ak-47 trigger problem

[shattered00]

SAR-1 AK-47 2001 w/ Tapco G2 Trigger (double hook).

So I installed the FCG per directions of http://www.gunsnet.net/Linx310/fcgremoval.htm.

Obviously I did something wrong, but for the life of me I can't determine what.

For those of you who don't remember, I was the dude who purchased a single hook instead of double hook. I also tried to place 5.56mm ammo in the magazine by mistake. Now that you have all been biased into having no confidence in me whatsoever (which was my intention), I need some aid once again. After a few grindings, a second slot formed in the receiver almost identical to the first but just a bit wider. I put the trigger in and took the gun out to "the country."

I don't know what to say, other than I have taken the trigger out and put it back in 4 times. Each time I carefully follow the directions. In between the total number of times, I had a friend follow the directions of the installation and observed how he did it (just in case I was misreading the directions). He did it exactly as I had. Either we are both morons (possible), or something is defective (not likely).

I will list the problems that I had when trying to fire the gun in hopes that someone can help me. I still haven't gotten to really shoot this gun (40 rounds with Century trigger) and I have had it for over 4 months now - very depressing.

First, whenever I pulled the bolt charger back, it hung on its way forward. I jiggled it and it slammed shut. I fired once. When I pulled the trigger again nothing happened. The trigger pull was a bit different as it did not move as far. After pulling it several more times the gun went off. Next I squeezed the trigger ONCE and two rounds fired. The first went off and as I was readjusting the stock in the groove near my shoulder, a second went off when my finger wasn't on the trigger about 2 seconds later. I noticed that I could push the trigger maybe a millimeter foward after it had fired and it would "lock" into place. Then I could fire again. Switching the gun to safe, I put it down while wondering what I could have done wrong this time. After garnering up enough courage (or allowing stupidity to take hold), I took the safety off. This is when I realized the magnitude of the problem. I cannot emphasize enough that my finger was not on the trigger nor was it possible for me to pull the trigger at this point. I had the butt of the gun pushed against my thigh as I stood up with the gun pointed toward the target. I held the lower handguard with my left hand, and pushed the safety to fire mode. A round then fired and the bolt charger slammed into my thumb cutting it open. With the skin hanging off the charger handle, I then put the gun back on safe and removed the magazine. I then took the safety off to remove the last cartridge in the barrel and this time the gun didn't go off. I removed it with a huge padded glove which made me look like I was working with some kind of barbed wire or something hhaah.

Now that the boring story is over, are there any suggestions. I now have a digital camera so I can take clearer pictures than I could with the webcam. Please aid me in getting this gun to work. I usually tolerate most of my screw-ups well, but this is becoming quite taxing on my mind.

I would hate to take it to a gunsmith and shell out the money I don't have - still haven't gotten a job 3 weeks after graduation. Clarification: I still haven't looked for a job ahah. Thanks for any help.

 

[PAC 762]

Is the hammer in correctly? The wider tabs should be towards the rear of the receiver.

 

[clange]

Take some pics of the FCG in the receiver and we'll go from there. I cant really understand whats going wrong from your post, it sounds like a bunch of different things, but if you get some good pics of the inside we'll get it straightened out for you.

still haven't gotten a job 3 weeks after graduation. Clarification: I still haven't looked for a job ahah. Thanks for any help.

Better start looking or you'll end up like me, over a year out with no real job.

 

[BevrFevr]

monster.com

I posted a res on there and got a call the next day. been working ever since. it was pretty painless.

 

[shattered00]

pictures

Alright, the first pic is of me pulling back the charging handle and releasing it, only to find the bolt carrier stuck. Sometimes this happens, and other times it doesn't.

The second pic is with the hammer cocked. I had the gun together and then pulled the charging handle back so to mimic how it really looks when I am about to fire. When I use my hand to push the hammer down it goes down even further and locks under the sear sometimes. Other times, the hammer slams back up all the way. The spring is in the hole for sure though.

The third pic is with the hammer uncocked.

Any clues? If you need more pics just ask. Thanks.

Oh and thanks for the monster.com suggestion.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

The hammer spring can be tricky. I've installed two trigger groups and each time, I got the hammer spring in wrong the first time and was glad I had another AK to look at or I might still be trying to get it right. Even once you get it wrapped around the hammer correctly, you still have to make sure the ends are on top of the trigger. I accidentially put them underneath once and it caused a problem that sounds similar to what you describe--I pulled the trigger once then it essentially stayed back and refused to reset, limiting its movement. You might also want to check and make sure the disconnector is installed correctly and the disconnector spring is both present and installed correctly.

Sorry if these are stupid suggestions that you've already done a million times. I really am trying to help.

 

[clange]

EDIT: I think I see the problem. It looks as if the trigger is hitting the receiver at the front. You either need to dremel down the front part of the trigger, or dremel out the front of the trigger hole in the receiver (I'd do the trigger). Hopefully, that fixes the problem. If not, continue reading. I'll leave my troubleshooting stuff I already typed below, in case it doesnt work, but I suspect thats the problem.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Alright, the first pic is of me pulling back the charging handle and releasing it, only to find the bolt carrier stuck. Sometimes this happens, and other times it doesn't.

Does this happen when you just pull it back and let it go? If you pull the carrier back all the way and let it go, it should slam forward. If you slowly let it forward, it can catch on the hammer. Thats normal, but it shouldnt get hung up if you let it go from the rearward position.

The second pic is with the hammer cocked. I had the gun together and then pulled the charging handle back so to mimic how it really looks when I am about to fire. When I use my hand to push the hammer down it goes down even further and locks under the sear sometimes. Other times, the hammer slams back up all the way. The spring is in the hole for sure though.

Ok, do some tests for me. Take the top cover off so you can see the FCG.

1) Pull the trigger and get the hammer to rest on the back of the bolt carrier. Without touching the trigger, rack the carrier back and see if the hammer catches under the hooks of the trigger. Do this a dozen times or so, at speed like the gun fired, and make sure it catches every time.

2) Again, start with the hammer resting on the bolt carrier. Pull the trigger and hold it to the rear. While you're holding the trigger back, rack the carrier and make sure the hammer is caught by the disconnector (what you called a sear). Still holding the trigger back, the hammer should be caught by the disconnector, then let the carrier slam forward. The hammer should still be held by the disconnector. Now, release the trigger while watching the hammer. It should slide from under the disconnector and get caught by the trigger hooks. Do this like a dozen times as well.

3) With the top cover off, and the bolt carrier and recoil spring removed, place the hammer under the hooks and the selector to safe. Move the selector to fire, while watching the tab of the selector. You want to make sure the selector isnt hitting something, and in effect pulling the trigger. I cant imagine how this would happen, but you said it fired when you moved the selector. Just move it from safe to fire, and back, a few times and make sure the hammer never falls.

If theres a problem anywhere in there (there has to be, or your rifle would funtion) tell me where it happens.

 

[Coronach]

I just replaced the FCG group in my SAR-1, but didn't experience these problems. Needless to say this is not normal. Off the top of my head, I dunno what is wrong.

What MIGHT be normal is the bolt "hanging up" on the hammer. It should never hang to the rear if racked hard (pulled back fast and just let fly), but if you baby it a little it might hang up every time. That is not unusual. AKs are built that way.

Mike

 

[ARperson]

When you first started your story of mishaps I was going to say that you've just purchased one of those "rare" single shot AKs. My SAR1 was notorious for not cycling completely. Even the force from firing a round wasn't enough to let it slam home all the time. And your first couple of sentences made it sound like you have one of those rough machined receivers; and the failure to return to battery could have meant a failure of the trigger to reset.

But your other problems pretty much eliminated the above as a possibility. Correction: you still might have this problem, but it's the least of your concerns right now.

Aside from incorrect trigger install (do you have another AK to compare yours to), clange's trouble-shooting activities should at least identify what, if anything, is operating incorrectly. Once you figure that out, it should be fairly easy to figure out if it's an installation issue or a manufacture issue.

 

[clange]

Here.

 

[shattered00]

Okay I did the steps. First off, I was riding the bolt carrier back instead of letting it slam, so that problem (bolt carrier hanging up) has disappeared. However, both steps 1 and 2 that you told me to do failed.

#1: When racking the carrier at "gun shooting" speed, the hammer fails to connect under the disconnector every time. When I go a bit slower it catches though.

On number 2, the trigger is held by the disconnector but as soon as I release the carrier to slam forward, it remains held by the disconnector and not the trigger hooks. When I tap the butt of the gun against something or tap the side or the receiver, the hammer fires instead of getting caught by the trigger hooks.

Number 3 worked fine. It doesn't seem that the safety is hitting the back of the trigger where the hammer springs are.

I will dremel that part down that you showed. Thank you for the help. I hope this works so I may finally enjoy this gun ahah.

 

[clange]

Okay I did the steps. First off, I was riding the bolt carrier back instead of letting it slam, so that problem (bolt carrier hanging up) has disappeared. However, both steps 1 and 2 that you told me to do failed.

#1: When racking the carrier at "gun shooting" speed, the hammer fails to connect under the disconnector every time. When I go a bit slower it catches though.

On #1 the trigger should be forward, so the disconnector shouldnt be involved at all. This sounds about right though if the trigger was stopped from going fully forward by the receiver. The disconnector would be slightly in the way, but not far enough to always catch.

On number 2, the trigger is held by the disconnector but as soon as I release the carrier to slam forward, it remains held by the disconnector and not the trigger hooks. When I tap the butt of the gun against something or tap the side or the receiver, the hammer fires instead of getting caught by the trigger hooks.

And if the trigger isnt all the way forward, the hooks of the trigger may not catch the hammer.

Filing the trigger to clear the receiver should get it working.

 

[mndfusion]

When you put a double hook in a Romanian you need to dremel a slot for the other hook to rotate.

If you look at the bottom of trigger slot in reciver you will see one side has a cut out for the singe hook, just duplicate that to the other side with a file or whatever if you havent.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

When you put a double hook in a Romanian you need to dremel a slot for the other hook to rotate.

If you look at the bottom of trigger slot in reciver you will see one side has a cut out for the singe hook, just duplicate that to the other side with a file or whatever if you havent.

Yup. The SARs take single-hook triggers, unless you modify the receiver.

 

[Raygun]

That's the first thing I thought of when I started reading this thread. My SAR-1 has a single hook trigger and the double hook might be the issue on your rifle.

 

[clange]

He said he already did that.

He actually posted a thread about buying the wrong trigger awhile ago and decided to cut the receiver to take the double instead of exchanging it, so that was a known issue.

 

[Raygun]

Ah. Didn't see that.

 

[MartinS]

When I put a G2 single hook in my SAR 1 there turned out to be interference between the trigger and receiver, as clange said. Trigger didn't swing forward enough to reset. I took a little off the front of the trigger just where it touched the receiver and it works fine. Don't remove too much.

 

[Coronach]

Perhaps try putting in just the trigger and see if it has a full and unimpeded range of motion? He could have not made the second hook cut properly, or there could be another problem, like MartinS mentioned.

Thanks, Shattered00. I fumbled for a while with the silly Shepherd's Crook, but now you're making me feel like a gunsmithing god.

Mike