After proofing your gun, when do you "go back to zero" after a malfunction?

[MedWheeler]

Let's say you have a 200-rounds-to-proof your new defense pistol. You manage to fire off many times that, over an extended period of time (days, weeks, months, years, whatever) without malfunction, and are now carrying/storing the gun for defense.

Then, one fine day, you experience a single malfunction at the range. Nothing big, just a simple FTE or FTF.

Do you "go back to zero" and remove that weapon from service until your malfunction-free limit is again reached?

Under what conditions do you consider it okay to "chalk it up" as a fluke, instead?

It happened to me last week, with a firearm I keep loaded, but do not routinely carry or store for "readiness." I have removed it from said service but, as I mentioned, it wasn't "first up", anyway.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[jon86]

I accept the fact that machines can and will fail.

It's the indian, not the arrow. Practice malfunction drills. Gain confidence in your own skills.

If a gun has an easily cleared malfunction, I wouldn't write it off unless the problem keeps occuring.

However, my opinion comes from the fact that I am not financially able to sell off a firearm and buy new guns every month.

I gotta run what I brung!

 

[AlphaVictorTango]

Was this malfunction on a clean weapon using a proven mag and proven/carry ammo. If yes then time to carry something else and investigate further. Might be the first signs of worn spring, extractor etc... I'm not rich by any stretch but a j-frame is cheap insurance for these types of situations.
Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2

 

[VA27]

NOTHING is 100%. There are so many things that have to go right for a semiauto to function, that I'm impressed if it makes it through one mag full.

A previously reliable gun failed for a reason. Find the reason and correct it.

A gun that can make it through three mags full from a clean and properly lubed start is good to go.

 

[moxie]

Depends on the malfunction.

 

[AlphaVictorTango]

True, nothing is 100%, but I think 99.8% should be attainable with a carry gun. One malfunction on something I carry would be enough for me to lose confidence in it. At least until I got a couple hundred failure free rounds through it again.

Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2

 

[ku4hx]

No mechanical device is absolutely perfect and I accepted that fact many years ago. Same thing can be said for living, breathing things too.

Every gun I've ever owned had some sort of malfunction at one time or another ... that's just the nature of things. Some had more problems than others.

I tend to adhere to the concept of MTBF: Mean Time Between Failures. Guns my wife and I have in protection rotation are those with the longest MTBFs in our estimation. It's all a c-rap shoot anyway and the best you can do is try and slant the odds in your favor by sticking with what works best with your guns.

But to answer your question directly, no. I don't restart any kind of count.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

For me, a stoppage has to occur frequently and be of the same type.

I'll routinely clear the first stoppage using immediate actions. After that, if within three magazines I experience a second stoppage then I'll stop, investigate and inspect my firearm. If I find nothing out of the ordinary then I'll set aside the magazine involved and drive-on. If I experience a third stoppage shortly thereafter then I'll get concerned.

A pistol is a machine and is bound to hiccup every now and then. But when the hiccups happen frequently and are consistently of the same kind of stoppage then it's time to start troubleshooting because something's not right.

 

[Fiv3r]

Like others have said, it depends on the malfunction and the frequency. I'm not a Glock fanboy, but I'm a fan of the reliability I have had with the pistols of theirs that I have owned. If my 26 has a feeding issue after 8 magazines, I'm not apt to lose a lot of trust in it. It's never had any issues, but even something like that I train for malfunction drills. A tap and rack should fix that.

I've got a compact .45 that I love. It's so dead on accurate. However, I've had to send it back to the manufacturer 2 times now. The last time was that it was locking up tight 3/4 of the way open. I would have to CAREFULLY push the slide forward enough to wiggle the pin out of place so that I could clear the jammed live round. It's supposedly fixed, but it's going to take a good 300-500 of FLAWLESS firing multiple brands of ammo before I trust it enough to carry it. Anything that takes me out of the fight for that long has to earn my trust again.

Basically, if it'll shoot a couple boxes of ammo without needing a "break in", I'll carry it. I hate to admit it, but striker fired guns just tend to be more reliable for me even if I don't shoot them the best. My "go-to" guns are a 9mm, a .40, and a single action .357.

 

[Dr_B]

Every gun I have carried for a CCW has had a malfunction. Semiautos: failures to feed on occasion even in the best guns. Usually the magazine is to blame or the reloaded ammo. Revolvers: bullets can become unseated or the shooter can double-clutch the trigger.

I will say, though, that I have never experienced a failure in my carry guns with factory loaded hollow point ammunition. But a gun is a machine and machines have failure, they wear out, and they break. Practice.

 

[Hanzo581]

One problem is an anomaly, several are a pattern. One problem, or even two wouldn't make me lose confidence in a firearm, but more than that sure. If it is ever bad enough where I had to send it back to the manufacturer I'd sell it after it got "fixed".

 

[bdickens]

I have a Glock.

This is not an issue that concerns me.

 

[ATLDave]

This is not what "proofing" or "proof testing" a firearm means. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_test

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Unless a gun is an absolute Jam-o-Matic, I don't give a malfunction a thought. Part of my biannual training has always included malfunction drills.

 

[30 dirty 30's]

No, find the problem and go from there.
Just recently, my Kimber began experiencing a mid-life crisis. In other words, the original factory magazine that came with it developed a droopy spring/follower and would not fully lift the cartridge up. Caused a few nose-dives and stopped the feeding, especially with hollowpoints.
I found it a new girlfriend, i.e. a new mag,
And now it doesn't even need testosterone pills.
And yes, I have multiple magazines, some Kimber, some not. Gun runs flawlessly with the other magazines, and I have total confidence in it. I just shot a match with it this weekend with no problems.
90% of feeding problems in any semi-auto are mag related, so that's why I always carry 2 or 3 when I'm carrying a semi auto for concealed carry or even hunting.

 

[beatledog7]

For most handguns in the hands of most of owners, there is a far greater chance on any trigger pull that the shot will miss its mark than that it will missfire or malfunction.

I have never had a malfunction in any revolver, but I don't have a semi-auto that has never had one. Does that mean I won't carry the latter? Of course it doesn't.

It is generally said that most semi-auto malfunctions can be traced to the magazine or to the round itself. A single hiccup that can't be intentionally repeated or traced to a cause is nothing more than a fluke.

Given that, it makes far more sense to drop an offending cartridge configuration or magazine from one's carry package than to start mistrusting the gun itself.

 

[MikeJackmin]

There's a typical pattern for most malfunctions.

New guns tend to be fussy for the first fifty or one hundred rounds, then they settle down. After an extended period of time, parts starts to show signs of normal wear - springs weaken, extractors get worn, pins can work loose, and so on.

When you see that you've entered into this second phase, give the gun a careful look and replace any suspect parts (the magazine and recoil springs are usually the first thing I'd replace). If it behaves after that, then you're good until the next part wears out.

This is not a sign of any problem whatsoever, it's just normal maintenance.

The key here is that when parts begin to wear out, they will cause occasional problems at first, and then more consistent problems later on. (This is distinct from a part breaking, which will usually cause lots of problems right away). If you catch a worn part early, your gun remains reliable. If you overlook the early signs and catch it late, then it can surprise you in an unhappy way.

So, that's my round-about way of saying, you probably just received a good and normal sign that some attention is needed. Address the issue and all is well.

 

[Jim K]

AVT wrote: "One malfunction on something I carry would be enough for me to lose confidence..."

Or maybe lose something other than confidence. Nice scholarly discussions on MTBF and failure rates are fine with no one shooting at you, but I don't like the idea of dying because someone thinks I need to accept a certain failure rate.

Jim

 

[GLOOB]

Entirely depends on what caused the failure. If you want to completely trust the gun, again, it would be a tremendous boost to your peace of mind if you knew what caused it. To start with, you ought to pay attention to whether it's a failure to feed, fire, eject, or extract. And if possible, save the case or cartridge for clues. It might have been nothing more than a dirty gun or an ammo problem. But if you don't pay attention to the details, you can't know.

 

[Schwing]

My line is 1k. It has to get at least 1k with NO failures when I first buy it before I will carry it. After that I take a different approach. After that first 1k, if it is a simple FTF, I don't fret too much. I clean it good and put a couple of mags through it to make sure it doesn't repeat the problem. If it is a mechanical failure (broken trigger spring etc), I go back to zero. 1K seems like a lot but I have only ever purchased 1 carry gun that didn't make it to 1k the first time around.

 

[BSA1]

I also reject MTBF idea. It's my or a loved ones life on the line I expect, no demand the gun go bang every time I pull the trigger. Gee I needed the gun it didn't fire but that's ok as the MTBF is 1,000 rounds and that was round 999.

My personal standard for semi-autos is 500 rounds trouble free. I first run 500 rounds of FMJ'S to establish it's reliability before progressing to the type of cartridge. Until I can run 500 rounds of my next choice through it without trouble I only carry it with Ball ammo.

Unless I can directly determine the cause of the problem, with the ammo, magazine or shooter error, then I restart the count. I also do the same thing if I make any mechanical changes to the gun.

Revolvers are much easier to establish their reliability. 200 rounds are good to go since they are not affected by bullet style and have a much wider power range.

So to the point of the O.P.s question 200 rounds is hardly even getting started.

 

[Slamfire]

All military specifications have a mean time between failure. For firearms it is often a mean rounds between failure.

Today's firearms are a whole lot more reliable than the 1st generation semi autos of 1890's-1910. But, they will have malfunctions. You have got to accept this and learn how to clear them when they happen.

You can reduce them with good ammunition, good magazines, clean and well lubricated guns.

 

[moxie]

500 rounds of premium SD ammo these days, if you can find it, costs a pretty penny, often a dollar a round or more. I personally don't think it takes that many rounds to ascertain reliability of an auto. But everyone needs to draw their own line. A failure caused by a bad mag certainly won't cause me to go back to 0. Six or so 100% mags full is enough for me. With a carry gun, I dedicate three mags to carry only. Run each one through with SD ammo a few times. If no problems then GTG. Of course I do this after running a few hundred rounds of "cheap" ball through it

I also think, personally, that 200 rounds is more than needed to ascertain reliability of a revolver. 50 rounds without a hitch and I'm satisfied.

As slamfire noted, keep it clean and lubed. Watch mags like a hawk. Keep them clean too. This business of running guns for many hundreds of rounds without cleaning/lubing is not good. You are taking your expensive gun lube and turning it into very effective lapping compound. If you're taking a course where you shoot all day, at least clean and lube at the lunch break.

 

[ATLDave]

Anyone who thinks that they have a mechanical device which cannot fail is living in a fantasy.

 

[BSA1]

This business of running guns for many hundreds of rounds without cleaning/lubing is not good.

Really?

How do you truly determine the reliability of your firearm unless you shoot more than a few magazines through it without cleaning?

I did not mention that part of my 500 round initial test is not cleaning the gun for the entire 500 round test without a failure other than due to ammo, magazine or shooter err.

Obviously some, many posters, have never been on a Police Qualification range. A agency I worked for we qualified with range guns. This meant the revolvers, shotguns, semi-auto-automatic handguns and rifles were shot hundreds of rounds by many different shooters without cleaning and oiling all day.

Guess what? They functioned 100% all day.

For those that do not reload running 500 or 1,000 rounds of factory ammo before carrying a gun for SD is no small cost....

But....

Then...

So is hospital and medical bills, lost wages for being off work while recovering from injuries or the cost of your funeral, financial and your wife and children growing up without a husband and father.

It's up to every individual to determine how much quality and reliability their life is worth.