AK 47 versus MINI 14

[benEzra]

Which at the time was made up of poor ignorant farmers. Watch any special with M. Kalashnikov in it, he himself said he the army wanted something simple in design that even a idiot couldn't break.

Might want to read up on your Russian World War II history a bit. The WWI Russian Army under the czar was indeed largely uneducated-peasant. The Soviet Army in 1947 or 1949 most assuredly was not.

FWIW, would you consider Vasily Zaytsev, Simo Häyhä, and Carlos Hathcock "peasants"? All three were from rural areas in their respective countries, but none of them were uneducated, and they all darn sure knew their way around a rifle.

I'm sure Mr. Kalashnikov did want the rifle to be idiot-proof. There was, and is, a percentage of idiots in the Russian military, just as there is in the U.S. military. But that doesn't mean idiots are anything but a small minority in either case.

lol, its refreshing to see someone not tiptoe around the touchy subject of just how bad the ak's really are.

ive never personally seen one group well enough to even shoot on the hundred yard line, unless hitting the paper is good enough.

at 200 and up, forget about it.

You've never shot one, I take it.

The AK is an easy rifle to shoot badly, partly because the can't-stay-on-paper-at-200 myth is self-fulfilling (if you don't shoot it like you expect to get 4 MOA out of it, then you most assuredly won't), and partly because the iron sights truly aren't as good as those on an AR or a Garand (although they are better than the factory sights on the pre-580 series Ranch Rifles, IMO).

But if you take a solid position (NOT resting on the magazine or the barrel), focus hard on the front sight like you're supposed to, take your time like you're supposed to, squeeze the trigger like you're supposed to, and follow through like you're supposed to, an AK will shoot like a Winchester M1894, which it ballistically resembles. And sticking an optic on the built-in optics siderail (that's what it's there for!) makes the issue sights a non-issue anyway; the irons are just BUIS on my carbine.

OTOH, the AK is fun on full-auto even if you just light up dust clouds all around the target at 100 yards and nothing else. It will give him a heart attack and maybe kill him from that, unless he is a zombie, in which case, he will continue to advance until you put 1 in the head.

Most of us won't be using full-auto, because most of us don't have $17,000+ to drop on a transferable pre-1986 NFA Title 2 restricted AK-47.

A civilian semiauto AK can make head shots on zombies at 100 yards, though...

Mine does a little better than 12MOA. Target was shot at 100 yards with iron sights. The grid is 1". The post-it was the aiming point but the rifle wasn't zeroed for the muzzle device that was on the rifle at the time, hence the change to POI. The rifle is an Arsenal SLR107FR. BSW

Briansmithwins, what ammo were you using, and what was the muzzle device?

Small Arms Review had an article on AK accuracy in the December 2008 issue, and they found the slant brake increased group size by 50% or so, IIRC.

thought ruger re-tooled all threre machines to improve there accuracy?my new mini's barrel looks allot different than my old mini.

They did. The new-manufacture 580-series mini-14's are reported to be considerably more accurate than the older models. (My 5.5-MOA Ranch Rifle was a 1989-ish 188-series.)

 

[NC-Mike]

I've owned both at one time. A WASR 10 and 183 series mini.

I sold the mini and now have 4 AKM type rifles. My Romak-1 will outshoot a mini all day and the barrel won't droop after I shoot 10 rounds.



Mini-owners, can you say Vertical Stringing?



I knew you could...

 

[briansmithwins]

Ammo was Yugo M67 ball and I had a thread protector on. I also tried the AK74 brake and flash hider (24mm threads). The brake was a little worse than the nut, while the flash hider was the worse.

Changing muzzle devices did cause a significant change to the POI. BSW

AK74 brake(bored out to ~10mm)


Flash hider.

 

[FMJMIKE]

The AK is a better battle rifle. The Mini-14 is a better hunting rifle. I own both!!!

 

[lionking]

Did this at 100yds a couple years back before I started using SR1 targets.I guess each square on that Hoppes target is a inch?Is it as accurate as a AR? typically no although a couple weeks ago I had a bad day with a Colt H-Bar that didn't show better groups than this but it was a bad day because I have gotten much tighter groups with the AR-15 before although using the small peep is better.

AK?I did 5 shot groups that with more premium brand ammo produced 5 to 6 inch groups while bargain brand ammo was spread all over.I am planning on redoing a AK ammo test with 10 shot groups to come toa more definative conclusion.

Krokus posted his AR in 7.62x39mm which produced pretty tight group but not as a good as 5.56mm can do based on the one photo he submitted.As far as my target below showing the Mini 14 I am satisfied with that,If I can nail a empty propane tank at 100yds consistently with it that is all I can ask for.

AK or Mini 14,thry are both fun,and reliable.It is personal taste.If you are looking for a rifle that will withstand real extended mud,sleet,rain and snow conditions and fire 1000 rounds non stop in combat conditions maybe a AK is better suited but for typical needs I don't think a Mini 14 is that bad,except with USA brand magazines.

 

[benEzra]

Ammo was Yugo M67 ball

briansmithwins, you might want to try a box of Wolf 154-grain softpoints, or even some Wolf 122gr JHP (black box) or Wolf Military Classic 122gr JHP (tan box, made in Serbia by Prvi Partizan AFAIK), just to see if your results are the same. That kind of dispersal looks like mine shooting 1980's/early 1990's Norinco.

A lot of people have reported that the Wolf 154's are the most accurate of commonly available ammunition, but I haven't had the opportunity to try any yet. But in my experience there is also a lot of variation in the 122/123 grain stuff. In that weight range, I've had good results with both Wolf and Barnaul.

 

[briansmithwins]

My best group with the Yugo M67 was 2MOA using my SKS. I have gotten better groups with the AK, I just don't have pictures of them.

BSW

 

[notorious]

Most of us won't be using full-auto, because most of us don't have $17,000+ to drop on a transferable pre-1986 NFA Title 2 restricted AK-47.

A civilian semiauto AK can make head shots on zombies at 100 yards, though...

I don't have $17,000 either but I did get to shoot a few mags off a confiscated full-auto AK which was in ATF custody. They had a nice inventory of confiscated weapons and we got to play with some. The full-auto Mac10 was fun too but that cyclic rate was way too high!

 

[Ignition Override]

Other than having large reliable mags, what does a Mini 14 need to become a combat rifle, using only iron sights?

 

[notorious]

Other than having large reliable mags, what does a Mini 14 need to become a combat rifle, using only iron sights?

Reliability comes to mind. Also, a handguard so the soldier doesn't burn his hand on that long exposed barrel like I did.

 

[Ignition Override]

Other than many aftermarket (or Ruger) magazines, what function(s) on the Mini 14 could make it reliable enough to work in combat, or could it have such potential?
I'm not young, but kind of new with guns. Those hot barrels can be viscious and was sorry to finally read about that encounter.

 

[SHvar]

Several special forces units in the US all had mini-14s in their armories, yes in select fire (stainless steel, wooden stock, folding stainless steel wire stock, flash hider, and bayonet lug). These units used them as an option, and relied upon them. Several police departments countrywide since the early 80s have had the mini-14 in use, and have never had a problem with them.
I have had a mini-14 for many years, it was suggested by a friend from my army days who has had 3 of them for many years beforehand, and several ARs.
I dont see how someone who has never owned a mini-14 and experienced its reliability firsthand could come up with any stories against them.
Yes, they are not super accurate on follow up shots at distance, but they will fire and not quit.
I would be skeptical of anyone saying that a mini-14 will not make it through a shooting course, sounds like a load of stinking crap. The only problem that Ive have ever seen first hand with any mini-14 is with the wooden stocks. Some of them had a problem with the trigger assembly coming loose because the stock was not cut or fitted properly, in which case you buy a cheap synthetic stock and the problem is solved.
I hope anyone who is reading this post for the information realizes that there are individuals who post insults and myths about certain firearms based in no factual evidence only because they dont like a certain firearm, no other reason.
I dont like AKs in particular, but I recognize that they are the most widespread automatic rifle the world over, and made to function through almost any torture you can put them through.
I certainly wouldnt make up stories about a firearm I dont particularly like being supposedly unreliable, that would be lies.
Simply put, unless you block the barrel on a mini-14 it will always function. If you oil a few moving parts on a mini-14 it will stay cool, and fire forever, Ive never seen a reason to use anything aside from a little oil, ever.

 

[notorious]

The select fire Mini-14 was made with the folding stock which was a pain to use and from what I recall, it never caught on too well.

It did look very neat though... I think it was called the Mini-14SP or some other acronym.

 

[pgeleven]

That guy's fly is unzipped

busted gazing!

the one thing i have noticed that both of those weapons have in common, is that they are only as reliable as the magazine. my good friend had a mini-14 that jammed almost every 4th round or so, until he bought Eagle mags, and has not had a jam since. when i bought my AK (WASR-10), i was having constant feeding problems, until i bought another mag, now i havent had a jam in at LEAST 600 rounds. they will both do you well, but if you want to go for accuracy, go for the Mini-14 IMHO

 

[cane]

The select fire Ruger Mini-14 was called the Ac-556, with the 13" barrel and the folding stock was the AC-556K.

 

[NC-Mike]

The select fire Ruger Mini-14 was called the Ac-556, with the 13" barrel and the folding stock was the AC-556K.

From what I've read, the reliability of that configuration was in question.

 

[expvideo]

It's only true role in this world is to give people who have too many guns something to complain about.

ROFL. That is one of the most quoteable lines I've seen in a while.

Anyway, I'd take the AK any day. The mini-14 is much prettier, but pretty doesn't make a battle rifle. It's only really around because it is the least "assault rifle" looking semi-auto on the market.

 

[expvideo]

I'd rather have the Mini, as it's produced by a reputable American company that is well known for excellent customer service and stands behind its products (although you'll probably never even need Ruger to stand behind any of its products, since Rugers are typically built tough as tanks.)

That's funny right there, I don't care who you are!

Kalashnikov rifles are argueably the second most reputable product in the world, second only to Pepsi.

 

[H2O MAN]

The Mini-14 is what it is, but given the choice I'll take the 7.62x39 AKM

 

[ndh87]

I traded my Mini 14 for an AK

Would do it again in a heart beat

 

[briansmithwins]

I'd rather have the Mini, as it's produced by a reputable American company

Is this Ruger we're talking about? The same Ruger that backed the AWB as long as his 'sporting' rifles weren't included? The same Ruger that has consistently refused to sell standard capacity mags for those same rifles to anyone that's not LEO?

I agree that Ruger has a reputation, just not that it's a real good one. Selling Mini-14 mags to us peasants now doesn't make up for their previous policies in my book.

BSW

 

[Dr.Rob]

Every mini I've fired is guilty of vertical stringing after a few shots. After 5 shots that barrel gets HOT.

Well any rifle gets hot if you're fast on the trigger, but the AK style rifles seem to deal with heat better.

Mini has a better safety and trigger. Good magazines are hard to find.

 

[22lr]

MINI-14. Im not a AK fan at all. They rank bottom in my list of want to have guns.

 

[22lr]

@brian

So um most AKs are made by a communist country that doesn't even allow guns. Fouled logic man. I love Ruger products and as long as they sell guns ill be buying them.

 

[notorious]

Yeah, Bill Ruger's politics aren't the best but I have bought quite a few of his guns lately. What can I say, sometimes you just gotta have that 10/22. I caved in after 20 years of shooting and got one.