After the shooting is over?

[Okiecruffler]

Kinda a follow up post to the CPR one. Let's say you've had to actually use your gun in a SD situation. The BG is down and down good, police on the way. Do you render aid to the guy you just shot? Me, I haven't come up with my answer yet. I probably would just to help myself out in any lawsuits that might follow, but I just don't know for certain.

 

[BerettaNut92]

That's a darn good question. You don't want the guy to stab you when you're trying to plug up his holes. I hope the ecnalubma gets there quick!

 

[CWL]

NO! You do not get near the downed BG. This means that you don't go to kick the gun away, check for pulse, turn him/her over, or anything. You stand close enough to the body (say 7 yards) so that you can watch for further activities by the BG, but not close ehough for the BG to make any moves to shoot, stab, kick, punch or otherwise surprise you. If BG makes any other threatening moves, you shoot him/her again.

Stand nearby and continue to cover with your weapon until LEOs and paramedics arrive, until then, you are still in danger. (There might even be another BG lurking around nearby.)

Unless you are qualified to identify the condition of a person just by looking at him, you are not out of danger from further assault. Leave it up to the police and medicos showing up to render aid.

Many people falsely think that it's over just because someone is shot. But the simple fact is that YOU DO NOT KNOW IF HE/SHE HAS ACTUALLY BEEN SHOT! How big is a bullet hole? Can you really see any bullet holes in dark clothing? Under dark conditions? Sometimes the BG is just unconscious, not hurt bad, or just playing possum. You do not know.

If you have used deadly force to defend yourself, it better be justified, so you do not owe the shot person(s) any obligation at rendering aid until you have proper LEO backup.

 

[fourdeuce82d]

"You stand close enough to the body (say 7 yards)"

Not what I was taught in the texas CHL instructor class, nor in the permit holder class I took later. We were taught to unass the area, and call the cops. Idea being, if'n you shot a goblin, his litter mates may take exception, and fire you up.

Don't know whether it's right or wrong, but that's what the standard is in Texas.

 

[CWL]

My assumption is that you did this shootin' in or near your personal property.

If it was a late night street encounter, yes, I'd haul tail outta there as well and call LEOs after I vacate the scene.

 

[Kenneth Lew]

An individual is not qualified to render aid of a gunshot wound. Whatever the individual may do may result in more complications to the injured party. Get to your mobile phone and call 911 for professional help and secondly call your lawyer.

Kenneth Lew

 

[Jake]

Good point about not being qualified to render aid. Not only that but you could technically open yourself up to another lawsuit on top of the probable one for shooting in the first place. You could do something to make the medical situation of the BG worse. Long ago and far away I was a certified EMT and that was one of dangers of stopping to help at a accident scene. Even though I was trained and certified you could leave yourself open to lawsuits by some ungrateful idiot for trying to help. Heard alot about guys getting sued for breaking ribs while doing CPR. Don't you just love modern society?

 

[50 Freak]

yeah, if he survives, he definatley will come back and sue the hell outta you. I'd just stand there (if safe to do so) and start calling my friends (all lawyers).

And keep your mouth SHUT!!!!!!!!! until you have legal representation present. Don't think you can explain everything away you'll just stick your foot in your mouth. Just say your too much in shock to answer qustions and have your attys answer all qustions.

 

[Ron_Miami]

I would want to stay close enough to try to preserve evidence.

If the BG had a weapon, it's likely to disappear if others are around.

 

[MessedUpMike]

Most Good Samaritan laws will protect you from any damage you do so long as you don't do something completely negligent (ie cauterizing a gunshot wound, tourniquet around the neck, etc ), and that you don't prevent more qualified help from being rendered. Technically an EMT would have the "Duty To Act", but I'm not sure how it would apply in such a situation. As a full time idiot I might try to stop a person I just shot from dying if I could do so in a manner that would not further endanger myself or anyone else around. I've done frantic first aid in some hairy places, it would depend on what was going on around me at the time. Military medics have done it in worse places than some of us could ever imagine.
I wouldn't be concerned about preserving evidence personally. If the scene is still hot enough for one of my targets buddies to pop up, then it's still hot enough for me to get popped, adios...



As far as CPR (I missed the thread), the old school guys used to tell you if you didn't break ribs, then your compressions weren't deep enough. I might be able to count on one hand how many time I haven't broken ribs in 13 years.....

 

[Standing Wolf]

Nope. If the low life @#$%^&! had wanted medical treatment, he'd have gone to a hospital instead of trying to kill me or cause me great bodily harm or invade my house.

 

[Sunray]

"...Do you render aid to the guy you just shot?..." Of course you do. That's what separates them from us.

 

[MeekandMild]

I don't know any right answers here, but have another pair of questions in this either/or situation:

1) If the BG is alive and he's been attacking you then he is still dangerous?

2) If the BG is dead, then he is beyond the help of CPR?




(Personally, I think I'd make tracks out of range of his return fire. If he's alive retreat is a good idea and if he's dead retreat won't hurt him any more. But I'm not a lawyer nor do I play one of TV so don't ask me for any real answers.)

 

[Majic]

One big potential problem that is over looked is the possibility of HIV or other blood diseases. That would be the major concern for me.

 

[Psssniper]

If the situation involved me having to shoot him
It wouldn't end with me giving CPR

 

[Okiecruffler]

Thing is, I'm more than qualified to render aid to a gun shot. I have a duty to act in the public as well, but I doubt if the board would hold me to it in this case. 'Course, I doubt if the board of nursing wants their members running around with pistols on their hips either (tend to be liberal types). And HIV doesn't scare me, now Hep C, that's a whole different story.

 

[El Rojo]

I think I would be in ultra paranoid mode immediately after the shooting and would probably not take the chance in administering first aid for the risk of missing another threat. No court is going to fault you for it if your shooting was justified. Morally? I don't think I have a moral obligation to try and save that person's life. If I believed that way, I wouldn't have shot them in the first place and I would have "tried to find another way". Since I chose to carry a concealed weapon, I chose to take the risk that I might have to shoot someone and they might die. They chose their actions, I chose mine.

I like the idea of finding cover. It depends on the situation if I would totally flee or not. I think you might open yourself up for fleeing the sceen of a crime if you just bail. That is why a cell phone is important. You can call the police and inform them you just shot someone, the scene is still not safe, and you are fleeing to a safer location until met by a LEO or asked to return to the area.

 

[Kamicosmos]

unass the area

I am so stealing that! Can't wait to use it around leaving time at the office.

 

[Dave P]

unass the area

Yeah, wahts that sposed to mean?

 

[erikm]

I'd say don't render medical aid, you're probably not qualified and would open yourself up to opportunistic ambulance-chasers anyway. Just make sure the goblin doesn't have weapons within reach. For the rest, guard him from several feet away.

Do remember to tell the cops that you shot the perp. While it may seem obvious that someone's been shot, cops and ambulancemen have been known to miss this. In my country a jeweler got into trouble when he shot a robber in his store. The cops missed the gunshot wound and the perp died in transport, after which the DA(equivalent) tried (and failed) to prosecute the jeweler on this. However, IIRC the jeweler was convicted of giving the perp a good kicking after he was down.

Cheers,
ErikM

 

[El Rojo]

I think the argument that someone is unqualified and opening themselves up for lawsuit because they tried to help the perp is pretty well unfounded. Since I have taken basic first aid and an emergency back country care course, I know the best way for me to treat a gun shot wound would be to apply direct pressure to the wound with something that can stop the bleeding. As long as I don't do anything more complicated than that, I am protected under good samaritan laws because I am not doing anything beyond my level of training. If you have read a bunch of books about military history, you probably know to apply direct pressure to the wound. If you watch ER on tv, you might know to apply direct pressure to the wound. If you have read this post, you know to apply direct pressure to the wound. So there is nothing valid about saying you are going to get sued for applying direct pressure to a gunshot wound. If you try to dig out the bullet with your pocket knife, get ready for the law suit.

However, if I don't have any sort of bodily fluid barrier on me (aka gloves), I doubt I am going to be in a big hurry to go stick my hands over somebody's entry or exit wound. If I just shot the person and there might be more of them around, I am probably not going to be in a hurry to go stick my gloved hands over the wound. There are plenty of good reasons not to go provide medical aid, but the whole you might get sued because you don't know how to treat a gun shot wound thing is pretty bogus. Just apply direct pressure, you are pretty much free of a suing.

 

[seeker_two]

The BG is down and down good, police on the way. Do you render aid to the guy you just shot?

No.

 

[BHPshooter]

Do you render aid to the guy you just shot?

I have wondered this as well, but my first impression is NOPE. I think Natural Selection should take its course in cases like this, but perhaps this thread, or ones like it, may change my mind.

Wes

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Why would you want to render aid to somebody you just tried kill, er, stop? If you used lethal force, it was because of a risk to you or another by the evil person who is now on the ground, right?

Some of the points have been mentioned, so I won't go into detail.

1. May be unharmed and playing possum and hoping to get you when you approach.
2. May be wounded but playing possum and hoping to get you when you approach.
3. May be was unconscious at first, but now is conscious and is no longer wishing to capitulate to you.
4. Are you skilled to treat gunshots?
5. One thing that gets some officers, good samaritans, and some medical professionals is contagious diseases. Say you shot the guy, he is down, and is bleeding. Say you manage to come in contact with his blood and end up with Hep C, Aids, or some other horrible malady. Maybe you die. Even if the other guy dies from wounds soon thereafter and then you die from his disease at some later date, you did not win the fight. He just died first is all, but you still lose even if both of you dead is actually considered a tie.

I read this in one of the gun rags and it pertains to assessments of downed aggressors. You never consider your opposition to be out of the fight or dead until their head is completely separated from their body by a distance of at least 4 feet. Even then, there is no reason to approach the body.

 

[brownie0486]

Rendering aid, if you deem the BG no longer a threat could be a precursor to being charged with your claims of self defense and your mindset with juries at the time of shooting.

"I didn't have malice in mind when I shot him, I was attempting to stop his aggression towards me that would have culminated in my being seriously injured/mamed/killed if I had not done so in my mind. As soon as I determined as best I could that he was no longer a threat, I attempted to render as much aid as I could in order to keep him alive. I didn't want to kill him, just stop his actions against me".

If you have the ability to help another, though you have no obligation to do so, you make a good case for your mindset and actions of attempting to stop and not kill him by rendering or attempting to render aid.

Even if the guy has succumbed to the wounds delivered, your checking vitals will go a long way with the witnessess and juries who may be determining your actions and accordingly, your fate.

Brownie