Kimber woes...

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Anne

called Kimber, I got to talk to Anne. Her exact response to my problem was " this pistol design has been around since 1902, its normal to have 5-6 malfunctions every 100rds.

*coffcoffbullsh*itcoff*

We need to have a word with Anne...or whoever hired her.:rolleyes:
 
I have three Kimbers. The first one is a stainless Gold Match circa 1998. I had problems with it feeding my reloads, until I discovered I didn't have enough crimp on them. After that, no problems. I had the occasional failure to lock back on an empty mag, until I started playing with the follower on the magazine. It now has about 14K rounds through it, and I can't remember the last time it malfunctioned.

Second one is a Pro Carry, circa 2000. I don't know how many rounds I have through it, but the notch on the slide stop got chewed up a bit. Tried a Wilson slide stop, but it didn't work properly, so I got another from Kimber and everything has been fine since. I've since switched to Wilson mags, which really helps.

The third one is an Eclipse Target that I got two weeks ago and haven't had the time to shoot it. :( This will be my first series II pistol, so it will be interesting to see what happens.

I agree that these problems shouldn't happen but, compared to my Harley, these are very very minor problems.
 
I have a Kimber TLE II and bought in NIB the finish on the slide had a brown tint to it. The frame was OK but did not match the slide I figured paying 700.00 for a gun should look good. I sent it back to Kimber and got it back in 2 days could not belive it. So it looked good but after I shot it and the sights were no longer on target. And when I wiped the outside of the gun the finish was coming off the slide guess they must of spray painted it Boy was I mad. And yes when I called Kimber Dennis had a attitude also. So no more kimbers for me. I just bought a Springfield WWII and it shot just as good if not better than my kimber and was 350.00 less. :cuss:
 
While one can expect the occasional lemon from any mfgr one would hope that the pricier offerings from the "brand names" would have greater reliability out of the box commensurate with their price. My latest .45 is a Rock Island Armory Milspec ($299 dealer) and so far with over 500rds through it (everything from Wolf to Federal 200gr +P EFMJ) it's functioned flawlessly except for a single FTF when group testing from a benchrest (I may have limpwristed that shot). The only real complaint I've heard from a RIA owner to date concerned a slightly undersized chamber which was replaced under warranty. This design has been around for nearly a century, plenty of time to learn what produces a reliable firearm and what produces an expensive paperweight. If an inexpensive RIA .45 can "get it right" by sticking to JMB's original design then why the recurring problems with some of the pricier brand names?
Tomac
 
Sorry to hear about your issues with Kimber. If Kimber doesn't fix your problem to your satisfaction then I would have a good gunsmith work it over properly. Yes, it might cost a little more but at least it will be reliable and you won't have to worrry about it. I would doubt that Kimber would just replace the gun but they should be able to fix it so that it works.

I would avoid anything Kimber nowadays especially with their Series 2 junk and even more so their sub 5" guns. Yea, yea, I know that some just love theirs and it's been 100% reliable but in general Kimber started out a dream gun and has gone down the drain along with their customer "care."

Stick with a Colt or a Springfield these days.
 
I think good customer service is a big plus in buying a firearm. The way kimber's customer service is heading I beleave I have seen my last kimber.
 
I do not understand. If you buy a gun and it does not work why would you pay someone to work on it? There has to be main offfice oversight on service in a company the size of Kimber. If their warrantee shop fills up with inoperable guns someone will pay attention and fix it. If you take it to someone else and have it fixed they will continue to sell junk. I think someone needs to climb the corporate ladder to someone in a responsible position.

I have this ring here I will sell,,, just wear it on your shooting hand and when you shoot you will automatically hit the target every time, no need to aim or anything,,, anyone interested? If you have warrantee needs on it you will have to go to Helen Waite. :)
 
I sent the Kimber back. Or at least I think so, lol! I told my local dealer from which I bought the gun to take care of it and deal with Kimber themselves. I figured that as a paying customer I didnt deserve to be talked to that way and I would rather not risk it again. My dealer was very nice and agreed to go to bat for me. So as far as I know it has been sent off.

With any luck it will come back functioning. I will take the advice of some of the folks on here and try a different spring. If that fails and the gun still gives me problems I will just send it back to Kimber again. The next 1911 I buy will be a fullsize. I will most likely send it off to the most famous gunsmith I can find. Two years (and a wad of cash) later, I should have myself a good gun.

Thanks for all the feedback and advice!

Student
 
Why?

You ask?

I do not understand. If you buy a gun and it does not work why would you pay someone to work on it?

Several reasons, not the least of which is that sometimes the warranty repair station for (name your brand) doesn't get it fixed on the first attempt. They'll figure the most likely cause and address that issue, test-fire a few rounds, and ship it back. Sometimes the turnaround on that no-fix "fix" is several weeks. The local smith, if he is good, is more likely to return the pistol ready to roll. When I was workin' the trade, there were several instances of correcting issues on guns that had been back and forth
for warranty repairs 2 or 3 times with no results. 7 times out of ten, the fix was something simple.

Some shooters just don't trust the carriers with their prized sidearm. They get "lost" sometimes, and are never found. Have to wonder if it's all acidental. Staunch antis who discover a gun in a package may consider the
package a target of opportunity...Strike a blow for the ol' cause...

SOmetimes a man has a real, pressing NEED for hsi pistol, and can't
afford to buy one to carry while the problem child is in transit for X
number of days/weeks. When I knew that was the case, THAT pistol
got priority.

Cheers!
Tuner
 
Well Tuner I am not surprised that you gave special attention to those cases where the fella may not have had a backup defense pistol. You care whether or not the guy has a pressing need. I would be willing to wager that most manufacturer repair shops couldnt care less.

I know I am going to get flamed for this (even though I am almost sure it has been said). I think it would be a good idea for companies like Colt and Kimber to move operations to the South (or out West maybe).

I am not saying that the folks they have now arent extremely skilled, but think about it this way: Why would a gun manufacturer stay in a state that is anti-gun? New York is a prime example. I would imagine they would be a lot more welcome in say, Alabama or South Carolina. Those states would appreciate the business.

I am no expert when it comes to running a business. I am not an expert when it comes to customer service either. But, if I were an executive of one of these companies I would move South or West. I would go to a state that wanted us there; who wasnt ashamed of us. I would also go to a state that I was sure wasnt going to ban handguns in the foreseeable future. But most of all, I would go to a state where I could hire an extra gunsmith or two because they are willing to work for less (because of a lower standard of living) and thereby reduce the work load on the folks I already have. Maybe then once the company is properly staffed (and lower stressed) they will have time to give their customers better service. Maybe they would even find the time to care.

Just my two cents.

Student
 
I agree - let those states start losing more jobs than they have already - and see how fast the anti-gun people get re elected. I have a 500 acre ranch in SE Okla that would make a large manufactorer proud to be on. There are even people down here that have the confederate flags on there trucks.
 
The Student makes a Point

He said:
I know I am going to get flamed for this (even though I am almost sure it has been said). I think it would be a good idea for companies like Colt and Kimber to move operations to the South (or out West maybe).

You just nailed something that has been the scourge of the latter part of the twentieth century, and it all boils down to money...or rather the
cost of production. There's also a little New Age stirred into the soup
at work too. There just isn't the same sense of pride in one's work as
was present in times past.

Building a good pistol requires a certain amount of "smithing"..even
on an assembly line. Training people to do that for a fair wage takes
not only time and money...it takes dedication of the trainee and the
willingness to work for the wage. Tough to arrange in an age where it
takes two incomes to support a family with 2.3 kids. Easy for a good
man to be lured to another job that pays a dollar more an hour.

It takes time to put one together properly. that equates to lower outout.
Money again. Last, but not least...A pistol that is even semi-hand fitted is going to be expensive. Witness the higher-end production guns from folks
like Baer and Wilson...The average workin' stiff either can't afford one like that, or he can't justify it when the kids are fast headed to college age.

It's a mess, and there just doesn't seem to be any set answer...except
to learn to tune the pistol yourself. Most problems are simple, and not
beyond the abilities of the average tinkerer. It takes a working knowledge
of the gun, common sense...and patience.

Good points Student.
Tuner
 
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Tuner,

As usual, you offer great advice and help. I appreciate your willingness to take the time to help the folks on these forums. Wish you were my neighbor.

Steve
 
Guys that go from Kimber to Springfield... Unfortunately, the Springfields are full of MIM parts, too. My favorite of the stock, production pistols are Colts. Period. I've had a few assembly problems with Colts, too, but I feel they are better made, using better quality parts.

I view the Kimbers and Springfields only as bases for a custom gun. Slide and frame kits, if you will. To be completely gutted and built up by a reputable smith. That's why I don't buy them. (Well, the Springfield Professional Model from the Custom Shop is a WHOLE 'nother animal. It's ready for the street as-is.) I do have two series one Kimbers from several years ago that I intend to have completely rebuilt.

To me, the pistols that are ready to go are, Wilson Combat CQBs, Springfield Professionals, Ed Browns and Colts. (Of course the Colts are a production gun and much cheaper, but they work and work and work.)

Other than these, it would have to be built by a reliable smith. Maybe it's because I view 1911s differently than other pistols. to me 1911s are an EXPENSIVE GUN. For one to work right, it does cost some money, unless it's a Colt. With the other production guns, it's a roll of the dice...

I know that finances dictate what someone is able to buy and a $2000 1911 is not always feasible. It just seems that a lot of times, a $700 1911 is not feasible, either (if you want it to run). (Unless it's a Colt.)

If I could only buy a Kimber or production Springfield, I'd buy a Colt or Glock or Sig or BHP or HK... At least they always work at the $700 and under price point.

Don't barbecue me - these are MY opinions and experiences. Yours may differ.

Steve
 
SteveW13


Thats not true about only Colts being ready to go. Because my Springfield WWII has never jammed and shoots just as good if not better than the Kimber TLE I use to have. :D
 
My colt 1991a1 had a mim extractor. My Springfield 1911a1 GI series shot fantastic out of the box, plus fit and finish is outstanding with a titanium firing pin. By the way the 1991a1 was so loose it actually rattled when you shook the gun.
 
In industry these days, companies don't staff up to meet new contract awards, they use existing staff to fulfill and then staff up utilizing the profits from the "done deals". Kimber has recently won some substantial contracts to supply arms to some LEO agencies, ergo their staff has been focused predominantly on providing extra TLC for those pistols shipped to the contract. This creates a cycle in which the end consumer, for the duration of contract fulfillment, is getting short shrift in both product quality and service responsiveness. Now that Kimber has grown, then can financially weather these "bumps in the road" with little impact to their bottom line. Once their growth model levels out, they will pay more attention to the civvie market, but for now are relying on their customer service department to effectively stall until they can afford to staff up once the contracts are paid and wait for the next contract.

It's an ugly cycle, but one very prevalent in modern industry. Oh and one clarification to my earlier statement regarding the staffing up. There are, in any industry, skilled and unskilled labor. It's easy to staff up unskilled labor (shipping clerks, order fulfillment, etc.) and difficult, especially in the firearms industry, to staff up skilled labor (gunsmiths). In the latter, most are probably going to have to be trained or apprenticed to existing staff, increasing the burden on them, and diminishing their time available to do a proper job on mass market product. Once modest training is done, these new smiths are probably those who are providing fulfillment of mass market hardware while the skilled gunsmiths are focusing most of their efforts on contract hardware.

In essence, the QA problems you're seeing are indicative of a growing company in a highly competitive market. It's hugely unfair to the end consumer of the mass market product, but a viable business model for protecting profit margins. Just ask Microsoft.
 
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Braveheart.jpg

"SPRRIIIIIINNNNGFIEEEELLLD!!!!"
 
By the way the 1991a1 was so loose it actually rattled when you shook the gun.

On my NRM 1991A1 you can hear a little bit of rattle from the slight looseness in the slide to frame fit. But remember the Colt is made to Ordnance spec, the way it was designed. Despite the loose fit my Colt is accurate. Accuracy is the result of good barrel to slide fit, and it is 100% reliable. None of this " Shoot 500 rounds thru it first" crap. I will take accurate and reliable over tight and failure to this and that any day.
 
ruger357,

Colt did try MIM extractors for a while, but discovered the problems associated with them and went back to barstock. I had two of the first reissue 70 series Colts that had MIM extractors and had Colt replace them. My NRM 80s and the last 70 series reissue had the barstock extractors.

Steve.
 
Kimber has recently won some substantial contracts to supply arms to some LEO agencies, ergo their staff has been focused predominantly on providing extra TLC for those pistols shipped to the contract.

Pulled a page from the S&W operations manual did they?

I suppose later they'll tell us that they profit mostly from LEO contracts and really don't need civilian sales...



Once their growth model levels out, they will pay more attention to the civvie market,...

Pardon me if I take this with a huge grain of salt and wait to see if this actually happens.
 
Rob96,
My 1991 was so loose the dealer almost would not take it for a trade-in. I'm not knocking Colt at all. I am thinking about looking at the new rollmarks after the holidays. I am just saying the one I did buy didn't make me too much of a fan,while the Springfield did.
 
Kimber poor QC is infamous

I had my run-ins with Dennis--on a Kimber Gold match that was a complete POS. I could fill the page with all the things that were wrong with it. It made three trips to the factory (all at my expense) before they finally gave up on it and gave me a replacement. I tried the trigger and it needed a trigger job badly, so I promptly sold that turkey.

I will never give Kimber another penny. Look at the new Sig 1911. Or, for much less the SW1911. I have a SW1911 and it has been superb. Paid $670 and it regularly outshoots $1500 customs. Feeds everything I've put into it, and the trigger breaks at 3.75lbs with no creep whatsoever. 5 shots in under 1" outside edge to outside edge at 12m.
 
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