after the fun comes the clean up

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roval

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brought 6 guns to the range.the cz shadow 2, cz p10c, cz 75 pcr,
1911 LB heavyweight monolith, sig 220 and a smith and wesson 586. wanted to see how a 38 spcl load with 158 gr and unique and a 45 acp 230 g RN load with unique will do. both were good.

i brought a big silhouette b27 target to try double taps with these guns. starting from a low ready position and shooting asap without a great sight picture, i learned that i do poorly with it at 10yrds. most but still not all body shots were on the target big as it may be. squeezing the trigger fast is a hoot but i almost always pull the second shot. double tapping the revolver frequently pulls the second shot 6 to 7 inches lower.

i haven't shot the pcr in a few years and since i was testing a couple of loads, i also tested the sights of the pcr and found i should shoot it with a regular sight picture. i previously thought it shot high. it is an accurate gun.

after shooting double taps for a while and having frequent misses I went back to shooting small at 10 yrds to settle me down.

then went to 10 inch steel gong at 25 yds for relaxing fun. i hit it fairly consistenly with the pcr as well and the sig 220 with its weird sight picture, the other guns I'm always ok with. now comes the cleanup and later further reloading. 20180905_161337-907x1612.jpg
 
Nice pistols! I haven't shot mine in a couple months now ,to dang hot outside
 
I normally shoot three revolvers and three semi-automatics per range trip. My goal is to field strip, clean, and reassemble them in ten minutes apiece (an hour total). I pretty much always make my time limit.
 
Nice handguns. I seldom take more than four combined to the range at a time. Handguns usually get a quick bore swab and field strip/wipe down. Same for bolt action rifles. Autoloaders get a little more attention. Unless I'm really feeling the zen of gun cleaning. I used to spend a lot more time at it until I realized how much time I was spending.....
 
i did shoot about 500 to 550 rds among the different calibers.

I field strip them, let the bores soak in bore cleaner and then brush the breechface. wet the gun wiith clp and wiipe down the gun and barrel with clp. grease the rails on the 1911, sig and metal czs.and oil the rails for polyframed autos.put drops of clp on the locking lugs and bushing. ( that's why i have some old rubber car floormats inside my safe)

i don't mind autos . i have a harder time with the revolvers. since i have to run a patch through each chamber and a brush since i shoot 38 spcls out of 357s.

i like it when they have an oily sheen. some like the pcr( couple of years) and the 586 don't get as much use and may be awhile before they see the range again.
 
My range is out back...very seldom do I take more than one pistol. I've got 23 handguns and normally I'm only shooting 2, current match pistol and current carry pistol. Occasionally I'll do a "show and tell" and drag a bunch of stuff out for guests, but normally it's either one of my match guns or my carry pistol.

The match pistols usually go 1000-1500 rds between cleanings. All they get between matches and practice is a wipe down. The defensive stuff gets cleaned immediately. I shoot 2 to 3 times a week, IF I cleaned after every outing that's pretty much all I'd be doing......I save the complete tear-down cleaning to bad weather days.
 
roval said:
i brought a big silhouette b27 target to try double taps with these guns. starting from a low ready position and shooting asap without a great sight picture, i learned that i do poorly with it at 10yrds. most but still not all body shots were on the target big as it may be. squeezing the trigger fast is a hoot but i almost always pull the second shot. double tapping the revolver frequently pulls the second shot 6 to 7
Click to expand...

FWIW, a lot of people get confused by the term "double tap." Except at really close ranges (maybe 5 yards or less), the people who are world-class at landing two very closely-spaced (in time) hits are not aiming once and just whacking the trigger twice. They are tracking the sights through recoil. There is aiming being done throughout. They are not firing the second shot blind. Of course, it helps a lot to develop effective recoil control so the gun isn't bouncing around so much.

Sounds like you have at least reasonable marksmanship fundamentals, as reflected by your ability to shoot small at a slower pace and to hit a further-away target. Learning to shoot fast and with some accuracy does require some specific work, and really tests things that slow-fire doesn't... such as grip strength and sight-tracking.
 
I've got a safe full of dirty guns right now. I promised myself, after returning from my last shoot in WY, that I would clean all my guns FIRST, before reloading all the brass for them. My resolve is showing signs of strain... I. Hate. Cleaning guns...
 
ATLDave said:
FWIW, a lot of people get confused by the term "double tap." Except at really close ranges (maybe 5 yards or less), the people who are world-class at landing two very closely-spaced (in time) hits are not aiming once and just whacking the trigger twice. They are tracking the sights through recoil. There is aiming being done throughout. They are not firing the second shot blind. Of course, it helps a lot to develop effective recoil control so the gun isn't bouncing around so much.

Sounds like you have at least reasonable marksmanship fundamentals, as reflected by your ability to shoot small at a slower pace and to hit a further-away target. Learning to shoot fast and with some accuracy does require some specific work, and really tests things that slow-fire doesn't... such as grip strength and sight-tracking.
Click to expand...

I learned it as the difference between a "Hammer" and "Controlled Pair" and basically the difference when each is used is a function of distance & target size (time of course) and the number of sight pictures (SP).

"Hammer" equals 2 shots, 2 sight pictures..initial SP shots (2) and back on to tgt SP.

"Controlled Pair" equals 2 shots, 3 sight pictures....Initial SP, 1 shot, 2nd SP, 2nd shot and back on to tgt SP.
 
A lot of people think that the idea is one sight picture, and try to pull the trigger "so fast that the gun doesn't move." Which is, of course, impossible. It's a bad concept. One can have a target so large/close that the "cone of dispersion" in recoil never leaves the acceptable target area, in which case continuing to point the gun at the target and whacking the trigger fast is sufficient.... but I'm not sure there's anyone who is capable of doing that at 10 yards. They're getting some kind of information back from the sights and triggering the second shot when/while those are in an acceptable state.
 
I shoot , clean ( guns & brass), reload then the cycle starts all over again.
 
ATLDave said:
A lot of people think that the idea is one sight picture, and try to pull the trigger "so fast that the gun doesn't move." Which is, of course, impossible. It's a bad concept. One can have a target so large/close that the "cone of dispersion" in recoil never leaves the acceptable target area, in which case continuing to point the gun at the target and whacking the trigger fast is sufficient.... but I'm not sure there's anyone who is capable of doing that at 10 yards. They're getting some kind of information back from the sights and triggering the second shot when/while those are in an acceptable state.
Click to expand...
i was tryng to do 2 trigger pulls as fast as i can pull them. i had one that was 2 inches apart and on the head but that was already aimed before i did the double tap with the p10c. usually it's chest to right chest 1st shot and the second lower right belly . found a cluster of 45s that was grouped 6 inches in the left lower quadrant. mind you that target was big. it's not an ipsc sized target.
.

lesson first shot to body almost always hits so less advantage to take the second shot quick. but it's fun.

it was just for kicks. you can't shoot quicker than 1 per sec in our range except for double taps.

just tried doing it like i see some of the 3 gun people do it. to see how I'll do.how far are their closer targets?
 
The gun is going to move when it goes off. How much it moves depends on the gun, the ammo, and, most of all, your recoil control. That's driven mostly by your grip. When you're firing slow-fire, all kinds of grips can be made to work, as can all kinds of grip pressure. When you're trying to minimize the amount the gun moves, grip starts to matter a ton.

If you can hold the movement to within a cone of "acceptable hits," then you can just pull the trigger as fast as you can. When the cone of movement gets larger than your size of acceptable hits, then you cannot just pull the trigger as fast as you can... you have to wait to trigger the second shot until the gun has returned to within the zone of acceptable hits. You can still fire very rapidly doing this, but it requires adding a lot of rapid visual processing to already-good fundamentals of straight-back trigger press/pull/slap/mash/whatever.

It's a shame you're limited to doubles, since longer strings (e.g., the classic 6-shot bill drill) are a really good way to experiment and understand this stuff. But there is just a ton of information about controlling recoil and seeing faster in handgun shooting, most of it derived from the competition world. As for how far the targets are for 3gun or other practical/action shooting games... that varies. That's part of the appeal. Sometimes the targets are close, sometimes they are far away. You can't shoot the same splits (time) on a 5 yard and 15 yard target... not if you're shooting the 5 yard target as aggressively as you can and you want good hits on the 15 yarder.
 
ATLDave said:
The gun is going to move when it goes off. How much it moves depends on the gun, the ammo, and, most of all, your recoil control. That's driven mostly by your grip. When you're firing slow-fire, all kinds of grips can be made to work, as can all kinds of grip pressure. When you're trying to minimize the amount the gun moves, grip starts to matter a ton.

If you can hold the movement to within a cone of "acceptable hits," then you can just pull the trigger as fast as you can. When the cone of movement gets larger than your size of acceptable hits, then you cannot just pull the trigger as fast as you can... you have to wait to trigger the second shot until the gun has returned to within the zone of acceptable hits. You can still fire very rapidly doing this, but it requires adding a lot of rapid visual processing to already-good fundamentals of straight-back trigger press/pull/slap/mash/whatever.

It's a shame you're limited to doubles, since longer strings (e.g., the classic 6-shot bill drill) are a really good way to experiment .
Click to expand...
thanks for the explanation.yeah i wish they would allow some rapid fire even if limited to 5 or 6 rounds. i will try filming myself for kicks but i already know editing it and synching 2 cameras will be a headache.
 
Wife and I to the pistol range = 6 pistols. 2x XD, 2x Tanfoglio, 1 S&W EZ 380, 1 Taurus PT92C. In other words, 2x 45acp, 2x 9mm, 2x 380.
 
I normally only take one or two guns to the range when I go. Tends to be less distracting and I get more done. It also gives me another excuse to go shooting again with something else. :)

I clean everything after I shoot, every time, no excuses. Its just part of shooting. Ive always been amazed at how many dont seem to clean and maintain their stuff. To each his own I guess.
 
I guess I all my guns are poorly maintained. I don't have a single used gun that was put up clean. Many have been stored dirty for years.
 
My father showed me his home defense pistol last year during a visit. I was astonished at how filthy it was. I'm not sure if it would even function. He thinks it will. I found it strange as everything else he owns is spotless. Go figure.
 
milemaker13 said:
I used to bring everything with to the range.. only to be confronted by all the cleaning. Nowadays i am more selective and decide on just a few to bring with.
Click to expand...

That's me... I used to bring just about the entire safe with me... and all the ammo for them. Nowadays, not so much. I also found I was rushing to shoot everything, which is stupid. Now it's 2-5 different firearms... taking my time, enjoying the scenery... a much more enjoyable range trip.

ColtPythonElite said:
A dirty gun does not mean it is not maintained....
Click to expand...

That's my story, I'm sticking to it. I don't see any reason to break down a pistol I fired 200-300 rounds through, it just doesn't make sense to me. My AR carbine, the one that sees the most use, I've probably got 3000-4000rds through it since the last cleaning; it gets some CLP on the bolt carrier, and down in the FCG... and away it goes. I rarely, if ever, have a failure related to how clean or dirty my firearms are. But, as AK says... to each his own.
 
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