Airsoft???
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another48hrs
Member
444, theres a store next to the Belz factory outlet that has the japanese airsoft long guns. I have a M3 super 90 airsoft shorty that is really fun. You put in a shotshell that holds thirty bbs and then each time you pump you shoot three of them at the same time.
another48hrs
Member
Its not inside the mall, but its in that little shopping center next to it where the CK and Saks 5th Ave outlet is.
twoblink
Member
Tamara, custom made ones here... I went digging for the business card, couldn't find it.
I have a japanese catalog, those aren't it. Those are the plastic lined ones. Those won't work. Those aren't the ones I'm talking about..
While it's a bit hard for me to find a 9mm round... I hope I can find some time to go to the store, and take a few pics for ya..
The bore diameter is 6mm for the airsofts, but in taiwan, the guns are made with the correct barrel diameter, so when you look at it, you can't tell that it's an airsoft. This was done for a reason. My buddy says (however) there is no feedramp, and so it's handload only..
I've handled it, pretty real to me!!
Tamara, I'll work hard to find out for ya. since you seem so interested in one.
I have a japanese catalog, those aren't it. Those are the plastic lined ones. Those won't work. Those aren't the ones I'm talking about..
While it's a bit hard for me to find a 9mm round... I hope I can find some time to go to the store, and take a few pics for ya..
The bore diameter is 6mm for the airsofts, but in taiwan, the guns are made with the correct barrel diameter, so when you look at it, you can't tell that it's an airsoft. This was done for a reason. My buddy says (however) there is no feedramp, and so it's handload only..
I've handled it, pretty real to me!!
Tamara, I'll work hard to find out for ya. since you seem so interested in one.
twoblink
Member
Let me go ahead and post a few "airsoft custom" pics, and you tell me if that barrel exit looks like a 9mm or .45ACP, instead of a 6mm bb hole..
as they are 100% replicas, they go through the detail of replicating the barrels as well. I have seen an exploded diagram of most of these guns, and they are very close to the real thing..
The P7 replicas will even lock the breech when you squeeze the cocker!
as they are 100% replicas, they go through the detail of replicating the barrels as well. I have seen an exploded diagram of most of these guns, and they are very close to the real thing..
The P7 replicas will even lock the breech when you squeeze the cocker!
another48hrs
Member
Well, Twoblink from that angle you can't see the 6mm bore, but when you look straight at it its pretty obvious. My M3 looks like a 12 guage but when you look inside its like the end of a meat grinder.
I also heard they have airsoft using a bigger size pellet in 8mm.
Weimadog: My brother has a Glock airsoft gun and when we went to go try a Glock 19 at the shooting range everything felt earily similair. I believe the trigger pull was similiar too, but that was a long time ago.
I also heard they have airsoft using a bigger size pellet in 8mm.
Weimadog: My brother has a Glock airsoft gun and when we went to go try a Glock 19 at the shooting range everything felt earily similair. I believe the trigger pull was similiar too, but that was a long time ago.
Tamara
Senior Member
It's not a very good replica then, is it?
(Real P7s don't do that...)If they're "100% replicas", twoblink, how do they fire airsoft pellets?
You don't have to show any pics, twoblink, I'm a big ol' airsoft fan. They're counterbored to look like the proper diameter.
I think the airsoft alot of people are familar with is the toy crap. The "real" stuff is very nice, and shoots about as good as a paintball gun. The "real" stuff is the Gas Block Back pistols (GBBs, semi or full auto, slide cycles like a real one on every shot), and the Automatic Electric Guns (AEGs, select fire) which are usually subguns/rifles. The "springers" that you cock everytime you fire, and the little tiny toy full autos at guns shows are crappy toy trash. A stock AEG like MP5 model shoots about 280 fps. (and you can upgrade them easily/cheaply to shoot higher) A stock GBB pistol shoots around that fps too.
The mags on these guns are the actual magazines. You reload by swapping them out just like the real thing. The gas guns have a small refillable cartridge inside the mag body for the gas (refillable with gas from a can via a nipple on the bottom) and they also contain the actual BBs (25 rounds in my M9s case, slightly too many but hey...) So during play the slide actually locks back after the last round is fired, you drop the mag with the realistically placed mag release, slam in a fresh one, hit the slide release and you're ready to go. With the AEGs you don't actually cock the gun with the charging handle. You just slap in a new mag and it's ready to fire (only downside to them...).
Me and about 8 guys in the area including my younger brother (who has a Tokyo Mauri MP5 A5 AEG) use airsoft instead of paintball because of the extra realism. Holding a realistic gun, and doing realistic reloads and stuff is major fun, and is good practice IMO. We all carry 4-6 extra mags, use real milsurp LBVs, wear full BDUs, etc when playing. I'm sure it's a "OMG they're terrorists" panic phone call to the police waiting to happen, lol...
For playing "simulations" or war games or whatever you wanna call it, the AEGs are the ticket. The gas pistols would be decent indoors, but let me tell you are you outdistanced, and outgunned outdoors in the woods (as I suppose you would be in real life with a pistol vs a subgun/rifle).
I currently only own a Gas block back KSC Beretta M9. I got it since it was darn similar to my Taurus PT92 AF. And it is, it functions just like the real thing, mag reloads are accomplished exactly like the real thing, it is GREAT training IMO. The trigger setup is virtually identical and it feels the same, the safety works the same (the M9 is of course slightly different in this area from a Taurus, but the Airsoft M9 has a functioning decocker, full safety etc just like real). It has the same 3 dot sights, the mag release, and the slide release are in the same spots. If that isn't great practice to fake combat with a "toy" gun that close to your real one than I don't know what the hell is. There is no other way short of simunitions to get that kind of practice, shooting at real living, thinking opponents...
Of course when skirmishing with the guys I don't even use it, several of the other's have multiple AEGs so I just bum one of them for now. (I am too broke to spend $350 on one right now, I can another real AK for cheaper, but I can't shoot anyone with the real one without some consequences, lol) As I said you are outgunned trying to use a GBB pistol against AEGs.
About the airsoft being converted to fire real bullets, that is bull****. First off, the out barrels on these things is there for looks, it would not fire a bullet. Second off, on the AEGs they do not have a functioning bolt, would not cycle or load a road, and even if they did they would not fire it (no firing pin). The gas guns are very similar to a real pistol, but they do not have a firing pin, real mags do not quite fit in them, and there is not way in hell the gas assembly would fire off a live cartridge. (BTW, my KSC M9 is Taiwanese I believe). There are no currently made airsoft guns that wold be realistically converted to really fire. IFFFF you somehow did manage it would be explode on the first shot.
I will take some scans of my airsoft M9 vs my Taurus...
The mags on these guns are the actual magazines. You reload by swapping them out just like the real thing. The gas guns have a small refillable cartridge inside the mag body for the gas (refillable with gas from a can via a nipple on the bottom) and they also contain the actual BBs (25 rounds in my M9s case, slightly too many but hey...) So during play the slide actually locks back after the last round is fired, you drop the mag with the realistically placed mag release, slam in a fresh one, hit the slide release and you're ready to go. With the AEGs you don't actually cock the gun with the charging handle. You just slap in a new mag and it's ready to fire (only downside to them...).
Me and about 8 guys in the area including my younger brother (who has a Tokyo Mauri MP5 A5 AEG) use airsoft instead of paintball because of the extra realism. Holding a realistic gun, and doing realistic reloads and stuff is major fun, and is good practice IMO. We all carry 4-6 extra mags, use real milsurp LBVs, wear full BDUs, etc when playing. I'm sure it's a "OMG they're terrorists" panic phone call to the police waiting to happen, lol...
For playing "simulations" or war games or whatever you wanna call it, the AEGs are the ticket. The gas pistols would be decent indoors, but let me tell you are you outdistanced, and outgunned outdoors in the woods (as I suppose you would be in real life with a pistol vs a subgun/rifle).
I currently only own a Gas block back KSC Beretta M9. I got it since it was darn similar to my Taurus PT92 AF. And it is, it functions just like the real thing, mag reloads are accomplished exactly like the real thing, it is GREAT training IMO. The trigger setup is virtually identical and it feels the same, the safety works the same (the M9 is of course slightly different in this area from a Taurus, but the Airsoft M9 has a functioning decocker, full safety etc just like real). It has the same 3 dot sights, the mag release, and the slide release are in the same spots. If that isn't great practice to fake combat with a "toy" gun that close to your real one than I don't know what the hell is. There is no other way short of simunitions to get that kind of practice, shooting at real living, thinking opponents...
Of course when skirmishing with the guys I don't even use it, several of the other's have multiple AEGs so I just bum one of them for now. (I am too broke to spend $350 on one right now, I can another real AK for cheaper, but I can't shoot anyone with the real one without some consequences, lol) As I said you are outgunned trying to use a GBB pistol against AEGs.
About the airsoft being converted to fire real bullets, that is bull****. First off, the out barrels on these things is there for looks, it would not fire a bullet. Second off, on the AEGs they do not have a functioning bolt, would not cycle or load a road, and even if they did they would not fire it (no firing pin). The gas guns are very similar to a real pistol, but they do not have a firing pin, real mags do not quite fit in them, and there is not way in hell the gas assembly would fire off a live cartridge. (BTW, my KSC M9 is Taiwanese I believe). There are no currently made airsoft guns that wold be realistically converted to really fire. IFFFF you somehow did manage it would be explode on the first shot.
I will take some scans of my airsoft M9 vs my Taurus...
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Here we go, scanned these on my flatbed scanner. Keep in mind the slight differences between the Taurus and the real Beretta (slide mounted vs frame mounted safety, slight different dimensions, etc), but all in all this airsoft thing is damn close to the real thing, both in in looks and even in the functioning and breakdown/major assemblies of the thing... Also I haven't bothered to remove the orange paint on the tip of barrel, keep meaning to do that... And this is a relatively cheap brand ($100 for this gun at www.airsoftatlanta.com), there are some that are MUCH nicer...
I couldn't fit all the pieces of the Taurus on there, so I just stuck the frame on there. Very similar.... But still no way in hell do you effectively convert the airsoft to fire real bullets, at least not more than once and certainly with alot of danger to shooter, probably more than to the target...
I plan to get an AK AEG since it will be mighty similar to my real AKs, I figure it will be excellent practice on that side of things too (I usually use a MP5 or Sig 550 when borrowing an AEG currently...)
I mean other than simunitions, is there any better tactical simulation setup that is even remotely affordable? These things are fairly cheap considering that, $350 will get you a nice AEG, $100-$200 can get you a decent GBB...
I couldn't fit all the pieces of the Taurus on there, so I just stuck the frame on there. Very similar.... But still no way in hell do you effectively convert the airsoft to fire real bullets, at least not more than once and certainly with alot of danger to shooter, probably more than to the target...
I plan to get an AK AEG since it will be mighty similar to my real AKs, I figure it will be excellent practice on that side of things too (I usually use a MP5 or Sig 550 when borrowing an AEG currently...)
I mean other than simunitions, is there any better tactical simulation setup that is even remotely affordable? These things are fairly cheap considering that, $350 will get you a nice AEG, $100-$200 can get you a decent GBB...
Question for Tamara
On March 18th, 2003 03:41 AM Tamara wrote:
Tamara,
Why is that? I'm familiar with the spring/piston guns, but wouldn't a gas-powered Airsoft also be useful? Are the electrics that much more accurate, or do they just have a higher rate of fire, and thus more "fun."
I'm thinking of target practice in the house, or even some force-on-force training.
Thanks.
On March 18th, 2003 03:41 AM Tamara wrote:
Tamara,
Why is that? I'm familiar with the spring/piston guns, but wouldn't a gas-powered Airsoft also be useful? Are the electrics that much more accurate, or do they just have a higher rate of fire, and thus more "fun."
I'm thinking of target practice in the house, or even some force-on-force training.
Thanks.
Could somebody recommend a source for an Airsoft gas gun like the Glock 26? I would use it for practice.
I have a "springer" P7M13 which needs to have its slide cycled between each shot. It is accurate enough, but feels cheap. I don't want to buy that sort of gun again.
Weimadog
I have a "springer" P7M13 which needs to have its slide cycled between each shot. It is accurate enough, but feels cheap. I don't want to buy that sort of gun again.
Weimadog
Gotta admit, I bought one of these at a gun show last year. A 1911 wanna be. 15 bucks, looks great. The spring type and let me tell you, it is impressive [velocity of the BB]. It has a realistic functioning thumb safety and actually provides entertainment in the barn-yard while I'm scratchin round with all the animals.
My testing has revealed it to shoot within minute-of-coke-can at 20 feet. Reading this thread has got my taste buds up for other types of airsoft guns.
Don't ponder it any longer. Get one of these.
My testing has revealed it to shoot within minute-of-coke-can at 20 feet. Reading this thread has got my taste buds up for other types of airsoft guns.
Don't ponder it any longer. Get one of these.
I don't agree with Tamara that gas guns are useless. They actually have alot going for them since they operate more realistically. For pistol only exercises, indoors and such (thus shorter range) they are great. But they are not as easily modified, and it gets old buying the gas pretty quickly. And for full on exercises where rifles are desired, with others using AEGs you'll get ruled running around with your gas gun so are useless for that... So it depends on exactly what you want them for...
For sources, try www.airsoftatlanta.com and www.redwolfairsoft.com
Keep in mind prices vary alot, if the place you are looking at is overseas the price will be cheap, but shipping is very high so it often evens out...
cratz2
Member
That KG-15H is the spittin' image of my PT99AF. I wonder if they sell that model here?
Tamara
Senior Member
Mad Man,
Maybe "useless" is too harsh a term.
The only real problems with them are: A) They don't work worth a darn in cold weather, and B) The seals seem to go Tango Uniform with apalling regularity (the pricier ones are more durable, however).
Marui is actually releasing some electric pistols with reciprocating slides; hopefully these are good enough to replace gas pistols, but for now, if you want a realistic force-on-force pistol simulator, gas is really the only way to go, despite being somewhat flawed.
Maybe "useless" is too harsh a term.
The only real problems with them are: A) They don't work worth a darn in cold weather, and B) The seals seem to go Tango Uniform with apalling regularity (the pricier ones are more durable, however).
Marui is actually releasing some electric pistols with reciprocating slides; hopefully these are good enough to replace gas pistols, but for now, if you want a realistic force-on-force pistol simulator, gas is really the only way to go, despite being somewhat flawed.
Tamara, don't bother with Marui's electric blowback (EBB) line. They really are marketed for the ages they say on the box (10 and up).
Blowback is weak, the entire slide does not cycle, they are made of very lightweight plastic, and the "magazines" are a joke! You can't even fire the gnu as fast as you can pull the trigger. I had one about 3 years ago, and I quickly sold it.
Blowback is weak, the entire slide does not cycle, they are made of very lightweight plastic, and the "magazines" are a joke! You can't even fire the gnu as fast as you can pull the trigger. I had one about 3 years ago, and I quickly sold it.
Tamara
Senior Member
Bummer.
I was hoping for an alternative to gas. My 93R has left a really bad taste in my mouth re: gas guns, as you can probably tell...
I was hoping for an alternative to gas. My 93R has left a really bad taste in my mouth re: gas guns, as you can probably tell...
twoblink
Member
Tamara...
Two years ago, quite a string of bank robberies happened here in Taiwan; with modified Airsofts...
I think a security guard was wounded in one of them..
And so if an airsoft can't be converted into the real thing... don't tell him... he was shot with one!!
The bullet was "crude" at best also... Soft solder with makeshift gunpowder from (what appears to be) magnisum shavings and firecracker powder...
The weapon (in case you wondered) DID explode... but not before firing a round out of it...
Quite a few have been tried and has blown up... But that doesn't mean you can't make it into a "real" one...
Hmm... maybe we are having definition problems..
What I mean by "real" is it will fire a round.
What you mean by "real" is it will act like the glock in your hand.. If that is what you mean... then I agree with you 100%... You'd have to be stupid to try that with an airsoft... But no less then 5 people did two years ago here in Taiwan...
Two years ago, quite a string of bank robberies happened here in Taiwan; with modified Airsofts...
I think a security guard was wounded in one of them..
And so if an airsoft can't be converted into the real thing... don't tell him... he was shot with one!!
The bullet was "crude" at best also... Soft solder with makeshift gunpowder from (what appears to be) magnisum shavings and firecracker powder...
The weapon (in case you wondered) DID explode... but not before firing a round out of it...
Quite a few have been tried and has blown up... But that doesn't mean you can't make it into a "real" one...
Hmm... maybe we are having definition problems..
What I mean by "real" is it will fire a round.
What you mean by "real" is it will act like the glock in your hand.. If that is what you mean... then I agree with you 100%... You'd have to be stupid to try that with an airsoft... But no less then 5 people did two years ago here in Taiwan...
Tamara
Senior Member
twoblink,
What'd they use for a primer? What about a firing pin?
What'd they use for a primer? What about a firing pin?
DrDremel
Member
I think the posts about buying them in the mall and making them shoot real bullets, and how bank robbers made them into real guns proves my point, I'm leaving this thread as the bull#$%& is too deep in here. The FBI does not use them for training. They use simunitions, which is a conversion of REAL firearms. For those that buy a pistol version for handling, You are not the people I am talking about. The guys with full-auto bb guns, large collections, tell me they are training with them , or that they were flinching from them. My opinion is now stronger than ever. By the way, I do shoot in by basement, I do have real full-auto, and no I am not some rich guy either. I am a guy that can tell the difference between tactical wanabees, toy collectors, and shooters.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
DrDremel-
What are a couple of ways that a person can improve their skills without spending money on ammo, and having to go to the range?
1)Dry-firing a real gun
2)Practice with an airgun firing lead pellets
3)Using an airsoft gun
If you are using an airsoft gun to practice concentrating on the front site, squeezing the trigger, and maintaining a good grip, please tell me how that would not translate over to being a better shot with a real gun?
I don't own any airsoft guns, but I do have a Baikal target-grade air pistol. Back when I had the spare time and the discipline to pratice with it in my basement, I not only became a much better shot with said air pistol, but the skills aqcuired tranlated quite nicely over to when I shot at the range with centerfire handguns.
If you have developed bad habits when shooting a real gun, sometimes it can be difficult to determine what they are by trying to self-diagnose when shooting a real gun. It's kind of difficult to tell if you were flinching, or anticipating the shot, or not following through when the thing in your hand is making a really loud noise and moving around a bunch. It's much easier to diagnose such problems when there is little or no recoil.
To that end, I fail to see how dry firing a pistol, shooting an airgun, etc. can improve one's skills with a real firearm, yet shooting airsoft can't.
What are a couple of ways that a person can improve their skills without spending money on ammo, and having to go to the range?
1)Dry-firing a real gun
2)Practice with an airgun firing lead pellets
3)Using an airsoft gun
If you are using an airsoft gun to practice concentrating on the front site, squeezing the trigger, and maintaining a good grip, please tell me how that would not translate over to being a better shot with a real gun?
I don't own any airsoft guns, but I do have a Baikal target-grade air pistol. Back when I had the spare time and the discipline to pratice with it in my basement, I not only became a much better shot with said air pistol, but the skills aqcuired tranlated quite nicely over to when I shot at the range with centerfire handguns.
If you have developed bad habits when shooting a real gun, sometimes it can be difficult to determine what they are by trying to self-diagnose when shooting a real gun. It's kind of difficult to tell if you were flinching, or anticipating the shot, or not following through when the thing in your hand is making a really loud noise and moving around a bunch. It's much easier to diagnose such problems when there is little or no recoil.
To that end, I fail to see how dry firing a pistol, shooting an airgun, etc. can improve one's skills with a real firearm, yet shooting airsoft can't.
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