After-Action Debrief - How Do We Improve For Next Time

[bfieldburt]

Summary...the Good Stuff

So, after this entire S.1805, what do we have?

#1 Good thing: recorded votes on very important gun issues.

I was once told by a lobbyist, here in Utah, that legislators HATE recorded votes on controversial issues. Why? Because they want to have their cake and eat it too. "I support the Second Amendment"...as all the while they do nothing or actually work against our rights behind the scenes. A recorded vote, however, proves and shows their positions, one way or another. These recorded votes then allow us citizens to target certain people for early political retirement and appropriately praise the people who support us.

#2 We learned how to execute a call in/mail in campaign.

I think we did all right on this. However, as an example, I didn't find the 1-800 number until half way through this little adventure. Also, throught this, I figured out when it worked and when it didn't--mainly after hours.

I could add a #3 and #4 etc....

But how about everyone else? What did we all learn here? Let's post some stuff because we are going to have to do all this all over again (you all know it), and it could be fairly soon.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

All in all, not a bad performance... we bogged down CSPAN, tied up the Capitol Hill switchboard and evidently had an effect on several votes (thought not as many as we would have liked).

To cite some examples of what we got done:

Sen. George Allen (R-VA) flipped from an AWB supporter to one who opposed renewal of the ban and is on record now as supporting us.

Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI) voted against the AWB renewal.

Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) had introduced one bill pushing gun shows and had accepted better than $2 million of money from AGS (who supports both the ban renewal and strengthening it); but he didn't vote for renewal.

On the other hand, we spent a lot of time repeating the same information and we were all often on different pages and confused about exactly what had just happened during the process.

We ARE going to have this fight again one day. What can we as individuals do to improve and make sure next time, we work smoother and more efficiently towards our goals? How do we better share and distribute information?

 

[444]

Something I am going to do next time around is make it easy for people I know to contact their representitives in Washington.
I am going to do this by printing up a cover sheet containing the names, addresses and phone numbers of our officials in this area. I am then going to print up generic letters to them supporting the pro-gun agenda. I am going to provide stamped, addressed envelopes. As I talk to my friends about pending legislation, I am going to give them an opportunity to sign a letter and put it in an envelope. I am then going to offer them the use of my cell phone to immediately call the person in quesiton and express their veiw point. I am also going to provide an outline of what they might say. In other words I am going to try to prevent them from putting it off. I am going to provide them with an immediate avenue along with peer pressure so there is no excuse for not doing it.

Out of the half dozen or so people I know personally, that I shoot with all the time, not one of them lifted a finger to contact their elected officals in Washington about this matter.

 

[fix]

THR specific

I suggest a "transcript only" thread, restricted to only those who are actively providing quotes and votes. Then start another thread for discussion of the transcript. Other than the HUGE post counts, I thought everything went well. Very happy to see the virtual flood of new members on those CSPAN threads. Perhaps some coordination between the various gun boards would be a good thing as well. Maybe a rotating "political watchdog" duty.

 

[Denny Hansen]

I posted a modest proposal for the fall elections here;
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68603

Denny

 

[Jeff White]

bfieldburt,
I was on the verge of running out and buying some prepaid phone cards so I could PM the numbers and pins to members who were at work and needed to call, when you found the 800 numbers. Thanks

I think that the anthrax and ricin scares helped us. Staffers had to pay attention to e-mails because of the delay in getting snail mail into the offices.

I think we did an outstanding job. I suggest we sit on things for a couple days, then take a long look at the threads and come up with a plan to be even more efficient next time.

Jeff

 

[Jim March]

I see this, overall, as a good thing.

The AWB renewal is now TOAST. Ain't no way in hell it'll happen between now and the Nov. election.

We'll buy a whole buncha bangtoys an' standard mags, violence won't increase, grabbers will look like morons a year from now. Even a President Kerry won't push to renew it.

 

[SodiumBenzoate]

I agree it is unlikely the AW ban will be renewed. However, I think it is very possible a new one gets passed in '05 or '06.

 

[Diggler]

I think that since this seems to be THE place to go for up to the minute news about stuff like this (heck, even Tom Gresham showed up! ) that there should be a PERMANENT sticky with all the home area contact numbers, emails, 800 numbers and everything else that popped up during this song and dance. Writing, calling and such shouldn't just be when they're so busy debating on the floor. I think you get heard a lot more during lulls in the action.

So keep these numbers here, and let's keep the pressure on!

 

[Mark Tyson]

I agree it is unlikely the AW ban will be renewed. However, I think it is very possible a new one gets passed in '05 or '06.

We don't really know what the political climate will be like that far ahead ... stay vigilant but don't be too cynical.

 

[Waitone]

The advice to let the dust settle is sound.

Perhaps in a few days moderators or perhaps members who know something about lobbying can post carefully targeted sticky posts so we can improve our performance.

Time will tell how and if we were effective.

 

[Jeff White]

We can't let our guard down. We squeaked by today. But there is no limit to what they might do to get their agenda through. Mcain could come out as a Democrat and chenge the makeup in the senate.

They also won pretty big. Feinstein could have the nerve to introduce it on it's own. I don't know how it would do without many senators voting for it in the hopes it would have been stripped out in the house. I just know I won't rest until I get up in the morning on September the 14th and know that my R6920 actually belongs to me.

Jeff

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Mr. Tom Gresham could possibly be asked to educate us.

 

[Mark Tyson]

Here's an idea: get a copy of Kennedy's armor-piercing ammo amendment, which basically bans any useful centerfire rifle ammo. Highlight the relevant passages and turn it into a flyer for our hunter friends who can't be bothered to fight with us. And make sure the flyer lists all the senators who voted for it. That's going to have more effect in the hunting crowd than the AWB vote.

Actually a flyer or poster or any media would work, it's the message that counts.

 

[bfieldburt]

Mike, good idea, I like it. Cheap to do. We all have computers and copiers. We could then just post it at all the sporting good and gun shops around.

 

[Crom]

10 Republican Senators broke ranks and voted for the AWB amendment, that's what, around a 20% defection rate? It's unbelievable that it had that much support from Republicans.

Who knows what would have happened if it had reached the House Of Representatives. Fortunately that didn't occur as the NRA decided to kill the bill in the Senate (after all the hoopla from Knox and a few others about how the anti-gun amendments would be stripped out in comitttee. Maybe the NRA discovered the support for AWB renewal is stronger than they anticipated and didn't want to take the chance, who knows.)

If 20% of the House RINO's would defect, no doubt it would pass.

I don't think the AWB is dead by any means. It had considerable support IMO. It's also a long way from September and a lot can happen.

I am with Jeff on this, I won't rest until September 14th comes around with no renewal.

 

[greyhound]

We don't really know what the political climate will be like that far ahead ... stay vigilant but don't be too cynical.

I agree....history tells us at some point we are going to have a Democrat in the White House and a Democratic Congress. Long term, we need to make 2A a bi-partisan issue, and not have Republican Presidents saying they will sign a AWB ban, or Democratic candidates repeating over and over that 2A=hunting.

We ARE different from the UK, Canada, Australia, and Europe, no matter how much the leftists want to push us in that direction.

(In fairness to our friends in those places, there is lots to be admired in your countries/continents, but lately your record regarding people's rights to arm themselves is not one of them).

 

[Highland Ranger]

that there should be a PERMANENT sticky with all the home area contact numbers, emails, 800 numbers and everything else that popped up during this song and dance.

Yeah good idea - a permanent sticky how-to, that includes what to do and how to do. So someone gives the word and those that don't know how to help go to one thread and execute the instructions.

I'll start off a few:

1. Suscribe to the NRA-ILA legislative alerts at: http://www.nra.org/frame.cfm?title=NRA Institute for Legislative Action&url=http://www.nraila.org

2. Write your Senators and Congresspeople; easy through the NRA web site: http://www.nra.org/frame.cfm?title=NRA Institute for Legislative Action&url=http://www.nraila.org

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Mark Tyson- excellent idea. I'll bet dollars to donuts that Sportsmans Wharehouse and Cabellas outlets would let a box full of those fliers sit on thier gun counters!!!

In fact if someone a little more computer smarts than me will put it together, I know three gun shops in Utah valley that would be happy to allow this.

 

[manwithoutahome]

Here is what I'm going to do (besides find those 800 numbers, I don't know how much it's going to cost on minutes on my Cell, was at work and I called both smith and wyden to express my anger at them voting yea on the awb renewal, traitors!). I am NOT going to let them rest. I am going to write a letter to both of them, weekly, stating that I am a registered voter (with a copy of my card on the back) and fax them also. If anything like this appears in any bill for the renewal, I will expand my minutes, dang the cost, to call their offices. When they are in recess and they are back here, I will call them weekly.

For anyone that has RINO's out there that voted yea for the anti gun amendments, I suggest you do the same.

As for the ones that have blatant RINO's like you in VA, well, put the bum out on his buttocks!

Also remember folks, this year either only Presidental elections but a bus load in the house and senate. If scarry kerry gets the white house, we can still vote out the RINO's and pack the senate/house and just create a lame duck government for the next four years.

Oh, I'm going to write/call/fax the President also. Explain to him again that he won gore's home state, because of US, the gun owner. We gave him states that usually vote Democrat. Florida wouldn't have even been an issue if gore had won his own state!

You folks in CA, get boxer out of D.C. That run for office will be looked at closely. If she loses, then that will send out a message. Same when feinstein(sp) comes up for re-election.

For those in states that normally elect repubs into office, think about third parties. If the repubs start losing to 3rd parties in these states, that will start to send a HUGE message to both parties.

Also, I agree with the sticky thing. I came to THR to get up to date info. (which I knew would be posted within minutes of it coming out, heck, some of you folks were beating google news and others ) and I had to read two or three threads to get all the information.

I had fun today, I've been highly active in calling and letter writing but today I did a months worth of all in less then one day, within minutes of getting voting data.

M

 

[Ironbarr]

Mark T...

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r108:4:./temp/~r108ytl2X3:e0:

 

[GigaBuist]

Well, I placed both my senators and Congressman on speed dial a few days ago.

Note: Senators is lower cased -- they do not deserve a capital letter. They were happy to lop on one ammendment after another. Thankfully neither voted FOR the final bill w/ the AWB on it.

Congressman was capitalized -- he's voted against the AWB as far as I can tell and voted for the repeal in 1996.

At any rate, they're on speed dial. I intend to call often from this day forth. What I want to know from fellow THR members is there any "harassment" charge that could be brought forth for doing so? I'm thinking every day calling and reminding them that I will do everything I can to turn every Democrat support away from their party for their actions in the S 1805 debate.

Heck, Levin (D-MI) proposed an ammendment that would have nullified the original bill. It was tabled thankfully.

I will "let loose" with a tirade of arguments any time I hear the names Stabenowe or Levin within ear shot. Polititely and well though out tirades. I will research their voting records in areas not concerned with firearms to make it known that they're Socialist [list of explitive's that Art's Grammah wouldn't like... or maybe would like this case] '*****.

I will remind hunter's that their beloved 30-30 and 30-06 are capable of defeating Level III vests and Ted Kennedy (D(runk) - Chapaquidick) wants to ban them for their lethality.

My local Congressman (Vern Ehlers) will receive weekly phone calls in all areas of interest voicing my support and urging him to keep his stance against the AWB and other 2nd ammendment infringements. All that know me will KNOW that I support him so long as he keeps voting the way he does. Need to some s'more research on him, but he's a old-school guy that's a scientist by nature. We tend to agree a lot it seems.

I will never, ever, miss a vote on the national level again in my life. I pissed away my vote when I was 18 (although honestly I had JUST moved and not re-registered)... I won't make that mistake again.

I will track down the website that I once saw selling "F--- Diane Feinstein" T-shirts and wear it proudly to adult-only (bar) establishments.

I will buy a plethora of AR and AK 30 round magazines (maybe even some 20 rounders) at the next gun show.

And I will make it known to all who wish to discuss politics with me that our "representatives" are not afraid of 30 rounds "fired from the hip" weapons. What they're really afraid of are the "one shot, one kill" weapons.

 

[Brett Bellmore]

10 Republican Senators broke ranks and voted for the AWB amendment, that's what, around a 20% defection rate? It's unbelievable that it had that much support from Republicans.

And yet there were a not insignificant number of Democratic defections, too. "Republicans pro-gun, Democrats anti-gun" is just too simplistic. If it had reached the House, there would have been Republicans voting for the ban, yes, but there would have been a lot of Democrats voting against it, too. Not a risk worth taking, but hardly a sure defeat.

The problem, of course, is that "Democrats controling Congress = anti-gunners in leadership positions" isn't too simplistic. Whereas Republicans controlling Congress, so far, has only lead to people who are indifferent to the 2nd amendment being in control. Clearly demonstrating that we can't be satisfied with electing Republicans. We've got to get a lot more involved in the primary level. Too many anti-gun or ambivalent Republicans are getting into the general election, where they can hit us with that, "But the other guy is worse!" defense.

 

[NRAninja]

Too many anti-gun or ambivalent Republicans are getting into the general election, where they can hit us with that, "But the other guy is worse!" defense.

Bellmore you are right about that. The main guy from the Virginia Citizen's Defense League posted on packing.org a few days ago about a conversation he had one of Warner's staffers (or maybe it was Allen's but I'm pretty sure Warner). VCDL guy was giving Warner's guy crap about how Warner is turning his back on them after opposing the ban back in the 90s and that he would urge all VCDL members to not back Warner. Then the Warner guy said "What are you going to do? Vote Democrat?" Haha. That sums it up right there. Virginia: Dump Wanrer!

 

[GSB]

One area for improvement is probably out of our hands. The leadership of the major Second Amendment groups needs to set aside their differences and not fall into petty bickering based on incomplete information and personal animosities. The gun-owner base can be mobilized, but they won't be cohesive if they are getting conflicting information from KABA and the NRA or the GOA. It was a pretty sorry spectacle at times, the last few days, much of which could have been avoided if some sobriety had been applied to the issue and certain groups had spent as much effort communicating and coordinating as they did firing shots across each others' bows (I'd try to mix a few more metaphors in there, but I'm out).