AHSA

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TexasRifleman said:
I have yet to see any evidence that AHSA does not support an AWB, ...

You posted 4 posts after the following post on the previous thread.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5252407&postcount=157

I think that we can agree from the tone of the post that ohgrady is not a proponent of the AHSA, can we not? :)

If someone hostile to the AHSA posts e-mail that says that the AHSA does not support the AWB, then I think we can agree that it's very unlikely that such a person fabricated the e-mail.

So there are three pieces of evidence that the AHSA does not support the AWB:

  1. There is no mention of support of the AWB on the AHSA web site.
  2. In private communication with me, I specifically asked Ray Schoenke about the AWB, and he expressed opposition.
  3. When ohgrady asked, the AHSA said that they did not support the AWB.

Given those three, I think this aspect of the thread had devolved into the secret policy/public policy conspiracy theory about the AHSA. I disposed of that theory on one of the two threads - I forget which one at this point.

Unless you have new facts that you have not previously posted, then I probably won't respond to any more "But I know they have a secret policy of support for the AWB" posts.

Cordially,

Mike
 
You're either very young or not being honest.

We are way off topic, but what I remember of George Wallace was his 1963 Inaugural speech - I just looked up the quote, and I did remember it correctly:

In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Wallace%27s_1963_Inaugural_Address

I understand that he modified his views later in his life.

Mike
 
If AHSA does not support the AWB, show me one press release, speech, or related information denouncing Obama's support for reinstating it.

Show me how much money they've spent campaigning against Obama's stance on the issue.

I will also note that Mssr. Yemen has yet to respond to my previous post or any of the topics I listed. (I even used bullet points!)
 
For those of you who think that we need only the 2nd, I will point out that I lived for 2 1/2 in a country with the highest per capita rate of firearms in the world and a terrible human rights record. A country where every almost adult male owned a pistol and an AK-47 that regularly tortured and killed its citizens - North Yemen in the mid 1980's. The Yemenis had virtually none of rights guaranteed in our Bill of Rights - except the 2nd, and they had that in spades.

Let me clue you into something:

THR is a firearms-based specialty discussion forum. Just because the discussion here revolves around shooting, competing, hunting, technical firearms discussion, RKBA, and other gun-specific topics doesn't mean that the people here don't care about other issues.

It just means they understand and acknowledge the intent and meaning of the forum.

Frankly, I'm somewhat surprised I have to explain such an utterly simple concept.
 
This thread seems to be going exactly the way that the other two have.

My post explains exactly why someone who loves the Bill of Rights would see an alternative to the NRA.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5266537&postcount=14

I will continue to monitor this thread to see if anyone has a convincing argument to support the NRA's willingness to trade the other nine Amendments for the 2nd.

Mike
 
This thread seems to be going exactly the way that the other two have.

Yeah, it is. You sprinkle sugar on bull and call it candy. And then you get all bent out of shape when we point out that all you've got is bull.

Since you've failed to directly address any of my criticisms in this thread or the others, consider this one done.
 
AHSA - American Hunters & Shooter's Association

AHSA has been promoted recently as an alternative RKBA, pro-hunting & conservation group. Anyways, I thought that this makes interesting reading as to what they are really all about - http://www.nssf.org/share/PDF/AHSA.pdf


Fact Sheet: American Hunters and Shooters Association
“Restoring Pride in America’s Hunting and Shooting Heritage”?


“Restoring pride in America’s hunting and shooting heritage.” That’s the mission of a new organization, the American Hunters and Shooters Association (AHSA). And while this mission is hardly offensive or even suspicious, the make-up of this organization is nothing short of alarming. Just last week (August 23, 2006) the former President of the AHSA Foundation, John Rosenthal, blasted Massachusetts gun maker Smith & Wesson for advertising during New England Patriots football games. The ads promote gun safety and the company's Web site. Why the hysteria? Does the AHSA Foundation believe that firearms are not legitimate products?

AHSA has endorsed Sen. Barrack Obama for President of the United States, despite the senator’s support for banning all handguns and support for holding firearm manufacturers responsible for the misuse of their products by criminals.

The following fact sheet should serve as an educational tool to raise awareness of AHSA’s services and leadership, demonstrating that AHSA is actually the latest in a long line of anti-gun groups camouflaging themselves as pro-hunting and pro-conservation in order to split our community. Before you give AHSA any creed – beware the wolf in sheep’s clothing, and see for yourself:

Services

General Operations
Reported in an article by Bill Schneideri that the operating budget for AHSA is $500,000. Where did this money come from? With only a handful of members (paying $25 dues) – who is bankrolling their operation?

Safety and Education
AHSA certainly talks a lot about safety and education on their website, but what programs have they proposed? Who specifically in law enforcement are they working with? Also, what problems are there with NSSF programs that need to be addressed in order to “restore” pride in our community?

Hunting and Conservation
AHSA talks a great game about the importance of hunting and conservation; but what are they doing? From reviewing their website, not one program is mentioned. While the AHSA site does have some links to state hunting websites, it seems to be a watered-down version of the NSSF www.huntandshoot.org portal that provides access to helpful hunting and shooting resources, and links to searchable state-by-state databases.

Legal and Legislative
NSSF has been dedicated to maintaining a political climate supportive of America's traditional firearms rights. NSSF has focused on promoting unified positions on critical issues affecting the industry and in developing strategic policy alliances and partnerships with legislative consultants and other organizations.

Has AHSA developed a legal or lobbying team to advocate on behalf of hunters and shooters? Are they prepared to actively challenge gun control and anti-hunting groups like the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence (Brady Campaign) (http://www.bradycampaign.org/) to which some of their leaders have strong ties?

AHSA and Industry Lawsuits
One of the most significant disconnects between what AHSA states and what AHSA does, can be seen in the baseless lawsuits against the firearms industry. AHSA has publicly endorsed the Protection of Lawful Commerce In Arms Act (PLCAA), stating “AHSA believes gun manufacturers, distributors and dealers should not be held civilly liable solely for the criminal acts of third parties who injure or kill innocent victims. Manufacturers, distributors or dealers who knowingly and willfully violate the law or conduct themselves in an unlawful manner should not be immune from civil liability.”ii However, Robert Ricker, executive director (AHSA) and Joe Vince, board member (AHSA), have been paid witnesses against the
firearms industry in municipal suits in California, Washington, D.C. and New York City (including the “City of New York v. Beretta U.S.A. Corp. et al” case which is still pending).

During one case in which Ricker testified for the NAACP against 68 gun manufacturers and distributors, he was asked about statements he made while representing the firearms industry denouncing lawsuits aimed at holding manufacturers responsible for the criminal misuse of their products by third parties. Ricker’s response was, “I was paid to put forth that position.”iii He then admitted that he was being paid $225 an hour by the NAACP to testify on its behalf. So now when Mr. Ricker claims he and AHSA, who is paying him a salary of $3000 a month, are in favor of protecting the industry from baseless lawsuits, what are we to believe?

Does the truth go to the highest bidder?

Founders / Executives
While AHSA purports to be a pro-hunting, pro-conservation and pro-gun organization, its leadership and board would qualify as a blue ribbon committee of activists who are anything but friends to the hunting, shooting sports and firearms community. Let’s take a look at who runs this “hunters and shooters” organization:

Robert Ricker (Executive Director, AHSA)

Paid witness against the firearms industry for cases where plaintiffs attempted to hold gun manufacturers liable for the criminal misuse of their products by third parties.

Monthly salary of $3000; AHSA claims no more than 150 members who pay $25 dues. The rest of the money comes from “individual contributions” with the largest contributors on the AHSA board of directors.iv

Paid an hourly fee of $225 to $250 dollars for testimony, depositions, and meetings with the Brady Campaign.v

Consults for the Educational Fund to End Handgun Violence (the “educational” arm of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence).vi (http://www.csgv.org/)

Consults with Virginians for Public Safety (http://www.vapublicsafety.com/) (lobbying for additional restrictions on law abiding gun owners).vii

Ray Schoenke (President, AHSA)

Mr. Schoenke, his wife, his daughter and son have been generous donors of anti-gun candidates including: Al Gore, Barbara Boxer, Bill Clinton, Dianne Feinstein, Ted Kennedy, Carolyn McCarthy and John Kerry.viii

Mr. Schoenke and his wife donated $10,000 to Handgun Control, Inc. (HCI) in 2000.ix

Mr. Schoenke’s daughter and son each contributed $5000 to HCI in 2000.x

John Rosenthal (Former President, AHSA Foundation)

Rosenthal is the leader of Stop Handgun Violence, the principal anti-gun group in the state of Massachusetts (credited with being the “political force behind the strict gun control laws of Massachusetts”xi)

Rosenthal is a former member of the HCI board of directors, now known as the Brady Campaign.

Rosenthal has most recently focused his energy on voicing opposition to firearms’ advertisements during sporting events < http://news.bostonherald.com/localRe...ticleid=154057 >

Rosenthal resigned from AHSA in May 2007 following his continued public involvement with gun-ban groups – activities that drew unwanted attention to the clandestine anti-gun agenda of the AHSA.

Jody Powell (Co-Chairman, AHSA Advisory Board)

Press Secretary for one of the most anti-gun U.S. administrations, President Jimmy Carter.

Richard Feldman (Paid Consultant to AHSA)

Author of “Ricochet” – a book denouncing the National Rifle Association

Paid consultant to anti-gun New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg

Joe Vince (Board Member, AHSA)

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) architect of the Clinton-Gore regulatory assault on the Second Amendment.

His company Crime Gun Solutions (CGS) employs a number of other ex-ATF officials including Gerard Nunziato, who told the Houston Chronicle that “If it wasn’t for criminals, there wouldn’t be a gun industry in this country.”

Crime Gun Solutions provides consulting services for the lawyers at the Brady Campaign, frequently appearing as paid expert witnesses in lawsuits against the firearms industry.

Also discussed over at .US - http://www.thehighroad.us/showthread.php?t=409326
 
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