Air rifle question

[Steelharp]

Stopped by Wally World, and I have a question. There were two air rifles, one by Daisy, a 1000S, and a Gamo Shadow 1000. Both said 1,000 fps, the Daisy was $94 and the Gamo was $124. Which would you recommend? Is one markedly better than the other?

 

[Third_Rail]

Neither.

Explanation here.

 

[Mr Bangdango]

If you are deciding between what Walmart has then l would go with the Daisy. The only other sugestion I would make is to make sure it has a full sized stock unless you want a youth sized one. I'm not sure but I believe most of the air rifles at Walmart have the youth sized stocks. If you widen your search to other sources then you will find many nice air rifles for just a lil bit more. There are a lot of places online that sells them as well as many gun stores.

 

[Steelharp]

I see... so I should really look into other lines, like Beeman, etc... I appreciate the advice... I do want something at 1,000 fps, as it will be a varmint remover...

 

[JohnKSa]

Newbies to air rifles always get this advice and always ignore it, but I'll throw it out there anyway.

Power is not the most important thing in air rifles by a wide margin. In fact the more powerful a spring piston air rifle is, the harder it is to shoot accurately.

You might hang out here awhile and get some opinions on air rifles from folks who use them every day.

 

[WhiteKnight]

The BSA Supersport @ ~$200 or the Beeman R9 @ ~$260 would be markedly better than both. Heck, either would be substantially better.

 

[Third_Rail]

Steelharp, look into something in .22 cal going 600-700 FPS... that'll be a heck of a lot better for varmints than .177 at 1000 FPS.

Do check out the link I posted.

 

[JA]

Due to the large amount of drop a .22 pellet has I have always been a fan of the flatter shooting .177 rifles. In a 1000fps rifle the heavier pellets that weigh 9 grains or more give the best preformence when shooting live targets.
I have owned many Daisy and Crossman pump up air rifles. Also a dozen models of the Chinese air rifles starting with a B-3 in the early 1980's.
http://store.1stopbbgun.com/chairri1un85.html
The B-3's can still be found at tool tent sales and flea markets for $20.
It gave 630fps that is 100fps more than the any of the US made pump up rifles. The B-3 did very good on grackles(black birds) and smaller birds. It was deadly on pidgons with head shots but past 50 feet a pidgons head was just too small to hit as the rifle has the same crude sights as a SKS rifle. By 300 some odd pidgons killed with the B-3 they started to smarten up and you couldn't get as close. So heart shots were needed but the rifle just didn't have enough power for clean kills. After seeing a friend's RWS model 45 which was a 850fps rifle at the time it's preformance on pidgons was awesome. I knew I needed more power so I bought a RWS model 36 a year later which is a 1000fps rifle and it would drop them like a rock out to 150 feet with a heart shot. The better sights of the RWS also allowed for head shots out to 75 feet. After slaying 300-400 pidgons with the RWS I lent the rifle in the late 1980's to a friend with a squirrel infestation problem. He left the rifle cocked for weeks and it ruined the spring. It went from shooting 998fps to 520fps and velosities were erratic +/-100fps. Called RWS and ordered a new spring and piston seal for $12. I made a spring compressor from a picture in a magazine and changed them out. This restored it and it will shoot 10.3 grain pellets at 980fps. I haven't shot it since 2001 when I lent it to another friend to take care of a feline infestation(stray cats) problem. He was so impressed with it's one shot one kill power that he bought a RWS model 34 which is the same rifle with a cheaper stock. Which he has since used to cure a coon infestation problem.
So the RWS model 36 was a $163 which was a whole lot of money in the early 1980's for what most people called a "over priced fancy German bb gun". But it is 20+ years old and still preforms as good as it did when new with only $12 in replacement parts.

 

[JohnKSa]

It gave 630fps that is 100fps more than the any of the US made pump up rifles.

My B3 never gave anywhere near that--only about 540fps with 8 gr pellets. My American made Sheridan pump up in .20 caliber (5mm) will shoot over 670fps with Beeman Bearcub pellets and 8 pumps (max).

 

[Hot brass]

I have and have owned some very nice air rifles. First leave the Chinese air guns alone. I don`t care what you are told. I have owned a few, gave them away. Junk. period. Last year my son wanted a higher powered air gun and for under $100 I bought him a highly rated Chinese air rifle. The sights are crooked, the trigger is crap, how the stock is mounted is screwed. Nuff said on a Chinese air rifle.

For $100 bucks a nice air rifle is going to be thin pickins. The Slavia 630 is a good choice. Then for a few bucks more the Sheridans/Bens are the next step up. More money BSA Super Sport. RWS 94, 45. Then you will move into the Bemans.

1000fps, that is hog wash. My only gun that will shoot 1000fps leads the barrel(badly), I heep the pellets at 925 to 950 fps.

Being a newbie you would do well to listen to Third_Rail and JohnKSa.

 

[JA]

I chronogaphed a Daisy and two Crossman .177 pump up rifles which were the models that were sold by the "Mart" stores at the time.
All three with the max amount of pumps per the manual would only give 530-540fps with Crossman pellets.
The B-3 rifles due to having a leather piston seal would give results like you got if the seal was allowed to dry out. The seal would shrink slightly resulting in gaps around it's circumfrence that air could pass by. A couple drops of oil in the air port after each shooting session would keep the leather seal from shrinking allowing it to seal the compression chamber better.
The Sheridan and Benjamin air rifles are pretty much the magnum of pump up air rifles, Due to their price being 3x-4x of the "Mart" pump up rifles they are fairly rare. So I was not talking about them when I made the statement "any US made pump up rifles".

 

[Steelharp]

Well... I'm not sure of the model number, but a buddy of mine at a local shop has an RWS that he'll sell me for $200 otd; I take it that would be a good general recommendation?

 

[JA]

Make sure to check the model number to be sure it is a 1000fps model. As RWS made/makes several models that are in the 550-950fps velosity range.
Also RWS imported several models that were made in Spain branded by them while of good quality are not as well made as the German produced rifles.
http://www.dnrws.com/products.html

 

[Sleeping Dog]

The cheap Chinese air rifles have generally bad trigger pulls. Mine is reasonably accurate, but will never beat a gun with a good trigger.

I had a squirrel inside the house, and the air rifle worked fine. At about 25 feet, one shot dispatched the rodent (standing position, bracing the gun against a door jamb). I've never shot it through a chronograph, so don't know the muzzle velocity.

What kind of varmints are you shooting at, and what distance? Maybe you don't need "the best".

Regards.

 

[Steelharp]

Squirrels, coons, crows, groundhogs, etc... up to about 50 yards, I'd say...

 

[Sleeping Dog]

Groundhog or raccoon at 50 yards? I don't think the cheap Chinese gun would be up to that, not enough power. And probably not accurate enough for 50 yard squirrels or crows. I'll have to try the Chinese gun on the nightly "raccoon parade" through the yard.

Maybe some quiet 22LR ammo?

Regards.

 

[Steelharp]

I've been using my 10/22 for all of it so far, with good success. I was thinking out to the 50 yd mark in case an air rifle was what I had in my hand at the moment. Most of the air rifle use would be a good bit closer; even in the attic.

 

[Legionnaire]

I'm a Beeman fan. For me, accuracy and QUIET were most important to my most recent purchase. I didn't want anything over 1,000 fps. I'm very happy with my R7. I wouldn't go after groundhogs or raccoon with it, but it does the job on squirrels (head shots) and various feathered vermin.

Look at the options at D&R Sports. I've been pleased with their prices and service.

 

[JohnKSa]

JA,

The B3 I had (gave it away) had a synthetic seal. I know cause I pulled it apart and replaced it--the original was damaged (apparently during assembly at the factory).

Anyway, it shot a bit better with the replacement seal, but never got over 550fps.

The Crosman 2100 pump rifle is another pump rifle that will get over 650fps. I believe it will make better than 700fps with light pellets.

BTW, if you're putting oil in the chamber regularly, that could account for higher velocities. That causes dieseling. In a gun as loose as the B3, that's probably not going to damage the gun, but it's not particularly good for it. In a higher end spring piston airgun, oiling the chamber can severely damage it.

 

[ftierson]

By the way, Steelharp, I have a Gamo Shadow 1000, and I really like it. It shoots extremely well, and came with a set of Tru-Glo fiber optic sights that are about the best that I have used. The dots are smaller than on most of the others that I have seen, allowing very precise aiming. The Gamo 1000 is in 4.5mm (.177"). I also have a Gamo Hunter 440, a RWS Model 38 and a RWS Model 52, all of which are 4.5mm guns. The one that I almost always grab to lay pesky varmints low with is the Gamo Shadow 1000 (which is just a plastic stocked Gamo 220).

Whatever rifle you finally decide to get, use good pellets. I use mostly RWS Meisterkugeln (or however it's spelled) or the economy Geco pellets. The flat target pellets are generally more accurate than the pointed ones. For example, the RWS 38 is very erratic with the RWS Superpoint pellet, but is extremely consistent and accurate with the target pellets. You might also try the Beeman Crow Magnum pellet. It's quite heavy in 4.5mm, and will keep the velocity a little lower, but with increased bullet energy. As mentioned above, velocity, by itself, is not everything. But I'd rather have as much as possible as not...

Whatever you end up getting, have fun...

I also have an extremely cheap Chinese air rifle, which is really junk. I can't speak to the rest of the ones that have been mentioned here. However, although I have great respect for the Chinese in many ways, I'm not planning to buy any Chinese manufactured airguns...

 

[JA]

In the 1980's all the Chinese air rifles had leather piston seals and velosity would really drop off it you didn't oil them regularly. I replaced the piston seal in several B-3 and TS-45 rifles that produced around 500fps. They had the seal's edge cut during assembly when the piston was pushed in the receiver past the cut out for the sear. Apparently when they stamped the square hole for the sear in the reciever it left a burr on the front/rear edges. I didn't see a Chinese rifle with a synthetic seal till the early 1990's when Compasseco's model TF-45 came out.
Yes I figure that regular oiling did increse the velosity due to deiseling some but the majority of the increse would be due to the oil soaked leather swelling up and giving a tighter fit inside the receiver.

 

[JohnKSa]

Sounds like they should have stayed with the leather...