Kimber woes...

[bountyhunter]

On one hand, maybe someone should speak to Kimber's upper management about Dennis.

Maybe he saw that Seinfeld episode about the Soup Nazi and thought that people would be standing in line to buy guns if he just insulted them enough.

"What did you say? NO KIMBER FOR YOU!!!!!!!!"


FWIW, Teddy Jacobsen uses the same business model for his gunsmithing and he's still making a living.

If you read the Dilbert comic strip, you remember when Dogbert set up his customer service line and answered each call with:

"Hello, how may I disconnect you?"

There's a lot of that in this world.

 

[johnnie]

Kimber

I have been thinking about buying a Kimber 45 - with all the talk and service problems I have decided to look elsewhere - not a glock - maybe a springfield.
Surely by now the management would understand the problem and look into the service problem. A bad employee can ruin a business faster than most anything.
Enjoy reading about others problems and sucesses - keep up the good work

 

[pinetree64]

When I bought my Kimber I ran in several problems. Two trips to Kimber and they were resolved. The more I shoot it, the better it gets. Though I really like this gun now, I'd be hard pressed to recommend Kimber. I recently bought a $399 Springfield Milspec WWII edition and have had no problems with it at all.

tjg

 

[denfoote]

This little Saree is precisely the reason why I bought the Springfield!!
Oh, and about $300 less for a better gun and no headaches... and no "Dennis" either!!

 

[Bravo11]

Before going into the mechanics of the pistol I would suggest a couple of things. First, I don't know how much you've shot a 1911 but I heard that 'limp wristing' can give FTF FTE problems and I've seen people handle my 45 and the thing having failing problems then I shoot it and it performs fine. Also, my 1911 loves lube. I apply a light coat of MILTEC-1 grease to the slide and oil the internals real well with CLP.
Might be something to try before gutting it.

 

[larryw]

bountyhunter, I've had many dealings with Teddy through five guns and found him to be extremely competent, polite and honest. His wife is also great to work with (status, etc.). There's a big difference between being a jerk and having strong opinions.

Teddy's the one who fixed my Springfield TRP after a couple futile trips back to SA to get it to feed ball ammo. SA's just like Kimber in that regard, they're just fine the first time out, but woe to the lowly customer who has the audacity to question the quality of the work "performed". Customer hostility factor increases in direct proportion to the number of repeat visits required to fix the gun: intent isn't to resolve the problem, just get the customer to leave them alone. Teddy quickly got the TRP 100%, but by then I was so disgusted with it that it just sat in the safe. Finally sold it and used the funds to help buy a Valtro.

Student, based on my experience under similar circumstances, you may be better off spending a little money to have a reputable smith fix the gun before you start really hating that chunk or steel (or aluminum). Good luck!

 

[Safety First]

This thread is one of the reasons I appreciate this forum. All this time I have been thinking Kimber had the highest quality 1911. I have never owned one but have been thinking that down the road (considerably down the road) I would buy a .45 1911 for the "House-gun". My next purchase is a Bersa Thunder and then probably a pocket-rocket P3at, so it will be a little time before the 1911 purchase is done. But it seems that the vast majority seem to like Springfield for its value and reliability so when the time comes I will be looking at Springfield to scratch that itch.

 

[JohnBT]

I don't think a few responses on a thread constitute a "vast majority." After all, Kimber sells waaaaay more guns than Springfield according to the government reports. OTOH, I don't see anyone claiming either maker is the best.

My '99 Gold Match is up to approx. 15k rounds with no problems. Well, I did lose a nut on the adjustable sight and they sent me a new one. A new sight, not just the nut.

Get what you like.

John

 

[Majic]

Just for the record not all Kimbers fall in that class. I have a pre-II Custom Royal and a SLE that hasn't had any real problems. The SLE has yet to hiccup from the day it came out the box. Jacketed and cast bullets have been down the barrel with no malfunctions.

 

[wardog]

I have 1 Kimber and 1 Springfield. The Kimber has been perfect, although I don't have as many rounds through it as my Springfield. The Springfield has been almost perfect.

I did buy another Springfield that I couldn't get to work at all. It was a V-10 Ultra Compact. It would fail to go fully into battery. Several trips to a gunsmith still did not fix it. Sold it to someone who thought he could fix it.

 

[swingset]

I have a Kimber Target .22 that is in Yonkers for the 2nd time since new (When it didn't run at all from the get-go). Kimber took it back, kept it for 3 days and sent it back to me "fixed"....and it was still as non-functional as when I sent it to them.

Nothing like spending Kimber money and getting Jennings quality. Shall not buy another Kimber, ever.

There are good Kimbers, but I have learned not to ignore bad product and service, for they often repeat themselves.

 

[Rob96]

Why am I not surprised by your experience The ONLY reason Kimber sells so many units is that they have the best advertising campaign going. You get all of these people that soak up everything the gun rags preach and advertise and they become hypnotised. From what I hear Kimber was the 1911 when they first came on the scene, but have since degraded in quality. I know, my brother experienced it twice. Once with a Series I Pro Carry and another with an almost $1000 Pro CDP II. Both were utter crap. Do yourself a huge favor and save yourself the grief and aggravation and trade it in on a Colt.

 

[denfoote]

I don't think a few responses on a thread constitute a "vast majority." After all, Kimber sells waaaaay more guns than Springfield according to the government reports. OTOH, I don't see anyone claiming either maker is the best.

My '99 Gold Match is up to approx. 15k rounds with no problems. Well, I did lose a nut on the adjustable sight and they sent me a new one. A new sight, not just the nut.

I'm a novice at the 1911 game.
Recently, I had cause to examine the claims of both Kimber and Springfirld.
I was in the market for a "high end" production 1911 pistol.
I evaluated the claims of both manufacturers, talked to my family gunsmith, searched the posts on both the leading companies, and chose Springfield.
One of the overriding factors, not including the negative reports of competing customer service, was the percentage of so-called "MIM" parts that were used in the manufacture of the guns. I happen to be an electronic technician by degree and a mechanical engineer by interest. The MIM process, in my opinion, produces inferior parts. Both structurally
and by quality assurance. Again, I chose the Springfield!!!!

 

[Berg01]

My NIB non-working Kimber went back a few times until I decided to take it to a local smith, ultimately cheaper and more reliable than keep sending it to NY. Won't buy another Kimber.

Absolutely dead-nuts on advice here! Here in my neck of the woods (Bucks County, PA), the local gunsmith is Evolution Gunworks in Doylestown, PA. This is the place for any work to be done to a 1911!. If I had a grand tied up in a Kimber, I'd want it fixed right, not fast; it seems like Kimber just churns guns in and out of their Custom Shop. You will have to wait upwards of three months for service at EGW; they have had a gun of mine for that timeframe. But it is worth the wait, as the gun will flat out work when they are done with it! A guy I shoot with had a Springer Loaded that wouldn't feed right; after a round trip to Springfield to no avail, he sent it to EGW, and after they did their "reliability tune", the gun ran like a swiss watch! G. Smith & Co. are excellent people to do business with, and they are fully deserving of the accolaides their customers give them.

 

[Werewolf]

I had the same problem with my first Kimber. On the advice of someone more knowlegable than myself, I removed the extractor and gently (but firmly) flexed it a couple of times. After that, it ran through the next 500 rounds without a hitch and very rarely misfed after that day.

For the longest time I wanted a Kimber too - but my mind has changed.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic here - I really want to know - what is it with you Kimber guys and your loyalty to a company that seems to have a real problem with quality (and from this thread it seems they have a customer service problem too)?

You guys with Kimbers just seem to accept that your weapon is gonna fail. My youngest daughter's boyfriend bought a Kimber. It failed right out of the box. Every 5th or so round no eject and stovepipe. I love the quote above "and very rarely misfed". VERY RARELY MISFED! AND Why should one have to pay a gunsmith to make something work that should work right out of the box. And replacing a spring after 800 rounds????? Puhleeze. And that's just the problems related about Kimber's in this thread.

Guys I've got 3 pistols and I'm here to tell ya after thousands of rounds thru them I've not experienced one malfunction - not one. Maybe I've been lucky but I don't think so.

Maybe my expectations are too high (like I expect something I pay 7 or 8 hundred bucks for to work fine and last a long time). Threads like this one that delineate numerous quality problems with Kimbers plus my daughter's boyfriends experience have convinced me that Kimber just isn't the way to go when I finally get around to buying a 1911 style 45.

This thing with Kimber is not unlike Harley Davidson. Harley's have a mystique that is unique. Years ago their quality sucked rocks too - it took the US government and some special dispensations to keep 'em in business until they got their act together. Now the Harley mystique is well deserved. I don't think Kimber's mystique is.

I suppose the old saying that a satisfied customer tells 1 person but a dissatisfied one tells 10 is probably true. Someone loyal to Kimber may wanna remind them of that because my guess is that that is costing them business. Your name will only go so far and once a rep is trashed it's hard to get back.

 

[Kruzr]

I'm not trying to be antagonistic here - I really want to know - what is it with you Kimber guys and your loyalty to a company that seems to have a real problem with quality (and from this thread it seems they have a customer service problem too)?

Maybe its the fact that the posts you read on the internet about Kimber problems and problems with Dennis only represent a very small percentage of Kimber owners. I have two Kimbers and neither has had any function problems. My adjustable sight broke on my Stainless Target when it was new but I spoke with Dennis and it was replaced overnight. That was 20K rounds ago. My other Kimber has had 6K trouble free rounds through it. I had a Springfield and had nothing but problems with the gun AND their vaunted customer service. While I've read lots about Dennis being rude to people, I've never heard he lies to people like Springfield customer service reps do. He also answers e-mail and returns calls, not like SA or even Les Baer. Of the 20 or so Kimbers I'm familiar with in my shooting circle, none have ever had a problem. I only wish I could say that about my Baers.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I'm hearing an awful lot of "forget Kimber after all of this, I'm buying Springfield."

That's an incredible mistake if you're expecting a more reliable pistol. In my group, I'm the only one that has spent the money for a Kimber. No problems and it's the perfect carry gun. Three of my friends at work have purchased Springfields. 1 full size, 1 Micro, 1 V-10, and ALL are experiencing problems. My buddy with the V-10 is so PO'd I doubt if Springfield sells to anybody in the area after he's done.

Don't expect any better from Colt, either. Though I've had no recent experience with their products, I had several failures with my Mark IV and it couldnt hit the side of a mountain in it's stock configuration. After I sunk a lot of money into it with aftermarket parts, it's the finest weapon I have. But, should I have had to spend all that money?

My Colt Delta Elite, OTOH, has been flawless from day one.

You just don't know what you're going to get. I don't write off any reputable company because of a tiny percentage of problems. A company like AMT, though............sorry, but I haven't heard of ANY flawless AMTs.

 

[lycanthrope]

I had a bunch of problems with two series II plungers breaking in my Eclipse making my gun inoperable. The first time Dennis fixed it and had it back to me within a week. The second time the back sight came off and the series II nonsense went in the trash. I also had a rear sight shear and the grip safety was not working correctly from the factory (it would let the hammer fall without being activated).

The gun would also choke on SWC ammunition.

Finally, I smoothed out the radius on the extractor (whcih I feel should be done on every 1911) and the gun will feed empty casings all day long. As long as your casings are falling 5 feet from the gun the tension from the extractor is good. In my experience, it's the number 2 thing to check on a malfunctioning 1911 (with mags being first).

Don't believe all that recoil spring crap. Worn springs can pound a gun up but don't usually cause malfunctions until they don't have enough power to chamber the next round. I currently run an 11lb spring in my 5" and have been flawless for over 5000 rounds. If I didn't run a shock buff, I'd run a 16lb. For a 4" gun I'd go for 18lb MAX.

 

[care-less]

The answer to your problem is really quite simple; well actually there are two answers. Glock and USPc45, take your pick. In all seriousness though, say what you will, nobody makes a 1911 like COLT.

 

[Ankeny]

As an IDPA and USPSA junkie deluxe, I get to see a boat load of .45 autos. In my experience just about every maker has a few lemons slip through. I had a Kimber Gold Match back before Dennis. The pistol ent back twice for reliability problems. They were so embarrassed about having to send it in twice that they checkered the front strap at 30 lpi as an apology. I shot that pistol well, but other problems arose so I sold it and swore I would never buy another Kimber.

Well, I see a lot of Kimbers at matches that work just fine and a couple of world class gunsmiths told me they are still the best buy for the dollar so I bought a Series II Pro Carry. I took the funky Sartz system off and threw it in the trash can, then I filed the arm down on the grip safety so the grip safety is activated with just the slightest movement. This pistol shoots like a charm and the guys who have shot it are as impressed as I am

FWIW, I have seen members of our local clubs have problems with several brands and get so mad they sold them for a fraction of what they paid and swore never to go back. Those guns include Para, Colt, Springfield, Kimber, STI Trojan, Wilson Combat, and Glock.

 

[chrisinmo]

My personal philosophy is if a pot metal part on the gun fails to function dont send it back to have it relpaced with another poorly made pot metal part.

I recently bought a Springfield Mil Spec Ultra Compact and one of the first things I did after shooting to check reliability was have all the trigger components and safties replaced with high quality aftermarket parts. When I was at the smith another customer who I later found out was a cop said "it is a shame to have to put all that additional money into a new gun". He said somethingabout Kimber. I told him I would be doing the same thing with a kimber but that their factory custom features would restrict my choices of what I wanted done and cost me more up front for parts that would end up in the trash bin in short order anyway. I told him the choice I made was deliberate and the choice to have the parts replacedwas in teh plans when the gun was purchased.

It is frustrating to get a gun that does not work right like it should and this being an external extractor is a little different but if the pot metal part on a gun gives you problems chances are the new pot metal piece the factory replaces it with will eventually have problems as well.

 

[Waitone]

I am a Kimber customer. I own a Target Classic SS. The ONLY performance issue I had was after flawless performance it developed the annoying habit of 2 hammer drops on one trigger pull. One of my minds said, "Interesting." The other mind said, "Get is fixed goober." Called Kimber and it was back in my hands repaired in 3 days, elapse time. I have no prob with Kimber service based on my experience.

I am also a marketing professional. I do not work in the gun industry <sigh> but I do know the gig of product and corporate positioning (among other issues). If I was Kimber's VP of marketing I'd be livid at reading this thread. Not because of the negative comments but because so many of the negative comments are related to the performance on one individual in contact with the bill paying customer. A consistently surly non-customer friendly personality can render valueless hundreds of thousands of dollars of promotional expenditures. Yes, kimber does have a fairly sophisticated position campaign, but it is based on a lot of hard work in the past. Any campaign based on BS is immediately detectable. What takes time to destroy a company's reputation is a period of outstanding performance followed by a positioning campaign pointing to that outstanding performance then torpedo'd by gun nazi.

Does anyone know if Kimbers marketing gurus lurk THR?

If not, has anyone with a beef emailed Kimber's marketing gurus?

 

[1911Tuner]

Just a thought...

Remove the slide...Remove the barrel from the slide. Slip a round
under the extractor hook and check to see if the hook is bottoming out in the extractor groove of the case. If it is, it will bind the case up between the hook and the nose of the ejector and cause the jam that you may
be having. If the hook is diggin in to the groove, it will also cause a
failure to go to battery. Double whammy.

If the empty case is angled sideways with the mouth out of the port, but the rim is still nailed to the breechface, I betcha that's your bug. Seen
that happen a few times when a guy "tuned" his extractor with a file,
and cut the wall deeper, making the hook waaay too long.

If that's what's happening, the cure is to stone the hook to shorten it,
but since I don't know if Kimber uses fully hardened external extractors
or case-hardened pot met..er, uh...cold-rolled steel, it may be futile.
Case hardening goes about .010-.012 deep at best. Cut through it
to soft steel, it'll wear fast.

On the recoil spring...if the pistol is short-stroking, the case isn't
smacking the ejector hard enough to kick it clear of the port, and will
cause this too. If all is well with the ramp. throat, and the tension
on the extractor, it should feed with a lighter spring anyway.

Hope this nails it...Got sneakin' suspicion it's somethin' simple. Usually
is with a 1911 pistol.

Tuner

 

[jetman]

I too had a couple of wonderful heart to heart conversations with Dennis from Kimber with both an Ultra Carry Compact and Gold Match I had some troubles with.

After that lovely experience, I've sold them both for Wilson Combats

they have great customer service

 

[Rob96]

New to the List gentleman, but long time 1911 shooter. Just got back from a week at GUNSITE. Private class, all Pistol. My new Kimber Pro Carry II was not up to the task. The pistol had 300 rds through it before goining to GUNSITE, in these 300 rds it would never go into full battery about every 4-5 rd. When I called Kimber, I got to talk to Anne. Her exact response to my problem was " this pistol design has been around since 1902, its normal to have 5-6 malfunctions every 100rds. If you are looking for reliability buy a Glock" This about took my breath away. I could not believe that a Kimber employee much less anyone that knows anything about the 1911 would say such a thing. I tried to get Dennis at the Proshop but I could never get past Anne. So now here I am at GUNSITE on day one....& by the 5th round same story, wont go into battery. SO long story short..my other 3 buddies are firing Kimbers too & guess what same thing. Battery & ejection issues seemed to be the disease. Yes we rotated different types of Mags...etc. Due to all of us having the same type issues Colonel Young arranged a conference call with Kimber, but Kimber was a "no show" I have talked with my buddies out at MCSOCOM Det 1 & they have had some problems with their Kimbers too... 30 out of 100 to be exact. What I woud like from this list is some feedback on Kimbers customer support. Frankly it sucks. To have an $800 pistol that is totally unreliable on a range much less a gunfight is not acceptable. If anyone has some GOOD imput on this I would greatly appreciate it.

Another satisfied Kimber customer over at the Kimber section of the 1911 forum.