Ain't that a hoot...223 anti-logic

[berettaprofessor]

I have a Stag varminter in 5.56; 24 inch Stainless bull barrel with a 1:8 twist, that I've been trying to work up a good reload for. Thinking about the 1:8 twist, I was using heavier bullets, mostly 62 and 68 grain Hornady Match in my workups, and both had shown promise at my 50 yard home range. Yesterday, at 100 yards, I tested every 223 load I had available, 12 different loads from 55 grain commercial to my 62 and 68 grain reloads, to Hornady Black and on to 77 grain Federal Premium Match.

And what shot the best? Plain old PMC Bronze 55 grain, one 5 shot group under 0.7 inches at 100 yards and another at 1.02 inches! Cheapest thing around, almost as cheap as my reloads. In fact, all of the 55 grain bullets shot pretty well from LC193 to PMC X-tac, to Tactical AE193. My 62 grain Hornady Match reloads were only the 4th best overall group and all the heavier loads were not very impressive at all, including the Hornady Black and two commerical loads with heavy Sierra bullets.

So, it's back to the drawing board. If this rifle likes them light, I'll try them light for awhile. Just picked up some 52 grain Hornady ELD Match to try. If you can't beat em.......

Anyone have similar experiences with 1:8 or 1:7 twists?

 

[Allen One1]

My gun also seemed to like the lighter 55 gr bullets although I'm not sure it got any better groups than the heavier bullets. Since I wanted to reach out to 600-750 yards I went with the Hornady 75g BTHP over Varget. They shot well but it was a struggle to keep them under 1 moa. Some of that at least I blame on the gun, I just couldn't get comfortable on it. I never tried the Hornady 73g ELD-M but I think that may be a very good contender.

 

[entropy]

It's not that 1:8 only shoots heavier bullets better-it still shoots 55 gr. just fine, too. My DPMS Sportical (1:9) likes 55 gr. V-max the best, still shoots 40gr. Ballistic tips OK to 100. Heaviest I've shot with it have been 62gr Silver Bear SP's, and they shoot well also. I 'm going to try 60 gr. this fall.

 

[rsrocket1]

Ditto here. 20" AR with 1:7 twist. PMC gives me great groups at 100 yards.



This is the best I've been able to get so far with 55g fmjbt's with PMC brass and 748 @ 100 yards:



Good enough for "target shooting" but the consistency of that $6/20 PMC Bronze ammo is amazing.

 

[SamT1]

My 1:8 has really liked some 50 grain v max bullets I had for 22-250.
So I’d say the stereotype that 1:8 likes heavier is wrong. Just 1:8 will shoot light and heavy. It’s the king. I’m not sure why they still make them all over the place. Who wants an AR that you single load and who wants one that Capps at 55 grain bullets. I vote 1:8 be the standard.

 

[Hondo 60]

My 20" 1 in 9, loves cheap 55gr BTFMJs.
My groups shrink to less than 1/2 of he factory ammo I've tried.
My load is 26.0 gr Varget OAL 2.225"

 

[Toprudder]

I have a 20" 1:8 Stainless that I've worked up loads for. The best factory ammo I have found is the Winchester black box 77smk match ammo, at about 0.75moa. The IMI 77 Razorcore is second best and costs a LOT less (Midway has that on sale for $0.50 per round, shipped). They come in at just under 1 moa.

For low cost plinking ammo that is accurate, I like the Hornady 55 SP, they consistently shoot under 1moa, and I've shot a 0.55moa 5 shot group before. This is a good bullet for about 300 yards. For longer range, my gun seems to like the Hornady 75bthp, I recently worked up loads using 8208 powder and shot a 0.45moa 5 shot group with it, but overall I would say it is a consistent 0.75 moa load. I've shot that out to 500 yards and it does very well. I recently picked up 1000 of those bullets for $0.14 each on sale, shipped (RMR). I had some promising results with Berger bullets, but they are expensive.

 

[Skgreen]

[

I just couldn't get comfortable on it

Who wants an AR that you single load

Everyone has their preference's, but these comments remind me of why I leave the AR's at home and use a bolt action at the range,,,

In my old 9 twist barrel, the PMC Bronze was probably the most accurate 'store-bought' stuff that I had on hand. (Never really tried any 'high-dollar' ammo) Same barrel really took a shine to my 68 gr reloads.

New barrel is an 8 twist. Shows some promise, but too durn hot here in Houston to "enjoy'' time at the range. And if it isn't enjoyable,,,, I'll wait until it is!

 

[Don Dayacetah]

PMC makes pretty decent ammo, IMO. My 1/7 handles 55, and even 50 grain well.

 

[2ndtimer]

I have a Stag varminter in 5.56; 24 inch Stainless bull barrel with a 1:8 twist, that I've been trying to work up a good reload for. Thinking about the 1:8 twist, I was using heavier bullets, mostly 62 and 68 grain Hornady Match in my workups, and both had shown promise at my 50 yard home range. Yesterday, at 100 yards, I tested every 223 load I had available, 12 different loads from 55 grain commercial to my 62 and 68 grain reloads, to Hornady Black and on to 77 grain Federal Premium Match.

And what shot the best? Plain old PMC Bronze 55 grain, one 5 shot group under 0.7 inches at 100 yards and another at 1.02 inches! Cheapest thing around, almost as cheap as my reloads. In fact, all of the 55 grain bullets shot pretty well from LC193 to PMC X-tac, to Tactical AE193. My 62 grain Hornady Match reloads were only the 4th best overall group and all the heavier loads were not very impressive at all, including the Hornady Black and two commerical loads with heavy Sierra bullets.

So, it's back to the drawing board. If this rifle likes them light, I'll try them light for awhile. Just picked up some 52 grain Hornady ELD Match to try. If you can't beat em.......

Anyone have similar experiences with 1:8 or 1:7 twists?

My Stag Model 6 shoots pretty much everything under MOA at 100 yards, 40 gr Z-Max through 69 gr Nosler HPBT Custom Competition. I agree with your results of the PMC Bronze being the pick of the cheap 55 gr FMJ factory ammo, compared to Federal American Eagle, Norma TAC 223, and IMI 55 gr. Am curious what powder you were using in your handloads? My handloads with Ramshot TAC or IMR-8208XBR easily outshoot any of the factory 55 gr FMJ loads in my Stag (as well as my Remington 700 bolt gun), with all bullet weights. Factory Fiocchi Extrema 40 gr V-Max loads also are more accurate than the 55 gr FMJ's in my Stag.

 

[Blue68f100]

The Anderson SS 1:8 Wydle chamber would shoot 65-69gr lights out. But it could not put a 55gr < 2 moa at 100 yrds. Every barrel is unique to itself. My new Shilen 1:9 twist , Min Spec chamber handles the 52gr-65gr with no issues. Seams to start drooping off above the 65gr.

 

[cougar1717]

There are many times that individual barrels dare to defy internet forum "rule of thumb" wisdom. How dare they shoot well with combinations that they aren't supposed to be ideal!


I keep an ammo box with some of my best worked up loads in 223Rem. Various bullet weights, all full length sized and mag length of course so that they can go in anything. Sometimes, I am surprised but you never know until you try.

 

[berettaprofessor]

Am curious what powder you were using in your handloads?

I used CFE223 in these 62 and 68 grain trials. In the past, I've also used Benchmark but decided I preferred the CFE for accuracy. Again, until now, the testing was all at 50 yards....at 100 yards, all bets seem to be off.

 

[Engineer1911]

This is my experience with match quality ammo. I've tried for 22+ years to find that 'ultimate match load' for several 223 rifles that I use to shoot prairie dogs out on the Plains. H322, AA 2015, AA 2230, Win 748, H335, BLC-2 were the powders I've tried. Bullets by Hornady, Speer, Sierra, MidwayUSA, and Mid South Shooters Supply sometimes gave great 5 shot groups, but nothing was really consistent.

Two weeks ago I took my 1995 Wyndham, ME Bushmaster with 16" barrel, stamped 5.56 NATO 1/9 H BAR, standard flash hider, collapsible butt stock, and carry handle style military stock iron sights to the range . I bought the "front sight adjusting tool", brought along the original "G.I. owner's manual", and 40 rounds of 'range pickup' ammo. At 25 yards, set the rear sight, adjusted the front sight to hit x-ring on 25 yard Bullseye pistol target at 25 yards. Moved the target out to 100 yards, taped holes, and put up new 25 yard center, 7 shots later I had 3 hits inside the 10 ring. Now let's find out how this rifle shoots.

Put up a new 25 yard target at 100 yards, loaded the last 15 rounds into the mag, and was ready. Those 15 bullets were a mixture of LC, WCC, FC, Winchester, Federal, Remington, Tula, Wolf, Speer, and Hornady ammo with different weight bullets, spire point, poly tipped, FMJ, HP -- just a hodge-podge mixture. All the ammo fit a case gauge, wiped clean of dust and grim, randomly loaded into the magazine. From a Lyman rest, holding the butt stock against my shoulder with my left hand, I fired the 15 rounds at the 25 yard Bullseye target set at 100 yards at ~5 second intervals. Good sight picture, squeeze the trigger, and repeat. 2 shots broke to the outside of the 10 ring (but were still 10), the other 13 rounds were inside the 10 ring, and the X-ring was shot out of the target. Would have been 15 dead prairie dogs with military iron sights. Why do I keep looking for perfection?

 

[SamT1]

This is my experience with match quality ammo. I've tried for 22+ years to find that 'ultimate match load' for several 223 rifles that I use to shoot prairie dogs out on the Plains. H322, AA 2015, AA 2230, Win 748, H335, BLC-2 were the powders I've tried. Bullets by Hornady, Speer, Sierra, MidwayUSA, and Mid South Shooters Supply sometimes gave great 5 shot groups, but nothing was really consistent.

Two weeks ago I took my 1995 Wyndham, ME Bushmaster with 16" barrel, stamped 5.56 NATO 1/9 H BAR, standard flash hider, collapsible butt stock, and carry handle style military stock iron sights to the range . I bought the "front sight adjusting tool", brought along the original "G.I. owner's manual", and 40 rounds of 'range pickup' ammo. At 25 yards, set the rear sight, adjusted the front sight to hit x-ring on 25 yard Bullseye pistol target at 25 yards. Moved the target out to 100 yards, taped holes, and put up new 25 yard center, 7 shots later I had 3 hits inside the 10 ring. Now let's find out how this rifle shoots.

Put up a new 25 yard target at 100 yards, loaded the last 15 rounds into the mag, and was ready. Those 15 bullets were a mixture of LC, WCC, FC, Winchester, Federal, Remington, Tula, Wolf, Speer, and Hornady ammo with different weight bullets, spire point, poly tipped, FMJ, HP -- just a hodge-podge mixture. All the ammo fit a case gauge, wiped clean of dust and grim, randomly loaded into the magazine. From a Lyman rest, holding the butt stock against my shoulder with my left hand, I fired the 15 rounds at the 25 yard Bullseye target set at 100 yards at ~5 second intervals. Good sight picture, squeeze the trigger, and repeat. 2 shots broke to the outside of the 10 ring (but were still 10), the other 13 rounds were inside the 10 ring, and the X-ring was shot out of the target. Would have been 15 dead prairie dogs with military iron sights. Why do I keep looking for perfection?

Possibly has a hand in why the military runs it. 308 is the same way.

My fancy 223 reloads shoot very good, but the Tula from Walmart shoots MOA at 100 in a very nice AR.