AK 47 versus MINI 14

[benEzra]

So um most AKs are made by a communist country that doesn't even allow guns. Fouled logic man. I love Ruger products and as long as they sell guns ill be buying them.

No current U.S.-imported AK's are manufactured in communist countries, and many of them are NATO members. UNLIKE most of the stuff people buy at Wal-Mart.

And unlike Ruger, the eastern European AK manufacturers are happy to make rifles with bayonet lugs, threaded muzzles, protruding handgrips, and 30-round magazines for the "little people," where we are still allowed to own them.

Ruger has been moving in the right direction on this (they now sell 20-rounders, for example), but they still have a way to go. And they still won't sell you a spare firing pin unless you game the system.

 

[Travis Bickle]

Sure, it looks like a tiny M14, but that doesn't mean it is one.

Well, it is one. Aside from the fact that it's smaller and chambered for .223, there is absolutely no difference that I am aware of, mechanically, between the Mini and M-14.

The only "forces" that have ever adopted the Mini 14 are some police units and the world renowned "Bermuda Regiment".

That's because the AK had already filled the Mini's niche and did it for a fraction of the price, not because the Mini is a poor combat weapon.

 

[briansmithwins]

Well, it is one. Aside from the fact that it's smaller and chambered for .223, there is absolutely no difference that I am aware of, mechanically, between the Mini and M-14.

Differences between the Mini-14 and the M14:

1) Self regulating gas piston on M14 vs Mini-14's fixed piston and moving cylinder.
2) Gas block attached with splines to barrel on M14 vs Mini-14's screws.
3) Gas cut off valve of M14 is missing from Mini-14.
4) USGI M14s have chromed bores. Not an option for Mini-14.
5) M14 has butt trap for cleaning kit. This is made of steel in case you need to break something with the rifle's buttstock. Mini-14 buttplate has no trap and is plastic.
6) Roller on the M14's bolt. Mini-14 is missing this feature.

There are some differences between the 2 rifles.

 

[Travis Bickle]

Differences between the Mini-14 and the M14:

1) Self regulating gas piston on M14 vs Mini-14's fixed piston and moving cylinder.
2) Gas block attached with splines to barrel on M14 vs Mini-14's screws.
3) Gas cut off valve of M14 is missing from Mini-14.
4) USGI M14s have chromed bores. Not an option for Mini-14.
5) M14 has butt trap for cleaning kit. This is made of steel in case you need to break something with the rifle's buttstock. Mini-14 buttplate has no trap and is plastic.
6) Roller on the M14's bolt. Mini-14 is missing this feature.

There are some differences between the 2 rifles.

This may be true, but it does not change the fact that the A-Team used Mini-14s, which means that anyone who does not like them is f***ing lame.

Game, set, match.

 

[Pilot]

This may be true, but it does not change the fact that the A-Team used Mini-14s, which means that anyone who does not like them is f***ing lame.

And true to form for a Mini-14, they couldn't hit anything with it either. Every one they ever came up against LIVED.

 

[woodfiend]

I think people give Mikhail Kalashnikov way too much credit. He didn't purposely design the AK 47 to have loose clearances. It was supposed to be cheap! Massive amounts of withering fire, simplicity, and ease of manufacture were the main factors of development. Russian doctrine called for a weapon of that nature. Hence the old Russian proverb: "The best is the enemy of good enough."

The design worked and it worked well. But, when I hear that Mikhail Kalashnikov purposely designed the AK with loose clearances, then I have to say that is BS. The man is full of himself.

That said, it is a good weapon, IF you know how to use it. You must understand its limitations. The same goes for a Mini 14.

 

[expvideo]

The design worked and it worked well. But, when I hear that Mikhail Kalashnikov purposely designed the AK with loose clearances, then I have to say that is BS. The man is full of himself.

He is, but I would say that he's justified in being that way. What have you accomplished that could even hold a candle to creating the most prolific rifle of the 20th century?

 

[Travis Bickle]

And true to form for a Mini-14, they couldn't hit anything with it either. Every one they ever came up against LIVED.

LOL! Touche.

 

[SHvar]

As far as magazines go, Ive had the same few for years. I bought some stainless mags back a few years after buying the mini-14 (I dont remember what year that was now) from a gunshow. These mags cost me about $12-$14 each and functioned flawlessly. The original mags I bought were clear plastic and junk, the stuff broke easy, sometimes did not lock the bolt open when empty, and had feed problems when dirty.
I will admit that the AK feels alot more substantial in your hands over the mini-14, and has more steel in the barrel to deal with heat.
The mini-14 is chambered for 5.56x45 according to Ruger although labeled .223 on the rifle, this is to make use of military ammo safely.
Keep in mind that years ago Ruger bought their barrels from another company that cold hammer forged them, at some time they invested in the equipment to make their own and have made big improvements.
My Ruger target rifle demonstrates this very well.
My 10/22 is accurate and never quits.

 

[notorious]

The AK is shrouded in so much myth and heresay that we'll never know the whole truth. Don't forget, a lot of what we know of its origin is also Communist propaganda made with the agenda to foster a certain thought toward them.

Mikhail in his later years self-aggrandized in interviews on the creation of the rifle, as he should, but that also leaves a lot of room for reasonable doubt as to the full veracity of his tales.

In the end, it is what it is, a ruggedly dependable rifle mass made for a military whose doctrine was based on "good enough" and "as long as it gets the job done". Russian weapons, if elegant and finely made, are purely creations of accident and not intentional, any similarities between Russian arms and finely made weapons are purely concidental and not meant to depict actual events and real persons.

 

[lionking]

OK so today I did a comparison.Based on the conclusion I got today,well take your pick in which you want a Mini or AK cause based on what I did today they are about the same in accuracy with stock iron sights,at least in my hands.I used a rest and shouldered the rifles.

Tried several ammo in each,with the Mini it was firing high so I zeroed it using Ferderal 55gr value pack ammo.Then when I tested the Mini with Winchester white box and Sellier&Bellot ammo,it shot low compared so much half the groups were off the replacement center target,go figuire.So I did 4 volleys with the Federal ammo in the Mini.

For the Romanian SAR1 AK I used Golden Bear,Barnaul and Fiocchi ammo.I got to say last time I tested ammo in the AK thr groups were wider and more spread than today.I think it has to do with me that then I hadn't fired a AK in a while and I felt more comfortable with it today.Today is the first time I fired the Mini in around 2 years so my comfort zone with it having been away from it for a while *might* have been a factor but I shot slow fire trying to take well aimed shots with both.

 

[CrankyOldGuy]

Which Mini? The 580's (not the old tooling design as tested by lionking, you can tell by the thin barrel and sights) are far more accurate and have been available for the last few years. My older mini, was definately not as accurate, unfortunate I sold it and can't do a comparison.

Rested my new 580 (20" barrel with factory flash supressor) mini shoots groups from 1.5-2.5" depending on ammunition with factory iron sights and about 2-3" high at 100 yards with the factory zero. That's pretty darn good for my old eyes.

I love the AK (have owned a few), but I've never come close to that 1-2.5 MOA with one. My son's AKS was close, but people tell me that was a fluke and most don't shoot that well. I can't say from experience so I won't comment on that.

 

[jhco]

I'll keep my AK, thank you very much. That is if you get the right AK

What would the right ak be/what would the wrong ak be?

 

[natescout]

buy a daewoo dr-200 , cheaper than an a mini or ak, probably out shot both by good inch ?

 

[lionking]

Having shot both today,in my opinion my older Mini and the AK style rifles both have too thick of a front sight.Overall the sights on my Mini are easier to aquire a line up on the target,the AK with a slightly thinner front sight would make for better line up on the rear sight.

Was kinda surprised that the Mini didn't do better,the first volley was horrible,in the past it seemed to do a little better than today but that might have been "that day".Then again today is the first time I did several volleys through it to come to some conclusion.Was really surprised how the other ammo brands change elevation impact.But,if I were to shoot it more often performance might improve on my part also.When you go to the range with different guns every time just about it doesn't exactly make you real good with one gun.

The Mini or AK,if you were to engage something at 100yds you would probably hit,the new style Mini may ideed be better accuracy wise,but I'm not going to drop $500 or $600 beans on one to find out.....

 

[CrankyOldGuy]

lionking,

I agree, I also didn't like the old sights on the mini. The new post and ghost ring is a bit better if you like ghost rings.

Unfortunately you had an old mini to test and I no longer have an AK to test against the new mini. My personal experience with the AK and older mini's does mirror your tests and I feel you did an fair test against a pre-580 mini and an AK.

I hope I didn't offend you with my earlier comments, I didn't mean to imply that you were biased or dishonest. You're testing does coincide with my own experience with both the AK and the pre 580-series mini-14s. 4+ MOA was standard for both.

All reliable information is good info, and your testing shows a reasonable and fair comparison with the early mini-14 vs an AK.

This is a good thread as many older mini's are now being sold as people purchase new ones. The first 3 #s in the SN will tell someone what series rifles they are purchasing.

Kindest Regards,
Cranky

 

[greenr18]

My dad would take the Mini-14, he loves them and told me just a few days ago at the gun store while we were looking at a rack with AKs, Mini-14s, AR15s, and other rifles "I love my Mini-14, still think it's the best of all." It all depends on who you are and what you're into. I'm guessing my dad likes Mini-14s because he knows and trusts the proven Garand style operation and it's basically a modernized (because it's .223, lighter, etc) M14 that could easily be used in modern combat. He's also fired the WASR10 and MAK90 I used to have and prefers the SKS over 'em probably because he's never really owned a rifle with a pistol grip and didn't grow up with anything like that. It could be a generation thing I don't know. I've had experience firing many different "assault" and battle rifles so far and I'd still trust an AK over anything else. They're accurate enough, very easy to take down and clean, I love 7.62 x39mm even if it's not the best cartridge out there, it's light enough and it's reliable and definitely proven. The AK though is a mixture of many different designs, including the M1 Garand and the Mini-14 is a derivative of the Garand seeing as how it works on a scaled down Garand action; they're both great rifles though. You can't really go wrong with either, though I can't say I'm a fan of .223, but again I personally would go with the AK.

 

[lionking]

No way to offend me about that,I'm just a little duh today about the differences I achieved with the AK verses last time.Last time the Fiocchi showed better potential yet today the Barnaul and GB ammo was tighter and more center compared to last time.Today I mentally felt better with the AK and really focused hard to try and use front sight focus with trigger and breath control so bad days vs good days so be it.As of today I guess I'll use Barnaul or BG ammo for normal range use and keep a reserve of Fiocchi for sometimes.But then again I tried the Banaul and GB ammo only once today.....

There is also the fact that I take different guns out constantly,which to get good with one you need to shoot that one gun often.Some guns are easier to shoot that others,obviously the AK and older Mini has it's limitations and you got to use it often to know it.For what they were made for accuracy wise I guess they do the job,scoped would probably do better but Im mainly into iron sight shooting and like to see what one can do stock as was made.

Until a couple years ago I was mainly a plinker,set up a empty BBQ tank or freon tank at 100yds and as long as I hit it and heard a ding...than cool.Alot different when you put it on paper,3inch difference on a tank at 100ds doesn't show like it does on a official size target.

And just a rant- bam bam bam bam bam bam!!! A guy using a shorty AR next to me putting out 30 rounds as fast as he can doesn't exactly make me able to focus on my shooting...got to a point that I just waited for him to stop.It was funny what was wrong with that picture,everY guy with a AK or AR today was bam bam bam! as fast as they could while I was a lonely dude taken slow aimed shots with a AK bahaha!!!!

 

[45B@cav]

Ok your range reports are interesting but if you put any mini against a 5.45ak I will guaranty different result. Those 74's can really shoot. I'm not a fan of the mini but i'm not a hater either. It a good ranch rifle but itIT IS NOT A COMBAT RIFLE.I don't mean to insult anyone sorry if I did.

 

[lionking]

As a matter of fact I used a SAR2 also today briefly but ran out of time.It was shooting way left,got it hitting center now and from what I was able to see based on one volley of firing while not spectacular accuracy it did seem to do better than both the Mini and 7.62mm AK.The SAR2 in 5.45mm report will be coming soon.....

 

[greenr18]

Correct me if I'm wrong but was not the Mini-14 designed with a police market in mind? Many police departments have adopted the Mini-14 and it has had a limited military market, it definitely is an adequate combat weapon.

 

[notorious]

It was definitely not intended for military use, but as for police specific, I am not too sure. The AC-556K may be the police variant but the regular rifle was probably intended as a truck rifle for ranchers, hence the improved "ranch rifle" versions.

We have Ruger Mini-14 stainless all weather carbines and they are fine for our purposes as we patrol a congested inner city area.

 

[KBintheSLC]

AK's are great if you want an ugly rifle that will shoot 12" groups.

I made it all the way to post #7 before the brainless and ignorant comments started up.

Weeee.

Back on topic...
I have both, and wouldn't hesitate to use either in battle. However, I wouldn't mind trading the Mini-14 in for a Mini-30...... Cheaper ammo and a consolidated stockpile.

 

[30mag]

What?
Neither one is available in .30-06?
...
Well, I guess I'm not interested.

 

[expvideo]

Correct me if I'm wrong but was not the Mini-14 designed with a police market in mind? Many police departments have adopted the Mini-14 and it has had a limited military market, it definitely is an adequate combat weapon.

I think you are confusing "combat weapon" to be the same thing as "patrol weapon". They are different. A police officer will rarely ever need more than 1-2 magazines worth of ammunition in a fire fight. A soldier can use hundreds of rounds in combat.

Generally a patrol weapon is semi-automatic, while a combat weapon is generally select-fire.

A combat rifle is a different beast entirely from a patrol rifle. The mini-14 is marketted as a patrol rifle. The AK is a combat rifle. There is a difference.