AK-47 How to make it more accurate?

[elmerfudd]

It does does it? Although I personally would say that the gun should be MORE accurate to help offset the human warfighter conditions cited, this begs the question: what assault rifle combination is LESS accurate than an AK?

I've owned FAL's that were less accurate than most of my AK's, although on average an FAL is probably slightly more accurate. In my experience, a typical FAL is about a 2-3 MOA rifle while a typical AK is about a 3-4 MOA rifle. Your average rack grade Garand isn't going to shoot much better than that.

It's also really not practical to expect much better accuracy than that on a large scale, since most military ammo isn't match ammo and never will be.

What makes more sense is to make the weapon itself easier to shoot accurately under bad conditions. Good ergonomics, adjustable stocks and optics are all things which will have much more impact than making the rifle itself slightly more accurate since we're talking a difference of maybe 2" at 100 yards. Even AK's are more than accurate enough to make head shots at 200 yards and torso shots out to 400. The main thing handicapping them isn't inherently bad accuracy, but inherently bad sights and bad ergonomics.

 

[sarduy]

AK-47 How to make it more accurate?

practice with it, the ak is more accurate than what you think... when you master (as in...hitting everything you shoot) the iron sights get a reddot or a scope.

 

[boricua9mm]

Don't shoot Wolf. Outside of that, you can experiment with different flash hiders, remove the flash hider altogether, and install a better trigger/give it a trigger job.

For what it's worth, I shoot Wolf almost exclusively, but I don't expect my rifle/ammo combination to do any better than minute-of-pie-plate.

 

[Al LaVodka]

...a typical AK is about a 3-4 MOA rifle. ...more than accurate enough to make head shots at 200 yards.

To make it more accurate? Avoid head-shots with a gun whose defender is happy with a 6" to 8" group at 200 yards. Who the heck's head are YOU thinking of, Mr. Mackey in Southpark!?

Al

 

[Orion8472]

Hehehe, Al. Yeah, that would make it better for us if insurgents had a Mr, Mackey head.

 

[d2wing]

3-4 moa is good for a headshot at 200 yards? Having been in combat, I could never find anyone willing to hold still while I waiting for a nice day to set a bench. The only head I saw that big was on a really big animal with tusks and a trunk.

 

[fireman 9731]

Ammo can make a big difference in AKs... try a lot if different ammo, my AK likes soft points, especially Silver Bear soft points. I get at least 1 MOA better with them than FMJs or Hollow points.

 

[winchester '97]

Tech sights plain and simple. It was designed to win battles and be extremely durable, not snipe people, its more than accurate enough to generate a torso shot at the distances most people can hit a man with irons. the reason people say the ak is so poor accuracy wise is the sights. put those same sights on you AR and see how you do.

 

[elmerfudd]

To make it more accurate? Avoid head-shots with a gun whose defender is happy with a 6" to 8" group at 200 yards. Who the heck's head are YOU thinking of, Mr. Mackey in Southpark!?

Perhaps you have a head much smaller than that, but most people don't.

http://www.dimensionsguide.com/size-of-a-human-skull/

Notice it's entirely consistent with what I said earlier, but then simply checking your hat size would have confirmed that, or maybe not...

 

[Al LaVodka]

So, would it be more like Barnaby Jones shuffling, or Canon rolling, out of their big cars, aiming their 2" barreled Detective Special at the fleeing badguy a footbal field away and shooting him in the leg? Or more like The A-Team, one of your favorites, where nobody ever actually got shot despite all the lead they were spraying!? This really big pistol you extol is just capable of head-size groups and you're recommending headshots at 200 yards. In a fight. I'm here to tell you...

Someone's been watching too much TV, and, it isn't me.

Al

 

[elmerfudd]

You seem to be the one bringing up TV shows. If you can't get reasonable accuracy out of an AK, the problem most likely lies with you.

Are they as accurate as an AR? No, and I never said they were. Are they accurate enough for killing people out to 400 yards? Yes, and there are millions of dead that confirm this.

 

[AK103K]

Someone's been watching too much TV, and, it isn't me.

That may be, but in the same vein, you must not be getting out with your AK to much.

If you can't get reasonable accuracy out of an AK, the problem most likely lies with you.

As it does with most things shooting related.



This was shot at 200 yards with an AK that is generally considered to be the bottom of the bucket as AK's go, a SAR1. Ammo used was Wolf, 154 grain SP's. The lower group was fired from a rest using the "slightly" canted iron sights to confirm zero, the upper group was fired from a cross legged sitting position at a fairly steady cadence.



This was shot at 100 yards, using a an AK from the other end of the price spectrum, a Krebs converted Saiga AK103K, with its 14" barrel and an Aimpoint with a 4moa dot, and again, from a cross legged sitting position.



The "head" on the targets are 6" across, in case you cant read the rule.

 

[Al LaVodka]

You seem to be the one bringing up TV shows. If you can't get reasonable accuracy out of an AK, the problem most likely lies with you.

Are they as accurate as an AR? No, and I never said they were. Are they accurate enough for killing people out to 400 yards? Yes, and there are millions of dead that confirm this.

Elmer, you are ignoring the point -- EVERYTHING is more accurate than an AK. And alot more people have been killed in war by disease and art'y -- how "accurate" are they? What's with the continued defense of these really big pistols!? I'm not knocking AK's for they are what they are, I'm just stating comparative facts vs. feelings and the defensive folks are making my point for me. I will concede the sights really suck -- I actually find them kinda insulting but I'm American so I also regret tens of millions of these POS's being handed out to every insurgent in the third world. Their prevalence doesn't make them good -- most voters liked Obama once too.

And, (not so) sadly, I don't have TV which is why I have to refer to hit shows from the '70's and '80's. Somehow I thought I needed to connect on a different level. If your life depended on a making a single 200 yard shot? Admit it! You'd pick up an AR, or anything else, before an AK if you were given the choice.

Al

 

[AK103K]

EVERYTHING is more accurate than an AK.

Your basing this on what? Not actual experience I have to assume.

If your life depended on a making a single 200 yard shot? Admit it! You'd pick up an AR, or anything else, before an AK if you were given the choice.

I have both, and I'd use either, without any hesitation. Then again, I actually own both, and shoot both, and I know what I personally can do with both.

Now if I'm going to shoot a "target" match for bulls eye score, I will take the AR over the AK, as its a whole different subject and use, as well as type of gun, and the AR I'd choose for that, would not be the same AR I'd choose to use in a fight (I have both of them too). My "target" AR shoots tiny little groups, my standard, red dot/iron sighted AR's, shoot very much like my red dot/iron sighted AK's, when shot the same way, and at the same targets.

 

[Al LaVodka]

Your basing this on what? Not actual experience I have to assume.



my standard, red dot/iron sighted AR's, shoot very much like my red dot/iron sighted AK's, when shot the same way, and at the same targets.

It is true, unlike perhaps yourself, I have not fired every make of gun in the world, but own more than most people and shoot more than most even know exist including full auto. To this day. Still, you got me. Well, maybe not -- you know what happens when you assume. Then you went and said that standard AR is as accurate as that AK and lost everybody, again. lol Yes, my mileage is different than yours...
Al

 

[jsamuel77]

I own a Vector Arms AK-47 that I have harvested several good deer with the last 2 years. I got better accuracy from this rifle by changing the "slant" type muzzle brake and going with the "birdcage" type common to the M16A1. It made a big difference in my shot groupings. (Half inch 3-shot groups at 50 yds.) I am using a 6X Leapers Mini Scope for sighting. Before the muzzle brake change it was hard to get a 3 shot group under an inch and a half. Understand, the AK-47 was designed to be an automatic rifle(firepower) with semi automatic capability. The AR was designed as a semi auto(accuracy) with automatic capability. Enjoy the AK.

 

[ol' scratch]

See I dont know what makes the AK "not accurate" so thats why I was asking. I didn't know if you could buy an after market barrel or tighter bolt assembly or what.

Loose tolerances are the main problem in the AK. It was made that way for a reason. You can pack it full of crap and it will still fire. If you found a tighter bolt assembly, you would still have the problem of barrel and receiver flex. Check out this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6BpI3xD6h0

Keep in mind that different people have different thoughts about accuracy. The AK is robust and as it has been put before accurate 'enough.' It is not an MOA rifle.

My advice is to purchase an AK and enjoy it for what it is. A word of warning. I owned a WASR and it was a POS. The sights were canted from the factory and I was constantly messing with it. It wasn't accurate even for an AK. I think part of this was because it was built by Century Arms.

 

[AK103K]

Then you went and said that standard AR is as accurate as that AK and lost everybody, again. lol Yes, my mileage is different than yours...

It appears that we do have different experiences, and I suppose a lot of that is how we shoot, and maybe some more of that, is what we are expectations are.

I dont shoot targets with real discernible aiming points, and I dont shoot off a bench. While I do shoot at targets, I rarely "target" shoot anymore, and most of it is more realistic in nature, than structured and scored. A good hit is a good hit, a bad hit, a bad hit. I'm lucky enough to have a range where I can do that. I know many dont have the luxury, and are forced to shoot and practice "unnaturally". Then again, maybe the way I shoot is unnatural to others here.

As I said earlier, when both rifles are equipped with red dots, and shot on the same course, in the same manner (generally standing, sometimes drop to sitting or kneeling, with the sling around my neck, and not used for support), the results on the targets with both rifles are very similar. Both have good "hits" in the same general area.

If I were to "target" shoot, I would not choose the AK, as its not a target rifle, nor am I claiming it is. I also would not choose my Colt SP1 or Armalite M15A4(C), or my Bushy Dissapator, as they are not target rifles either. My M15A4(T) is, and shoots like one, as do my NM M1A and match built M1. Then again, I would not choose any of the later, to shoot the way I do with my AK's, or SP1, or M15A4(C). Funny thing is though, when you feed those match guns GI ammo, and shoot them like the others, they too seem to shoot about the same as the "lesser" guns. Who on the internet would have thunk?

But hey, thats all just my experience, yours may well differ, and thats fine, we all need work somewhere. I know I do, but I keep at it.

 

[beeenbag]

I really didn't mean to start an AR vs. AK war. All I wanted to know was a website to a few cool add ons that might help accuracy. Im still watching the post if anybody has any ideas.

 

[bludog_3]

I got 2" groups with my Arsenal SGL-31 first time out shooting surplus military ammo with iron sights. Took bead on a whistle pig 75 yards out and cut him in two with one shot. An AK doesn't need to do much better than that. Oh, and by the way, put 165 rounds through it and no jams. AR's are great but I hate the double feeds...

 

[d2wing]

beeenbag, if there are any they are on here as far as I know. You might try a side mount red dot or scope. The top cover ones tend to move around. It's not going to ever be a tack driver.
I checked someones link to head sizes but that was only in gay european liberal measurement. As an American I have no idea what that crap is.
But I do know that 2 beer or soda cans side by side are about the size of a brain. Less on some guys of course. Like metric sizes. Anyway, if you put 2 beer cans in a bag,have someone hang it where you don't know where it is, have it swing behind rocks and brush. Then walk into the area and when you see it, shoot it by the count of two. That would be a more realistic idea of how effective your battle rifle is. Now even at a range offhand can you hit a pair of beer cans offhand at 200 yards at the count of 2, you are really good with any rifle. with a 4 moa rifle which is a spread of 8 inches, your odds aren't good even if you and the target are standing still in the open. It beats the heck out of throwing rocks though. Ak's a fun and reliable, deadly at close range as they were designed for full auto close range mass fire.
They are fun at the range and cool to have. If you learn anything about making it more accurate please report back.

 

[AK103K]

Until you can eliminate yourself as a component of any inaccuracy, you'll never achieve your goal.

Before you waste a lot of money on needless things, are you capable of shooting up to the rifle?

If not, then the best money spent would be to buy a couple of cases of ammo, and spend some "quality" time at the range in practice.

This really applies even if you are capable, just so you can become acquainted with a new rifle and how it shoots.

 

[sarduy]

Until you can eliminate yourself as a component of any inaccuracy, you'll never achieve your goal.

Before you waste a lot of money on needless things, are you capable of shooting up to the rifle?

If not, then the best money spent would be to buy a couple of cases of ammo, and spend some "quality" time at the range in practice.

This really applies even if you are capable, just so you can become acquainted with a new rifle and how it shoots.

+1

shoot the rifle untill you become one with the rifle... then and only then... you can say if you need more accuracy or not.

 

[sarduy]

i owned the ak first than my ar, and i can shoot the ak very good, but then i firs tried the ar, the sights were a little difficult to get use to, because i have used ak style sights all my life.

 

[Justin]

I've yet to see anyone run an AK-pattern rifle at any regional or national 3Gun match. At local matches, AK's show up sporadically, but don't play regularly.

Bear in mind that these matches are designed to test a shooter's skill under field conditions and do not have the same accuracy requirements of a purely precision-based shooting sport like High Power.

I suspect that if one were to put the effort into it, an AK could be massaged into being a reasonably field-accurate 200 yard rifle, but this would require at least the following changes: upgraded irons or optics (to include mounts), after market trigger, and most importantly, dumping the 3rd world military surplus ammo for American factory ammo or hand loads.

I don't know if those changes would push the cost of running an AK-pattern system up to the point where it would just be better to dump the whole thing and get an AR, but there you have it. Also, none of the above suggestions do anything to improve the AK's ergonomics, which are not very good.