AK-47 Defense Ammo? What do you recommend?

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Logistar

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I love my AK and it didn't take me long to realize it would make a much better defensive weapon than my handguns! (assuming I have it when I need it!)

I shoot it mainly for fun and use Wolf ammo 'cause it's cheap. In the first few hundred rounds I have had one failure to fire. The primer had a nice dent but no ignition. I have heard others say they occassionally have failures to fire with Wolf ammo.

If you use your AK-47 (7.62x39) for defense (or even if you don't) what round do you recommend for reliability and stopping ability???

THANKS!

Logistar

"OK Scum, EAT LEAD!" CLICK! Uh, excuse me why I try to load ANOTHER round... please...
 
Any hollow point should do it I dont know if soft points deform when feeding,in any event even though Im a hardcore AR guy I wouldnt want to be on the receiving end of an AK close up even with ball ammo,.30 cal.makes big holes.I have never had problems with wolf and I think winchester makes 7.62x39 but Im not sure what other MFGs make it.
 
I use plain jane Wolf JHPs. If they expand, great. If not then I at least have a nice caliber hole...well...30 nice caliber holes. :D

They cost about the same as the FMJ loadings and I know they are 100 percent reliable in my AK.


Good Shooting
Red
 
Here in Louisville, Wolf FMJ and JHP are the same price ($50/500 rounds). Other than the one round that didn't go off the Wolf ammo has been fine. Sounds like you guys think I should just stay with the Wolf JHP. I won't worry about it then.

(At least I can afford to buy plenty of it!)

Thanks BDM and Red!

Logistar
 
The AK is a bullet hose. If you're defending yourself with an AK, chances are you've got the bad guys out-gunned from the start. :) Any AK round will out-perform your typical defense handgun ammo, plus you've got 30 on tap. I don't think the difference between FMJ, JHP, and soft-points is so significant that it should be agonized over. They all make really ugly holes.

If you wanna split hairs, I guess soft-points would be the ticket. FMJ if you're expecting armored bad guys.
 
your welcome,glad I could help,I use wolf in my bushy AR never have a problem,I like the hollow points in .223 because I use a carbine so the rounds out of my piece will break up under 100 yds,with the hollow point the round will make more of an impact out to longer ranges,eventualy Im gonna get an AK,maybe one of those milled receiver bulgarian ones,they look sharp.
 
I failed to mention in my original post that I have only bought hollow points so far. When I hit the target, I want the energy deposited there plus there is less chance the bullet will do damage behind the target. (Sometimes bullets exit at odd angles! :what: )

BDM, I think you'd love an AK. (Everyone ought to have at least one!) I wanted an AR but it was gonna be a while before I could afford it so I bought an SAR-1. The cheap AK is a blast though. - Plenty for "defense" if I ever need it for that.

Boing, I am probably looking for maximum expansion (if I can get it). I will try to get (and keep) a small quantity of FMJ to keep on hand (maybe in 1 magazine) should I ever need penetration. I am not sure what the soft points would do for me other than be a compromise between the HP and the FMJ. I am thinking the HP would drop an enemy faster.

Thanks again.

Logistar
 
I have read informal test reports (backyard ballistic laboratories, etc...) that indicate bulk 7.62x39 JHP fodder (Wolf, for instance) reliably fails to expand. This is from more than one amateur source, but I've never tested it myself. Maybe it's BS. Commercial ammo made for hunting, or your own handloads using the proper bullets, will expand more reliably. You're getting into higher cost here to achieve reliable expansion. If it's worth it to you, then there's no problem.

Soft points don't rely on the narrow range of hydraulic dynamics that hollow points need to expand. The soft point might not expand as dramatically, but it's liable to expand more reliably.

If you're worried about over-penetration and injuring innocents beyond the bad guy, then a rifle is probably the wrong choice of arm in the first place.
 
If you're worried about over-penetration and injuring innocents beyond the bad guy, then a rifle is probably the wrong choice of arm in the first place.
Click to expand...
I won't shoot unless:

A. Target is positively identified and needs shooting. ;)
B. No innocents close to or behind Target.

Most likely, if using a rifle, I would be in rural setting. In town I would only carry handguns. (Kinda hard to walk around town carrying an AK! :what: )

Under stress, most anyone can miss with pistol, rifle or anything else. Or a bullet might overpenetrate even if it is not supposed to.

I still would prefer the bullet expand (if possible) and increase my odds of taking out the BG with one shot. Yes, I PLAN for overpenetration but I'd still prefer it didn't happen. (and if it does... with as little energy as possible.)

- Maybe I should check into soft points..... and while CorBons are not quite as cheap as Wolf ;) they might be more reliable. - something to think about.

Thanks!

Logistar
 
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I have an AK and have about 4 cases of ammo through it. I clean my AK faithfully with each new case of ammo. I have shot both Wolf ball and hollowpoint. Never had any problem with any ammo through the AK but my ammo has been either Wolf or Barnaul. Regarding the hollowpoints; that Wolf is such a shallow HP I never have noticed it opening up. The shape of the slug is nearly identical to ball ammo. I think it is like that to insure reliable feeding. If I wanted expanding ammo I would buy some hunting ammo for the AK. Incidentally, the Winchester 7.62x39 is repackaged Sellier & Beloit.
 
HP in 7.62x39 is NOT MEANT to expand. That little hole is for ballistic purposes.

I'll leave it up to others to explain the science behind this.

In my personal up front and personal experiences, anyone hit by a round of rifle ammo is gonna know they've been hit. Most will decide to retire at that point from the assault, there are very few heros left in this world, and if you encounter one, there's nothing you can do. Luckily, criminals are rarely heros.
 
I have a bunch of Wolf JHP for my AK. I've seen sectioned bullets from this ammo and there is a decent air gap under the HP before the lead core starts. I figure that even if it does not expand it should tumble pretty well.
 
My MAK is the downstairs, backdoor weapon and is loaded with the Wolf HP's.

Haven't fired anything else through it, and it's never failed to function as designed through roughly 2K rounds.

I've got to think that the HP will expand if it hits bone, and I've 30 rounds to see if I can find one...

Even if it doesn't, I should get 4.5579" of bleedout area, figuring 50% hits, and, if that doesn't do it, nothing I own will.
 
All of the Russian 7.62x39 hollow point that I have seen is lead cored, steel jacket ammo that is really FMJ with a little hole drilled in the end. Even with a hole in the nose, the steel jacket won't let the bullet expand, especially at AK velocities. The air pocket where the hole is may make the HP bullet tumble more quickly than the FMJ but I have not noticed any difference in effect on plastic gallon jugs filled with water. ( There is a DRAMATIC difference with 5.45 AK rounds.) I believe that the the "hollow point" Russian rounds are either a marketing gimmick or to allow importation as "sporting" ammo rather than "military" or, horror of horrors, "combat" ammo.

The Barnaul 7.62x39 soft points are a different story. They use copper jacketed, soft point bullets that really do mushroom at AK velocities. These are not high tech bullets. These will not put Barnes or Nosler out of business but they really do work and only cost about $10/M more than the ball ammo, if you can find some.
If you can get some and your AK will feed them reliably (mine do), I think that this is the best bet.

Drue
 
The beauty of the AK is that most people will just need to SEE it for their guts to turn to liquid excrement and forget about you. This is due to its reputation. People know that the amount of people killed by AKs might be able to circle the globe once or twice. I've had interesting results with the hollow point stuff. It got mixed into a mag with FMJ and while shooting, I suddenly see stuff flying into quite a bit more pieces than usual. Remove mag and check, and there's those hollow points I forgot about. Whether it will do so in flesh, who knows? But it certainly may cause the jacket to slip and cause tumbling. Or even see the jacket at the point bend over and cause tumbling.There is a contraption out there that is a jig that allows you to saw the tip of a 7.62x39 bullet off to make a flat meplat, but who knows if this is worth the effort? The 7.62x39 FMJ has killed plenty of folks, probably more so than any other caliber since 1960. A center mass hit does not guaruntee a combatant will go down, but in all likelihood, the first thought in his head, if he's still alive, is DOCTOR. A fast follow-up shot will probably settle the account once and for all.

The AK is a fine weapon. I own one and have converted a few folks to the AK. To me, it's everything I need it to be.
 
I was referring to Winchester FMJ 7.62x39 ammo. Two probably questionable sources; first, a wholesale ammo dealer at a gunshow who had both and recommended the S&B at a substantially lower price. He also said that the Winchester 9x18 was also S&B. Second source was on the Makarov (I think) gun forum.
 
That's pretty funny, considering that I've got several boxes of Winchester FMJ...

That have, of all things, "WINCHESTER" on the headstamp of each round. Now why would those silly Czechs go to all the trouble of putting a U.S. company's headstamp on their export ammo? :scrutiny:


My SLR-95 has one of it's home-defense magazines alternately loaded with Glaser Blue 130gr, and Federal 123gr softpoints. MagSafe also makes a prefragmented 7.62x39 round, if overpenetration is a concern to the AK owner.
 
Now why would those silly Czechs go to all the trouble of putting a U.S. company's headstamp on their export ammo?
Click to expand...
Dunno, but Winchester was able to convince the Israeli's to put "WCC" on their Q3131A 5,56x45mm.
 
Be carefull using commercial "sporting" ammo in your AK or SKS. The primer cups are much softer than those on mil-spec rounds and many folks have had instances of "slam fires" causing ADs, doubles and even full-goose R&R.

I stick with mil-spec commercial or surplus ammo in mine since an entire mag of Winchester SPs went down range from a single trigger pull of my Polytech SKS on one extremely memorable occasion. I save the hunting ammo for my Mini 30 now. No problems with it there.

FWIW, next time you run the bolt forward on a fresh mag in your AK or SKS, jack the round out and look at the primer. Bet you'll see a dimple on it. Polytech-made AKs with inertial FP are exempt.
 
Zip06, thanks for the reply. I had never heard of that before, and wondered where to check sometime.
TacticalForums has a few threads discussing the terminal ballistics of the 7.62x39 if you do a search in the Terminal Effects section. The Winchester SP load they make as well as the Laupa 125 gr load have generated very nice results. Some bit more down-to-earth discussions with gelatin results as one way to determine the best load rather than speculation of the aesthetics of the AK as a terminal solution.
 
HP in 7.62x39 is NOT MEANT to expand.
Click to expand...

You are correct, sir!

I refused to believe friends that hinted that those cheap Russian HPs don't expand... so I shot Playdough over and over (which is what I do to all new JHPs I acquire), then moved on to clay and finally water.
After 40 or so rounds total, I found not a single HP expanded as you'd expect a HP to expand. In every recovered jacket, the "hole" serving as the hollow point was still intact.

However, what I did find is that they appear to initiate tumbling sooner than your average FMJ 7.62x39 (Wolf & Norinco). The kinetic energy bleeds off as fragments of lead are forced from the base as the bullet yaws and bends. At close ranges, the jackets always seperated from what was left of the core, and in many cases were in more than one piece.

Many of the jackets that were ripped yet left in one piece showed obvious signs of being torn from the base forward, which led me to believe that once the bullet reverses orientation after beginning to tumble, the large exposed base reacts similar to a conventional HP, and violently expands.


So, though the HPs do not "expand" as one would expect, they do appear to "fall apart" rapidly after tumbling, thus possibly serving as a better defensive option.

These were my personal findings, YMMV.
 
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