True-to-life AD

[General Geoff]

So an old friend of mine who joined the navy over a year ago came home on leave for a week. We decided to go shooting yesterday, and he brought two guns: a Marlin semi auto .22, and an old Remington 700 chambered for .30-06.

We were plinking for awhile with our .22s, and he decided to break out the big 700. Took it out of the case, removed the bolt, inspected the bore, put the bolt back in, cycled the bolt, and put five rounds in. Cycled the bolt again to chamber a round, and tried to pull the trigger.

It wouldn't budge.

After confirming the safety was OFF, he pulled again; the trigger stayed stationary. At that point I came over to see what was wrong. He handed the rifle to me (all the while with the rifle pointed safely downrange), and I tried pulling the trigger. It wasn't moving a millimeter. I rotated the bolt handle up about a half inch and jammed it back down stiffly, and tried pulling the trigger. Nothing. After looking at the gun quizzically for a few seconds, BOOM!

The gun had fired without so much as a finger inside the trigger guard. Freaked us both out something fierce; fortunately the round went downrange and into the hillside. Thinking it was a horrible fluke, I cycled the bolt again, jamming the bolt handle down hard like I did last time. I didn't even attempt to pull the trigger. BOOM again, maybe 4 seconds after I took my hand off the bolt handle. Again, the rifle was pointed in a safe direction (downrange). Still scared the bejeezus out of us.

I have no idea what caused these true-to-life ADs, but after we pulled the bolt out of the gun, we removed the remaining cartridges from the bottom of the mag well, and put it back in its case. He's taking it to a gunsmith this weekend, I'll let you know what it ends up being.

My hypothesis is a worn sear, but I could very well be wrong. Any other comments/questions are welcome.

 

[CypherNinja]

Obviously, the gun is haunted.

 

[PotatoJudge]

With any luck it just needs a good cleaning, though there are other (more expensive) posibilities. Might be the last owner was a big fan of WD-40.

 

[Waffen]

I'd take that trigger off and strip it down all the way. Clean it out and put it back together. I'd be suprised if the sear was actually worn down. To me it sounds like a problem with the sear spring or a problem with the other spring that controls pull weight.

Edit: Try removing the safety, ball detent, and the pin that holds the safety in and see how it functions without those componets.

 

[General Geoff]

Needn't worry about cleaning it, she was clean as a whistle when we loaded her up. It used to be his granddad's gun, and it hadn't been fired in a couple of years. Not sure what (if anything) he had on/in it to keep from corroding, but I'll ask him later.

 

[kcmarine]

Didn't the 700 have an initial design defect that allowed firing without the trigger being pulled?

 

[rockstar.esq]

I've experienced the results of a "trigger job" done to a 700 that turned the safety into the trigger. I'd take it to a smith and see what needs doing. The up side is that the 700 is pretty common and parts will be easy to come by.

 

[lamazza]

You may have finally found the gun that all the antis are talking about-The evil gun that kills people all by itself.

 

[antipop]

Your gun is under the hypnotic spell of James Brady. It will now fire Nerf darts, and use Pixie-Stix as powder.

 

[bensdad]

Clearly, this gun is unsafe. It is obvious to any rational person that all Remington 700 rifles should be banned. It's just common sense. This rifle and all others are nothing more than accidents waiting to happen. The streets will run with the blood of our children if we don't do something now.

O.k., seriously... Waffen gave good advice, but it's only good if you know what you're doing inside that gun. Otherwise, take her to a smith. A trigger that is unpredictable for one reason may become unpredictable for a different reason if the wrong person gets in there and starts turning screws.

 

[Gearhead Jim]

The Remington 700 trigger system sometimes does strange things, much more so than other brands.

 

[JohnL2]

Send it back to Remington. Have them take a look at it.
I've always been leary of Remingtons.

 

[Mr White]

If he was messing with the three adjustment screws and didn't know what he was doing, he could have caused this AD. if the sear engagement screw is adjusted too far out, it can cause the gun to fire if the bolt is slammed shut too hard.

If it was my gun, I'd tighten the adjustment screws in all the way and work them back out a little bit at a time, with an empty gun. There is a trick in getting a good trigger adjustment on a 700. It took me awhile until I figured it out.

 

[K-Romulus]

Remington 700 had a recall a few years back

From Remington: http://www.remington.com/safety/safety_center/safety_modification_program/model_700.asp
(Can't cut and paste from there while at work)

From CBS news (more links on page):
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/07/17/eveningnews/main301947.shtml

Fixing A Fatal Flaw

WASHINGTON, July 17, 2001(CBS) Had he lived, Gus Barber would have turned 10 years old this week. CBS News told you his story last February, just months after his mother's Remington Model 700 rifle discharged and struck him in the stomach.

For Barb Barber, it is a moment stuck in time.

"I pulled the safety off and it fired. The gun went off. My finger was nowhere near the trigger. I had an open hand," she recalled.

Gus bled to death that winter day and one family's tragedy might have gone down as just another tragic gun accident until a curious thing happened, reports CBS News Correspondent Jim Stewart. One by one the Barbers' Montana neighbors reported that they, too, had experienced accidental discharges with Remington Model 700s. People like Sheriff T. Larson.

"Took off the safety and the gun discharged," said Larson.

Always, victims mentioned the gun's peculiar safety and trigger mechanis.

"I just went to take off the safety off and it fired," said Erin Noreen.

And when Rich Barber contacted the national news media, he learned the problem wasn't just in Montana. Very quietly, Remington has settled dozens of lawsuits arising from the Model 700.

Even in its internal memos, which were an exhibit in one lawsuit, Remington acknowledged that some of its early Model 700 rifles could be "tricked" into firing.

And the complaints just keep piling up, says Missouri attorney Rich Miller.

"At last count we had over 1,500 customer complaints of similar malfunctions."

And hunters and consumers had even more questions after CBS News aired the Barbers' story. So many, that the Consumer Federation of America made copies of the story and passed them out on Capitol Hill.

"What struck me was that the Barber family tried to reach out, tried to find some sort of remedy. If this were any other consumer product, if this were Firestone tires for example, there would be absolute outrage," said Sue Peschin of the CFA

And in Montana, Thomas Baumeister of the state Fish, Wildlife and Parks Department was worried, too.

He wrote Remington, citing the CBS News story, and asked for an explanation. Remington wrote back and said the death of Gus Barber was a "terrible accident." The company urged Model 700 owners to always obey firearms safety standards and "keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction."

Which to Rich Barber suggests his family is to blame and not a faulty firearm.

When confronted with the statement that a lot of people are going to think that Rich Barber is just another gun nut, just another person out to get the guns, he replied, "That's just the furthest thing from the truth because I don't plan on giving mine up anytime in the future. This is not an anti-gun issue. This is a good safety issue. End of conversation."

But not the end of the story. The Barber family tragedy has become Exhibit One in a bill now before Congress that would regulate firearms like any other consumer product. It is opposed by the gun lobby and has little chance of passage this year. But it has been assigned to a committee that meets this Thursday — on Gus Barber's birthday.