Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

AK-47 How to make it more accurate?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by beeenbag, Feb 23, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. beeenbag

    beeenbag Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,005
    Location:
    Grayson, Ky
    I went to the gun shop today with a friend of mine and he is really interested in a romanian ak thats there. His only problem is the gun dealer told him it wasn't as accurate as the AR platform. He is on a bit of a budget but so thats why he doesn't want an AR. What are some mods he could do to this AK to help tune it in some. I know nothing about AKs so I'm sure this is the place to ask. Thanks
     
  2. mongo4567

    mongo4567 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2008
    Messages:
    649
    Don't believe everything a dealer says, you might find that some AKs are very accurate. They are like all guns, some more accurate than others. The milled receivers and new barrels tend to be very accurate. I haven't seen much help with tuning them except a better trigger or a scope; the short sight radius makes it very hard for some people to shoot them well.
     
  3. atlanticfire

    atlanticfire Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2007
    Messages:
    832
    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    An AK is just that an AK. It was never designed or meant to be a precision instrument. Get an AK shoot it a lot and have fun:evil:....now guys commence with the” you can do this with a Saiga” crap.:rolleyes:

    Very true, but they tend to be as expensive as an entry level AR...
     
  4. jpwilly

    jpwilly Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    3,892
    Location:
    Phoenix AZ
  5. beeenbag

    beeenbag Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,005
    Location:
    Grayson, Ky
    See I dont know what makes the AK "not accurate" so thats why I was asking. I didn't know if you could buy an after market barrel or tighter bolt assembly or what.
     
  6. schlockinz

    schlockinz Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2009
    Messages:
    416
    Location:
    Arkansas River or Green River
    how accurate do you need?
     
  7. beeenbag

    beeenbag Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,005
    Location:
    Grayson, Ky
    well im sure hes not gonna be varment hunting with it but his motive for buying the gun is to target shoot and home protection. Hope that helps.
     
  8. schlockinz

    schlockinz Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2009
    Messages:
    416
    Location:
    Arkansas River or Green River
    I don't see why a 2-3MOA ak wouldn't be acceptable. I hear that the saiga 223's are fairly accurate. That'd be about half the price and same ammo.

    Otherwise, look at the S&W M&P AR's, I've seen them in the 700 range lately
     
  9. jonnyc

    jonnyc Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2004
    Messages:
    2,318
    Location:
    SE Pennsylvania
    Want a more accurate AK? Design a better trigger, install better sights, and oh yeah...use a different cartridge. They are what they are.
     
  10. jpwilly

    jpwilly Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    3,892
    Location:
    Phoenix AZ
    What makes and AR accurate and an... AK not as accurate are very similar things so here we go:

    AR Free Float Barrel... AK Nope those handguards and gas tubes put different pressure points on the barrel.

    AR Bolt lockup square and true and repeatable... AK Nope that giant beefy reliable gas piston and bolt carrier group really slam and twist everything around shot to shot.

    AR Milled Reciever AK (Most) Stamped reciever and they do flex when fired.

    AR Great Trigger with aftermarket drop in...AK Good Trigger but still only a couple decent aftermarket ones out there.

    AR Great sights...AK Sights can get you Minute of Man not MOA.

    The AK is really accurate when you consider how unrefined the rifle is and how simple they are to build vs the AR. But when measuring accuracy in group size you need repeatability from shot to shot. Things need to be as consistant as possible for every shot and the AKM moves a little more and just isn't set up to be as accurate. But for what they were designed to do they do that job very very well.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010
  11. AK103K

    AK103K Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    5,773
    One of the biggest myths on the internet is, "AK's are not accurate".

    For the most part, they will shoot fine if your a capable shooter, and your realistic about what your shooting. If your looking for a bulls eye type target rifle, the AK probably isnt the best choice. If your looking for a rifle that will make good, COM hits on a man sized target out to 300 yards or so, it will do fine. Mount a red dot on one, low and up front on the gun, and it will keep up with all the other rifles with a red dot on them, and I think you'll find the hits on target are pretty much the same. Same goes for the iron sights on targets that dont have an aiming point.

    All you really need for the AK, is a good Russian sling, some decent mags, and a case or two of a decent lot of ammo. A good sight tool, like the one from B Square, is also a plus. If you have the extra money, a good red dot on an Ultimak rail is worth the extra, but by no means necessary.

    I have AK's from one end of the price scale to the other, and they all pretty much shoot the same. The ones that I troubles with, were ones made here from parts. That may have changed somewhat now, but personally, I'd prefer a gun that was originally made in the country of origin.

    Ammo can be an issue. Wolf is probably the worst, as it can be very inconsistent. Sometimes one lot will shoot great, while another lot will be terrible. You just never know until you shoot it. The old Barnaul, or one of the "Bears", which I believe is Barnaul in a new wrapper, are your best bet, and their soft points are usually the best of the lot.

    Generally, you should get 3-4" groups at 100 yards out of any of the rifles with ammo they like.
     
  12. schlockinz

    schlockinz Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2009
    Messages:
    416
    Location:
    Arkansas River or Green River
    What about the tech-sights peep sights? I like them on my norinco
     
  13. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Messages:
    11,109
    The best things you can do to improve the practical accuracy of an existing AK (as opposed to theoretical things you can do to the design):

    1. Get better sights. Tech sights or a RDS are good ideas.

    2. Get a good trigger. The Tapco G2 is a good trigger.

    3. Try different types of ammo to see what your gun likes. Often, a gun will group nicely with one type and shoot mediocre (or worse) with most everything else.

    Mike
     
  14. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2006
    Messages:
    8,374
    Location:
    Texas, baby!
    you really can't tune an ak , but I would def get one of these, then cowitness a scope or some type holo site, with a green laser.
    http://texasweaponsystems.com/

    nothing else is near as good, and nothing else will put a site, back by your eyesite, not mounted way forward., and nothing else will allow you to put to sites in the same line, on the same mount.

    all the stuff mentioned above will help with the feel and ergos, and therefore help accuracy a tad, but it is just a bit.

    Or forget all the above, and get a Saiga, galil, or tantal; but mostly a Saiga. they are moa capable,
    if you are good, and you get some ammo it likes.
     
  15. hank327

    hank327 Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2005
    Messages:
    393
    Location:
    North Texas
  16. Girodin

    Girodin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Messages:
    5,523
    First I would determine how much accuracy you need before you worry about it.

    One of the biggest limitations most AKs face is the crap ammo that people feed them. You can not shoot the cheapest ammo you find and expect to match rifles shooting high grade ammo.

    If you are going to shoot the AK with open sights, from field positions with wolf ammo the rifles mechanical accuracy is unlikely to be the weakest link in the chain.
     
  17. shephard19

    shephard19 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2009
    Messages:
    81
    The AR design does not lend itslef to the reliabilty of the AK design! ;)
     
  18. tkopp

    tkopp Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2009
    Messages:
    511
    I put a 1x scope on my AK and found that to be a great improvement over the iron sights. Puts me at about 3 MOA at 100y with surplus ammo. Honestly, working with a dot, I'm not sure if it's me or the rifle that's keeping me at 3 MOA. That's also about how accurate I am with my m1 carbine at 100y with its scope at 1x, so I assume I still have some room to get better.
     
  19. ChuteTheMall

    ChuteTheMall Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    110
    Location:
    Buried under the backstop
    Start with better ammo before investing in sighting systems; master the AK as it is before attempting to reinvent it.
     
  20. CZ223

    CZ223 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,672
    Maybe this will help

    Have your friend shoot an older Mini 14 before he shoots the AK. It won't make the AK shoot any better but, by comparison, he will be much happier.:D
     
  21. elmerfudd

    elmerfudd Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    1,463
    A typical AK with typical steel cased ammo can shoot about 4" groups at 100 yards. Most shooters aren't up to doing that with the stock sights however. AK sights aren't made for precision accuracy and very few American shooters know how to shoot well with iron sights.

    If you're like 90% of shooters, getting a good mount and a reasonably decent scope is the #1 thing you can do to improve your accuracy with an AK.

    You can also start out with a Saiga. They have consistently been my most accurate AK's. 2 MOA isn't an unreasonable expectation with one.

    Next is ammo. You can't expect to get good accuracy with cheap ammo. Accurate ammunition requires consistency and precision and that tends to cost money. If you buy an AK in a nontraditional caliber like .223, then that opens you up to buying match grade ammo over the counter. If you get a 7.62x39, then you'll have to roll your own for top performance. When you're going for accuracy, the right ammo makes a world of difference.

    Lastly, you should consider replacing the trigger. RSA makes a good unit and with a grinding and polishing, you can make a G2 shoot just as good as an RSA.
     
  22. AK103K

    AK103K Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    5,773
    This is your best bet.

    Learning its manual of arms, and becoming comfortable and experienced with the rifle, will make 99% of all other complaints go away.


    I tend to agree, and that goes for all types of iron sights too. Shooting realistically from field positions is another problem, but also a whole other story.

    I do find it interesting that the AK's iron sights are the same as most hunting rifles that still have them (and actually better than many), and the same as "most" military iron sights, yet they are somehow inferior. Yes, they may have a slightly shorter sight radius, but I have current commercial rifles with a similar sight radius, and I rarely hear anybody complaining about them.

    If you dont take the time and effort to learn to shoot properly, it doesnt matter what you have on the gun, or even what kind of gun you have, your results wont be all that good.

    All scopes do is let you see the target better. They dont make the gun shoot better, and in many cases, the scopes and their mounts can cause more aggravation than the gun itself.

    Red dots are not scopes. They are sort of an in between type sighting device. They simply take the alignment issue of the iron sights out of the equation and focus it onto one dot. Where they really shine is, they are very fast to use, and enhance the guns use in a more realistic manner. They usually do not provide results that are better than the iron sights, if you can shoot iron sights, as they usually offer a less precise aiming point.

    Adding peep or aperture sights to an AK may or may not help you. Personally, I dont think they are necessary, and in some cases, I think they just aggravate things.

    The Mojo type put the peep way to far forward to be used as a true peep. The couple of the rear mounted type I've seen, put them, or parts of how they attach to the gun to close to your face, which forces you to not mount or hold the rifle properly. You need to have your head down and forward to properly do so, with your nose at or alongside the rear of the top cover, which these type sights tend to interfere with.

    If you look at the "real" AK variants that have peep sights, they are mounted more forward on top of the cover. These are not some aftermarket thing either, but factory engineered and issued sights and do work. I believe Krebs has something similar, but no one else seems to want make the effort to take on the top cover.

    If you want to add a red dot to the AK, you have to make some serious decisions, and you may end up spending more than you paid for the rifle if you want something that works without making concessions.

    If you go cheap on the dot sight, its probably not going to last very long under moderate use. By cheap, I mean anything that isnt a mil spec type sight. In the long run, you'll end up spending more on the cheap sights that you will buying the better ones outright.

    The mounts are another issue, and everyone seems to have their favorite. The best I've found so far, has been the Ultimak rail that replaces the upper hand guard. Its well made and engineered, rock solid, and proven. It sits the lowest of any of the other mounts available, and allows you to cowitness your iron sights through the tube of the dot sight with the right dot/mount set up. The rifle shoulders and shoots just like it does with the iron sights, and you have the same cheek weld. This set up puts the dot low and out front, out of the way of your field of view, and out of the way of handling the gun. You also dont have to remove it to clean the gun.

    Most all the other rail or red dot type mounts position your head to high and to far rearwards to allow you to shoot the rifle naturally.

    Your going to have to decide what you want the rifle for, and what you can afford or are willing to spend if you want to go this route.

    Trigger wise, the best triggers are the original factory triggers(I dont mean the crappy US replacement parts). Next to them, the best I've found are the Red Star Arms. I have one of the Tapco G2 triggers in one of my guns, but its coming back out, as its worse than the Century trigger it replaced. I know a lot of people rave about the G2, and I probably just got a bad one, but if I decide to do it again, it will be another RSA trigger.

    Other than slap, I've never understood the complaints about the AK's trigger. Everyone I've shot, even the ones with slap, have been better than any of the stock AR/M16 triggers I've ever shot, and of all the AK's and AR's I have or have had, only one AR has had a nicer trigger, and thats because its a tuned match type trigger.
     
  23. MechAg94

    MechAg94 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2005
    Messages:
    4,732
    I would have to agree that the AK shoots as good as some other rifles that people don't complain about. The iron sights are just as good as the stock irons on many lever guns out there.

    With my Vepr or my Saiga, I can shoot 2 to 4 MOA groups all day long with just about any ammo I have. They are very consistent if not tack drivers. I am sure there are "bad shooting" AK's out there, but mine do okay on accuracy.

    Now when you start trying to shoot at 200 or 300 yards, the groups spread out a lot more, but they will with other similar ammo also.


    IMO, it depends a lot on how good you are with standard iron sights and what sort of accuracy you are expecting. If you go in wanting to same hole, you will be disappointed.
     
  24. TIMC

    TIMC Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    2,786
    Location:
    Texas
    It has all been said pretty well above. The AK like most other battle rifles is made to fair accuracy (minute of soldier) not moa and to funtion in adverse conditions of the battle field. There are exceptions but the AK is not one of them. I can easily hit a man size silhouette at 200 yards with mine but I am not exactly sure where on the target I will hit.

    To answer your question simply....
    Move closer to the target!

    If you want an accurate battle style rifle there are others out there much better suited for the job
     
  25. AK103K

    AK103K Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    5,773
    The real answer here is, if you want an accurate rifle, learn to shoot. If you havent already done that, it really doesnt matter what rifle you buy.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page