After some AK quality time, I still prefer my M1 Carbine

[cluttonfred]

I got to spend some quality time with a 5.56mm AK variant last week, my first significant experience to the gun or the cartridge. A few observations….

• Even the worn guns and magazines that we had were rock-solid reliable.
• AK sights are just awful (why is the rear notch so narrow?) but I could still hit what I was aiming at (sihouette down to ~10-inch round targets, rapid fire, free standing, 25 meters).
• That and the reliablity did inspire confidence.
• At 8.8 lb (4.0 kg) loaded, that sucker got heavy after a while.
• That gas block and tube got awfully hot after a few magazines.

While I am new to these (relatively) modern rifles, I did a lot of M1 Garand and M1 Carbine shooting as a young man. While I can certainly see the appeal of a true assault rifle (intermediate cartridge, selective fire) for military purposes, I honestly think that a private citizen or ordinary police officer (not SWAT) would be better off with an M1 Carbine in most likely situations (home defense, civil unrest, police patrol, etc.) and ranges (under 100m and usually much less). Compared to the AK or even the AR I once fired briefly, the M1 Carbine is lighter, handier, quicker on target and quicker to recover from the previous shot.

My afternoon at the range just confirmed my wish to see someone come out with a new, lightweight carbine in the spirit of the M1 (not a replica) chambered in .30 Carbine and maybe 5.7x28mm. The classic 18-inch barrel M1 Carbine weighed 5.8 lb (2.6 kg) loaded with a 15 round magazine a sling. Using modern materials and technology, perhaps a polymer receiver with steel rails, it ought to be possible to get a new carbine with 16-inch barrel and a 10-round magazine down to 4.4 lb (2 kg) loaded. That's less than a Ruger 10/22 and exactly half the weight of the loaded AK!

Does anybody else actually prefer an M1 Carbine to a modern assault rifle?

 

[flightsimmer]

I've made my M1 Carbine my go to weapon of choice even though I've got all of the others.
It's loaded with modern Hornady hollow points.
I also mounted a Red .Dot. Sight on it.

 

[Normandy]

My M1 carbine was my go-to gun for a few years, when it was the only rifle I owned. My accuracy with it at 50 yards is about the same as with the AK-47, or the AR-15. None of mine are really decked out, so I'm talking iron sights on all of them.

A go-to rifle should fit the situation it's called on to address. The M1 carbine is really good for 125 yards or shorter, IMHO. Awesome reliability, reasonable accuracy, and portability. But if I need a 200-yard rifle, I'd (personally) opt for the AK-47 or the AK-74. Mine are in polymer stocks, so the weight isn't bad.

BTW- The AK rear sights are situation where they are because that's the farthest to the rear that provides a solid platform. I have a scope-mount-included rear cover on an AK-47, and I have to check its screws frequently, while shooting, to make sure it hasn't wiggled loose. But the side-mount AK scopes give the best performance.

 

[cluttonfred]

Thanks, guys. For home defense and police use, I don't see the range as a limiting factor, at least not in the homes I have lived in (urban, suburban or wooded rural areas) back in the USA. If I lived on the plains, maybe that would be different. I also can't imagine many situations in which typical police officers on patrol would be shooting beyond even 50 yards, let alone more than 100 yards. For me the great advantage of an M1 (or better yet a new modern carbine in .30 Carbine ) is the compact size (only marginally smaller than an AR or AK with she same length barrel) and low weight (a lot less). With a folding stock or as a new design bullpup, it would be even better.

 

[ulflyer]

A few years ago I felt like i owed it to myself to find out what all the interest in "black guns" was about. Bought a Deltonic kit and built it to my taste, including a peep sight similar to my Carbines. Found that I could shoot it way more accurately than my m1 carbines, but boy, was it LOUD. And the 223's chewed up my dirt bank like crazy. Fine weapon, but just not to my taste. Being an ole coot, I still like the feel of wood and parkerized metal. Sold the Deltonic, but now wish I'd have kept, just in case. Nevertheless, I have several carbines, lots of mags, and 3 cases of ammo. That should do me.

 

[carbine85]

The M1 Carbine used as intended and within it's limits is an excellent platform. I personally prefer shooting the M1 over the AK. I don't take my AK out very often. I shoot my M1 Carbines all the time.
I agree with you on the AK sights. The sight radius too short, hard to adjust and they just simply suck. It wasn't designed for accuracy.

 

[jmorris]

Having shot more than my fare share of 3 gun matches I have only seen one M1 carbine at a match, he didn't win. That said there are not a lot of AK's either.

 

[Tony50ae]

Never shot an AK. But I do own a replica M1 carbine made by auto ordnance. It been reliable and fairly accurate too. Love shooting it. I like my AR I just got and have been shooting that platform for years in the military. But something about that little carbine! Low recoil, light package, and the round isn't too bad for short to medium ranges.

 

[Jackal]

I'd have to say that a sight upgrade on AK's does kind of transform them. Whether its a scope, dot or peep sight, makes a world of difference.

 

[Tommygunn]

If anyone is interested in a recent development in the M1 carbine area see the following thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=771469

A new "Inland Mfg." is being introduced to the market; we discussed this back in January.

 

[jad0110]

I love my ARs and M-1 about equally. The M-1 feels really fantastic in my hands, there really is nothing else quite like it. OTH, 5.56 ammo for the AR is more affordable, more plentiful, and there are far more choices of said ammo available. Reliable mags for the AR are also cheaper.

In the end, my primary home defense long arm is my 16" AR, but I do keep a 15 round M-1 mag loaded up in the safe just in case. They can be a superb choice for home protection, and are often overlooked.

 

[phil dirt]

From the bench a decent M1 Carbine will shoot 6" or less at 200 yards, all day long.

 

[MCgunner]

The M1 Carbine is one of my favorite military rifles, mainly on looks I'll admit. But, as stated, at short ranges, it's capable, light, quick handling. I don't own one, would like to. I bought a .22LR replica a while back when I found it for $255. I had to have it because it was like the Iver Johnson I longed for when I was a kid. I'm glad I bought it, is a neat plinker and handy in the woods. They make a 9mm version, but it's kinda pricey for what it is.

I prefer my SKS's to the AKs. It's the superior ergonomics especially since I shoot lefty. I have ambidextrous safeties on both of 'em. The paratrooper carbine is a fun toy. I put a folding stock on it and a 20 round chicom fixed mag on it. But, for actual USE, I prefer my polymer rifle stocked rifle with 5 round fixed mag. It's heavier than the M1 carbine, I mean, what ain't? But, it's handy, had normal rifle ergos, and is a bit more accurate than your average AK. AND, I have less than 200 bucks wrapped up in it, bought the basic rifle for 75 bucks about 23 years ago. I have dies for these guns, but shoot a lot of cheap milsurp stuff in 'em. One nifty deal is, when you wanna shoot reloads and save your brass, just pull the gas piston out of the gun, becomes a straight pull bolt action.

Nah, I really don't have the hots for an AK or an AR. I would still love to own a REAL, honest to God M1 Carbine, though, just because I like the looks and the Lieutenant on the TV show "Combat", which I never missed an episode of as a kid, carried one. I'd probably still rely on my shotgun for home defense and my .22LR replica is more affordable to shoot, but hey, I'd still like to have an M1 Carbine just because. They're pricey enough that I likely won't soon get one, though.

 

[rondog]

All I can say is the guns next to my bed and in my truck aren't AK's or AR's, but they're .30 cal., and they're small, light and handy.....

 

[Acera]

I really like my M1 carbine, but for HD it's an M1A for me. The AR would be the next choice. The M1 carbine would be up there, but the AK would be at the bottom of the semi auto choices for me. Just don't like that gun very much.

Now one thing that I did see recently is a M1 Carbine chambered in 9mm. Picked it up and handled it for just a few minutes. It was a new gun and uses the Beretta 9mm magazines used in the military handgun. If it gets some positive reviews, might get one of those soon.

 

[Inebriated]

Has THR basically become a blog for people to say "I don't like X rifle"?

There's an abnormal amount of these threads lately.

 

[MCgunner]

Has THR basically become a blog for people to say "I don't like X rifle"?

There's an abnormal amount of these threads lately.

Just think of this thread as a "I DO like the M1 Carbine"....

 

[jmorris]

From the bench a decent M1 Carbine will shoot 6" or less at 200 yards, all day long.

Is that good or bad?

 

[Art Eatman]

"Is that good or bad?"

Yes.





(Sorry; couldn't resist. Just another character defect. )

 

[smithman 10]

M1 Carbine

The only time I fired one was in the Air Force about 45 years ago, but I thought it was great fun. They were rattly old things left over from WWII I bet. I liked it better than the M-16s we fired in basic training.

Now I've got a CMP Garand and 1903 A3. And an AR of course. But I sure wish I had bought a carbine before the CMP sold out.

Is it better than an AR? No, the AR is much more practical and versatile, ammo is easy to get. But the M1 carbine sure looks a lot cooler.

And would certainly do the trick if you needed to defend yourself and that's all you had.

 

[nathan]

Theres a new company Inland now making the carbine. They have new manufacturing techniques making it more accurate. But it cost like $900.

 

[cluttonfred]

Theres a new company Inland now making the carbine. They have new manufacturing techniques making it more accurate. But it cost like $900.

This is why I'd like to see a new design in .30 Carbine (and probably 5.7x28mm as well), perhaps something along the lines of the Kel-Tec SU-16, Ares SCR or a basic Saiga. I don't mean just chambering one of those in .30 Carbine, which negates the advantage of the smaller cartridge, I mean a modern polymer and metal gun designed around the cartridge. That certainly should not cost $900.

Personally, I'd even be happy with an internal 10-round magazine, maybe rotary, removable but intended to be loaded from polymer Swiss-style stripper clips. That would further reduce the weight of the package and a lightweight carbine with 10 in the mag and 20 or 30 more in stripper clips in a stock pouch would be a great solution.

 

[Girodin]

I honestly think that a private citizen or ordinary police officer (not SWAT) would be better off with an M1 Carbine in most likely situations (home defense, civil unrest, police patrol, etc.) and ranges (under 100m and usually much less). Compared to the AK or even the AR I once fired briefly

Well I can tell you that almost no one in a decision making position agrees with you with respect to patrol rifles. ARs are ubiquitous as patrol rifles. I would agree with those people that an AR is a significantly better choice than a M1 carbine. That's not a knock on the M1 carbine either. It is a weapon that has seen a lot of good use. In a LEO context I believe Jim Cirillo put that weapon to very good use. That said the AR is a more capable weapon with better ammo choices, infintely better and more durable magazine options, and more readily set up with useful capability adding tools such as a light and a red dot sight.

Ultimak makes a mount for the M1 carbine.

Its late so I might be overlooking something but I cannot think of any real advantage a the M1 carbine would hold over a quality AR.


As to comparing it to the AK:

Something like the following would remedy most of your gripes.

or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACcrtrFgDE8

I would prefer a well thought out AK. But I have spent a lot of time with AKs and appreciate them for what they are. Nothing wrong with personally liking something different.

 

[Pilot]

I would really like to get an M1 Carbine for range, and HD, but the prices are a bit prohibitive for what you get. Recently, I have been looking at an SBR (requires tax stamp) in .300 BLK, and think that's a good alternative. It is no cheaper than the M1, but offers the flexibility of the AR platform with a good intermediate .30 Cal round which I can reload with 5.56 brass.

 

[Deus Machina]

I'm a fan of the AK platform, but I'm not going to say it wouldn't benefit greatly from some reworking and refinement, and the M1 does what it does well.

For what it's worth, for a brief time before I had to sell it, my Saiga had a HK drum sight on a rail (I did some machining) that put it at the back of the receiver cover, and a crosshair front sight. That really improved matters.