm chamber.

Start reading at the below links to see why people recommend the rifle brands they do. It's not just price-snobbery. There are actual specs that come with the price, like a bolt made of the correct type of steel, properly shot-peened and tested, so you can be sure it is as durable as possible.

It's up to you to decide if you need any of these things or not, but my advice to you is don't buy that DPMS, with none of the "correct" specs, when something else is available for the same price (or slightly more) that is known to be made of the proper materials and with the correct construction and testing methods.

Explanation of the proper specs and why they are important. Note the chart linked in the yellow field at the top specifies that DPMS did not respond to requests to provide the information. That's a clue:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html

Here is a 51 page thread discussing different brands and how they fit into the specs above:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642

If you read all of that, and still want a DPMS, well, it's your money.

 

[Redlg155]

I've used DPMS products before and have been very happy. Their 18" barrels are some of the most accurate I have seen. I used one on my last build. If I'm not mistaken, DPMS builds AR rifles for Remington.

Shop around for the best prices as you can definitely get uppers cheaper. I would also reconsider the A2 and look at a flat top upper.

 

[Tex4426]

If its a deal your looking for check out gun broker...u don't have to ship an upper to an offline...I've found many deal on uppers on there but opted to order a custom rock river built upper..cost me about 750 shipped + a 60 day lead time..that upper includes match stainlees HBAR..quad rails bcm gunfighter latch, chrome bolt...in my opinion for what I wanted it was priced right

 

[fatcat4620]

Go to the PSA website right now

 

[Mamertine]

I appreciate the input.

I want an attached carry handle. DSA and PSA don't seem to sell them. In fact many of the manufacturers don't seem to sell uppers with a carry handle.

regarding The Chart, I'm not too worried that DPMS declined to submit data to a forum where they get a lot of abuse. I'm aware that DPMS isn't a high end manufacturer.

The recent comments have had me look around a bit more, specifically at Olympic Arms, so I do welcome all input.

 

[Tex4426]

No offense mamertime but u sound like another Guy building something to mimik what the military uses( not always a bad thing) but do urdelf a favor at least get one with a removable handle...I have one with a carry handle...even with a 3/4 inch cheek riser its hard to see down the sights ...will have an a4 as soon as I have time to switch out the recievers...u can always raise the sights but u can't lower an a2

 

[jem375]

Mamertime,

I felt I should add to my post above. First, let me give you the bottom line up-front: There is no reason to buy that DPMS upper for that price, which has a barrel and bolt of unknown steel type, nobody knows if the bolt is shot-peened, the bolt is not HPT or MPI tested, the gas key is not staked properly, the bolt carrier doesn't have a shrouded firing pin, and the chamber very well may not be truly 5.56mm, when you can get an upper from Palmetto State Armory that has a carpenter 158 steel, shot-peened, HPT/MPI bolt, 4150 steel barrel, perfectly-staked gas key, M-16 bolt carrier, M4 feed-ramps, and a properly-cut 5.56mm chamber.

Start reading at the below links to see why people recommend the rifle brands they do. It's not just price-snobbery. There are actual specs that come with the price, like a bolt made of the correct type of steel, properly shot-peened and tested, so you can be sure it is as durable as possible.

It's up to you to decide if you need any of these things or not, but my advice to you is don't buy that DPMS, with none of the "correct" specs, when something else is available for the same price (or slightly more) that is known to be made of the proper materials and with the correct construction and testing methods.

Explanation of the proper specs and why they are important. Note the chart linked in the yellow field at the top specifies that DPMS did not respond to requests to provide the information. That's a clue:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html

Here is a 51 page thread discussing different brands and how they fit into the specs above:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642

If you read all of that, and still want a DPMS, well, it's your money.

Well, at least you got one thing right, it is his money.....

 

[Mamertine]

Tex4426 That's an interesting point that I may have overlooked. I'm going to have to make sure that is where I want the sights. I like open sights and my first experience with an AR was with a carry handle, but at that point I hadn't learned the advantage of getting a good cheek weld.

 

[briang2ad]

PSA is worth a look.

Why spend $500 on a piece of junk? You can save a bit more, and get a BCM upper in the ballpark of $600. It will be made right - period. You'll save money to spend a bit more for a real upper.

 

[StrutStopper]

Tex, you can remove the handle... with a hack saw. Getting a removable one or just an M4 upper may be a better option after all. This may be worth checking out

http://vtsupply.com/lmt-basic-16-upper-receiver-assembly-1-7-5-56-223-flash-hider.html

 

[Sergeant Sabre]

The recent comments have had me look around a bit more, specifically at Olympic Arms, so I do welcome all input.

Out of the frying pan and into the fire. If that's the other option you're going to look at, just get the DPMS.

 

[gotboostvr]

The price difference between a DPMS and a standard BCM is 20 dollars. either upper still needs a Bolt carrier group and a charging handle.

DPMS uses lesser materials in their builds, and skips some desirable features.
BCM is considered top of the line and are very consistent.
For a 20 dollar difference I think this is a no brainer.

For your BCG, again BCM produces one of the best ones on the market, while DPMS makes one with faulty gas key staking which is such a easy to do task it makes you wonder what else they glassed over. again the price difference is only about 20 dollars.

Charging handle? grab a cheap used one, or a slick ambi/over sized one if you feel like paying just a little bit more.

GandRtacitcal.com has some good deals on BCM parts and the Grant seems like one of the most stand up guys in the firearms business right now.

Buy once, cry once. Just because they look the same dosen't mean they are the same. If you don't feel like going with BCM, Palmetto State Armory also puts out some fantastic looking gear at slightly lower prices.

 

[35 Whelen]

Del-Ton Inc. will sell you an upper from $400. They will sell you a "kit" with everything except a stripped lower for just under $500. They are a decent company to deal with as well.
Best, Dave

+1. I put a Del-Ton kit on a PSA lower and have been pleased. I shot it again Saturday in a High Power match and shot an Expert score (715). Nothing to write home about, but I'm new to AR's as I've never been a fan of them. that's my third match and the only problems I had were in the first match when occassionally the bolt wouldn't completely close on a chambered round. A couple of drops of oil, and that's never happened again in over 250 rounds of competition and load development.
So, given the fact that I'm not all that fond of them and not that familiar with shooting them, I think they're OK. Really, I think they're all fairly similar in quality with the possible exception of the barrel.
I'm curious, what makes, for example, a BCM better than the others? If they're all mil-spec, shouldn't they function the same? I've noticed with AR fans, people seem to get all wrapped up in a name, which means lots of folks are likely paying alot more $$$$ for the same quality.

35W

 

[fatcat4620]

+1.
I'm curious, what makes, for example, a BCM better than the others? If they're all mil-spec, shouldn't they function the same? I've noticed with AR fans, people seem to get all wrapped up in a name, which means lots of folks are likely paying alot more $$$$ for the same quality.

35W

35 Whelen,
milspec is a bare minimum requirement and upper level companies go above and beyond those specs. An example would be to go backpacking with in milspec boots, sleep on amilspec tent, and carry a milspec pack.

 

[briang2ad]

You can go "cheap" with a hunting rifle. I'm SURE you can buy a Savage 110 from a pawn shop and be just as successful on your hunting trip as a guy who buys a SAKO. It can be done.

It is a completely different thing in buying an AR - totally different. If you don't know the terms "shot peened bolt, or "staked carrier" and "TDP" don't buy an AR till you do. It just isn't worth trowing away hundreds of dollars. Read.

 

[jimbombo]

psa

I just picked up my second psa upper, was so pleased with the first one! I just ordered the 16" mid length cmv classic with a bcg with shipping for little over 400. I am no ar expert but the first upper I got from them looked awesome and worked flawlessly! I am sure the dpms Is just fine. But for the same money psa is advertising CMV steel, chrome lined bore and chamber, MPI, staked bolt! And more importantly everyone here (most everyone) agrees psa is a great value!

 

[briang2ad]

Milspec is not a desireable thing or 'nice to have' - there is a reason for it in a AR. They are things that make sure the AR does what it is designed to do - and not just for full auto firing.

If you must "save" go PSA. Save a bit more, and by BCM.

MPI, HPT, "properly staked", 4150, CMV,and TDP are things to know about an AR, before spending several hundred dollars.

 

[35 Whelen]

35 Whelen,
milspec is a bare minimum requirement and upper level companies go above and beyond those specs. An example would be to go backpacking with in milspec boots, sleep on amilspec tent, and carry a milspec pack.

So "bare minimum" is always bad?

When I read these type threads I always see brands names thrown around over and over. It seems the general consensus is if it isn't expensive, it won't work. This goes against my limited experience with my home-built, $500 rifle which easily groups 1 1/2" and less @ 100 yds. and has gone "bang" every time for somewhere around 500 shots fired.



Seems to me how it does when the trigger is pulled and how well it groups is far more important than what name is stamped on it.

And BTW, I strongly suggest a flat top even if you plan to use a carry handle and sights. I've found that being able to switch back and forth between a scope and carry handle without losing zero to be very convenient.

35W

 

[Sergeant Sabre]

So "bare minimum" is always bad?

When I read these type threads I always see brands names thrown around over and over. It seems the general consensus is if it isn't expensive, it won't work. This goes against my limited experience with my home-built, $500 rifle which easily groups 1 1/2" and less @ 100 yds. and has gone "bang" every time for somewhere around 500 shots fired.

Seems to me how it does when the trigger is pulled and how well it groups is far more important than what name is stamped on it.

And BTW, I strongly suggest a flat top even if you plan to use a carry handle and sights. I've found that being able to switch back and forth between a scope and carry handle without losing zero to be very convenient.

35W

This is what usually follows posts about what materials and construction methods will result in the bare minimum for a reliable, durable AR. First off, group size is nothing to judge reliability and durability by. Second, 500 rounds is not even close to a lot. Not even slightly.

Consider this: The US Department of Defense says most bolts on an M4 Carbine will develop cracks by several thousand rounds, and all of them will crack by 6,000 (I think that's the number. I can dig up the brief if you want), with bolt failure occurring at an unpredictable time after that. That's for a carpenter 158, shot-peened, HPT, MPI bolt. The bolt in your Bushmaster, DPMS, or Olympic is none of those. How long will it last? The bolt is a very high-stress, high-impact part on an AR. It's no place to cut corners.

The fact is there are AR makers out there cutting a lot of corners on their rifles counting on uninformed consumers buying them for way too much money because they think they are "just as good" as a properly-constructed AR. These makers count on those consumers putting pathetically low round-counts through those rifles in a few range sessions per year. Read back and see how many "My DPMS has been fine through 200 rounds!" posts, or others in that vein, there already are in this thread through less than two pages.

I guess if all one plans on doing is shooting a few hundred rounds a year, if that, in a couple of range sessions, a DPMS may be enough for you. But if you're set on that price range why would you buy DPMS when, for the same price, you can get a PSA that at least has all the right materials in the right places, the correct gas key staking, and everything else considered critical under the TDP? What could possibly be the down-side, compared to a DPMS or Olympic?