Agree with Chuck Hawks's rifle recommendations?

[DefiantDad]

DefiantDad,
What's your budget ... including optics as well?

Haha - well, I reckon the Wife is gonna kick my ass if this whole shebang goes over $3000 but I do got a cheap Leapers 24X and a Centerpoint 9X that I am hoping to use for the time being. I am looking to go around $1500 or less for the rifle, unless it really is justified at $2000, and have $1000 for optics, etc. maybe $500 for ammo.

You guys know how it is

 

[DefiantDad]

I don't think I want used, just cuz I am not qualified to judge a used, and want the warranty to fix issues.

 

[Kachok]

Savage doesn't have a monopoly on accuracy ... Savage is just another choice, nothing more, nothing less. I don't have a problem with the barrel nut, just the POS AccuStock, poor machining of the top of the receiver, overall "clunky" build quality of the receiver and inordinately heavy bolt lift.

No you are certainly right, Savage is far from being the only accurate rifle out there, but bang for the buck I have never had one beat my $125 Savage that would one hole all day at 100yd with an el-chepo Bushnell scope, that one takes the cake
Tikka/Sako, Browning, Kimber, CZ, Thompson Center, Winchester, Weatherby, Ruger, and others have made some fantastic highly accurate rifles that I would be proud to own, but for one reason or another I can never find one (as with the CZ) or they are priced so high it makes me dizzy (Sako/Kimber) or they have such a long waiting list that they are no longer takeing orders (Ruger) So I usualy end up buynig Savages and probably more Tikkas. Inexpensive, abundant, available, and yes accurate.

 

[BADUNAME37]

If I were in the market for a nice .308 it would be an AR (I believe that would be an AR-10 as opposed to the AR-15).

If you already have an AR, you could get the same basic configuration as your existing rifle, then you would already be at least half used to the new rifle!

 

[MCMXI]

(i think GAP uses POF receivers)

The upper receiver looks like a POF too .... interesting.

http://www.gaprecision.net/ga-precision-2012-custom-rifles/ga-precision-g.a.-precision-gap-10-.html

 

[DefiantDad]

If I were in the market for a nice .308 it would be an AR (I believe that would be an AR-10 as opposed to the AR-15).

If you already have an AR, you could get the same basic configuration as your existing rifle, then you would already be at least half used to the new rifle!

I understand your recommendation but I can imagine if I get an AR10 I am going to eventually still want to get a "hunting rifle" as opposed to assaulting hogs

Illogical I know!

 

[Kachok]

One big problem with the 308 assult rifles is that they are bloody heavy, one trip hiking through the woods with an 11lbs rifle and I promise you that you will be drooling over a 5lbs Kimber or 6lbs Tikka, plus all the good 308 semi autos I have seen cost major $$$$ I know the new FALs run in the $1,500-$1,700 range while my tack driving Tikka T3 Stainless cost me $408

 

[tomrkba]

You absolutely hit the nail. I really am undecided. I feel like I WANT an auto, for follow up, but part of me thinks I SHOULD have a bolt because that is what most hunters and snipers use for accuracy.

A sanity check is required at this time. You are falling into the dual traps of eternal optimization and gun lust. The gun almost does not matter if it meets the requirements you set. The requirements you set were: 1) suitable for self-defense, 2) 600 range capability, and 3) hunting and range use. A scoped bolt-action rifle does not do well at close ranges. You're handicapping yourself if you want a rifle for fighting. If you want a rifle for target shooting and hunting, then a bolt action may be a great way to go. Some great suggestions have been made (I like the Tikka at $400ish). I had very good results with Savage. Other friends used Winchester and Remington rifles out to 1,000 yards with no issues.

As I stated before, some 8541's (before the USMC changed the designation) preferred the semi-auto as a sniping weapon. We already went over how the semi-auto rifle matches your criteria for close range through 800 yard shooting. Though you do sacrifice some MOA, it is offset by the action itself (no breaking your position to reload, faster shots if necessary, etc), magazine capacity, flexibility, and accessories. The lost MOA is not that much and you still can get great groups at distance. A 2 MOA gun is more than enough since that is a 12" group at 600 yards (which was your required maximum distance). A 3 MOA gun and ammo combination will still score torso hits at 600 yards. Most hunters only take short range shots and many will question the wisdom of shooting at an animal more than 300-400 yards away. This is more than enough for general citizen defense and hunting.

 

[DefiantDad]

Alright. Sanity check appreciated.

 

[jmr40]

I have never had one beat my $125 Savage that would one hole all day at 100yd with an el-chepo Bushnell scope, that one takes the cake

$125 Savage rifles don't exist anymore. Today a Savage is middle of the road in both price and accuracy. Decent guns, but nothing special. I've owned 3, my brother 1. None were bad, but all have been sold because they were not accurate enough to take the spot of rifles we already owned. A more accurate description of Savage is to say that you almost never get an innacurate one. You will find plenty of other brands that will equal or best them in accuracy, price and looks.

Chuck Hawks has some good advice, but is very prejudiced against anything he considers modern. Anything using modern manufacturing methods or materials he looks over even though they outperform the traditional guns for much less money.

If I were buying a new rifle today I want nothing but stainless and "quality" synthetic. Winchester and Ruger would top my list with Kimber right there if it fits your budget. I'd most likely replace the factory stock on anything but a Kimber with a McMillan anyway.

Other guns to consider are the Tikka, TC Venture, Vanguard, and of course the Savage. An older used Remington would be a possibility, but sadly I wouldn't buy a new one.

 

[Kachok]

Do you handload? Only one of my Savages performed perfectly with factory fodder, but I have been able to stroke all of them to spectacular accuracy with handloads. Sadly you are right, there are no $125 Savages (or anything else) anymore, that was many years ago.
Chuck Hawks is old fashoned no doubt, he HATES Tikka rifles, and I think they are the best thing since sliced bread. He can cry about the "plastic" recoil lug all he wants but mine shoots so fantastic and fits so perfect that I consider it one of the finest rifles ever produced. I shot a beautiful one hole 1/12th MOA group with it yesterday with my first batch of 129gr SSTs, it is hella hard to get any more accurate then that from a 6lbs rifle.

 

[TimboKhan]

Not to throw another log on the fire but something that fits what you want to a tee, and that I can personally recommend, is the Ruger Scout.

I bought one specifically for a hog hunt that I went on in April, and I just couldn't be more pleased with it. I honestly can't imagine a single hunting scenario that I would be in under anything approaching normal conditions where it wouldn't be darn near perfect, it's easier to carry, it shoulders fast, and I really like the fact that I have multiple sighting options available. I will agree that semi-autos are probably better for multiple hogs, but I don't feel like I am giving anything up with the bolt-action.

I honestly can't recommend it enough, and if I could only pick one rifle to hunt with for the rest of my days, this would be the one. I am honestly not so sure it wouldn't be my SHTF or "Survival" rifle, after thinking that through a little bit....

 

[Nullcone]

do you folks agree with Chuck Hawks's assessment of these top rated rifles?

No.

I don't like to buy twice

Problem is, you just re-listed NINETEEN rifle choices... and have had probably 2x that amount recommended by various people (myself included) in your threads re: this issue.

You're over-thinking this enough to make MY head hurt...

$3000

You can buy a nice rifle/scope combo for that. A very nice one, especially since you don't seem to care about premium wood.

Heck, I could buy 3 nice rifle/scope combos for that... they may not cut it for F-Class or 1000 yard stuff but I'm not at that level yet anyhow. Are you?

Go to your favorite gun store. Handle everything they have, bolt/semi/single, .308/non-.308, and so on.

Pick the one you liked best. Buy it from them (pay what they ask since you just spent 4 hours slobbering on their inventory... order it if it isn't in .308 like you want).

Spend the summer shooting it. Post here telling us how you're doing... take pics.

Come Fall, decide if it fits your needs. If it doesn't you'll know exactly where the improvements need to come from, or at least you should.

Repeat as needed.

 

[303tom]

Chuck`s the man...............

 

[Sock Puppet]

Go to your favorite gun store. Handle everything they have, bolt/semi/single, .308/non-.308, and so on.

Pick the one you liked best. Buy it from them (pay what they ask since you just spent 4 hours slobbering on their inventory... order it if it isn't in .308 like you want).

Spend the summer shooting it. Post here telling us how you're doing... take pics.

Come Fall, decide if it fits your needs. If it doesn't you'll know exactly where the improvements need to come from, or at least you should.

Repeat as needed.

Excellent advice.

 

[Esoxchaser]

Browning BLR. Bolt gun accuracy, lever gun sexiness.

 

[tomrkba]

Alright. Sanity check appreciated.

The standard THR answer is to whip out the credit card and buy both rifles.

 

[Art Eatman]

Lemme get "defense" out of the way: Most any old semi-auto in .223 or 7.62x39 will work. An SKS is as good as any, and cheap.

Okay: Hunting and paper. Way back when, I bought a Weatherby Mark V. German made, 26" barrel in '06. I load all my own ammo. I toted that rather heavy rascal all over the place for right at 35 years. I had to do some tweaking of the forearm bedding, and I put a Canjar trigger in it. But it was reliably sub-MOA through some 4,000 rounds. Sub-MOA out to 500 yards, also, not just the usual 100.

There are probably a bunch of rifles available that are as good. I'm sorta dubious that there are many that I'd call better.

The thing about precise aiming is that a one-shot kill doesn't require a follow-up. I'm happy to say I've never needed one. So, I've never particularly been seriously interested in a semi-auto for "real" hunting. I've had Minis and ARs, but they're not really what I'd call serious rifles, compared to an '06 (or equivalent-power cartridge). But that's just me.

I dunno. I guess I'd look for whatever rifle looks reasonably attractive insofar as aesthetics, and make sure it fits my body dimensions. Anything can be tweaked to shoot tight groups. It ain't about ego and cost; it's about hitting the intended target.

Enuf babble...

 

[sgtstryker]

Being one of those ole timey 8541's, I do like a good bolt gun. But I do give a nod to the AR in putting accurate rounds downrange. I am curious as to what .223 rifle you shoot now ? The requirements to want can be covered with the AR-10, IMO. Yes, it will be heavy, yes it will be accurate at 600 yards and this will allow it to provide long range cover for you and yours. Ammo possibilities are great and it will bowl a hog over real good. Good luck in your choice..

 

[BoilerUP]

Remington 700 AAC-SD or Savage 10FP-SR, Weaver or EGW 20MOA base, Weaver GS Tactical 3-10x40 mil/mil scope, Burris XTR 1" low rings. Get a case of Federal 175gr Gold Metal Match, go shoot, and upgrade the stock and/or trigger down the road as you prefer.

Alternately, Savage 11 Hog Hunter and immediately replace the stock with something not crappy Savage tupperware.

 

[taliv]

The thing about precise aiming is that a one-shot kill doesn't require a follow-up. I'm happy to say I've never needed one.

no doubt, if you're talking about deer hunting or big game hunting or whatnot.

pigs usually wander around in large groups though, and quick, accurate follow up shots could get you lots of pigs.

also, i completely agree that it is unethical for vast majority of people to "hunt" game at 500 yards (for the purpose of a little meat and something to hang on their wall and take their picture next to), but eliminating nuisances like wolves, coyotes, pigs etc at is fine in my book, so long as you know your target and what's behind it


edit to add: check this thread out http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3122374&gonew=1#UNREAD
note the correlation between piles of bacon and semi-autos

 

[jaysouth]

Mike Sr.

You must have quite a supply of those 7600Ps. The one I bought from you has either a Bushnell red dot or a Weaver V3 mounted on it. It is more accurate than I can hold it. I normally keep it sighted in for 50 yards which is way further than I can see in the swamps. However at a hundred yards with a scope set on 9 power, it shoots three round groups inside two inches all day with cheapo Remington factory Wal-mart rounds. In practical terms, thats about 1/10th minute of a hog.

It is a bit finicky feeding with my flatnose cast bullets but is flawless with factory rounds or spitzer point reloads.

You got any more for sale? Several of the swamp-rats that I hog hunt with in Arkansas have experessed interest in mine. It is easy to handle in a boat or in thick brush and has the accuracy and knockdown that I need for any deer or hog I am likely to encounter.

To the OP, back on thread, I would look at spending 500+ on a Savage 111/112/114 with accu-trigger. Out of the box, they are very accurate and offer every accessory except scope rings. It is also cheap to change calibers/barrels on the Savage. Mastering this gun would indeed make you a master of rifle shooting. Buy this gun and a good Vortex scope. The next step is getting into reloading. cheap ammo is the key to frequent practice which is the key to mastery of shooting. Don't plink, train hard and date every target and put it in a file for future reference

 

[DefiantDad]

Being one of those ole timey 8541's, I do like a good bolt gun. But I do give a nod to the AR in putting accurate rounds downrange. I am curious as to what .223 rifle you shoot now ? The requirements to want can be covered with the AR-10, IMO. Yes, it will be heavy, yes it will be accurate at 600 yards and this will allow it to provide long range cover for you and yours. Ammo possibilities are great and it will bowl a hog over real good. Good luck in your choice..

I have an AR-15 right now.

 

[DefiantDad]

Excellent advice.

Yes agreed. Will be doing soon.

 

[DefiantDad]

Taking everything you guys have said into consideration. Not being frivolous about asking for your advice. Am taking all this seriously.

Will be back!