Father Knows Best
Member
It ain't the gun that's the problem....
AK-47 vs AR-15 in a Hurricane Situation
- Thread starter iiibdsiil
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It ain't the gun that's the problem....
ny32182
Member
I'd feel just fine with either my LMT carbine or VEPR K. Slight edge to the AR right now, just because that is what has a 3 point sling on it at the moment.
I don't see any point to having a 7.62x51 in a situation where you are going to be defensive, and likely on the move. 5.56 and x39 would both be plenty effective at several times the range at which you might be shooting at anything at all as you move out of the city.
I don't see any point to having a 7.62x51 in a situation where you are going to be defensive, and likely on the move. 5.56 and x39 would both be plenty effective at several times the range at which you might be shooting at anything at all as you move out of the city.
KaceCoyote
Member
So...let me get this straight.
The AR-15 is more reliable than the AK-47?
The AR-15 is more reliable than the AK-47?
If your AK rusts shut you can use your foot to kick the bolt free... and likely shoot it some more.
AK's have chromed bores.
Salt water is hard on everything.
I don't own an AR.
AK's have chromed bores.
Salt water is hard on everything.
I don't own an AR.
Cpl Punishment
Member
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2005
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- 118
Master Blaster said:
Just out of curiosity, I figure you mean "M4 configuration" as M4s weren't around when the list of transferrable full auto weapons was finalized in what, 1986?
That being said, will the milled AK with sight welded on be as expensive as the M4 including the $200 tax stamp from the ATF for the 14.5" barrel?
Or do you just mean an A3 16" carbine with a collapsable stock?
KaceCoyote
Member
Why would you weld anything onto an AK, milled or otherwise?
Going back to initial intent of thread, I'd choose neither. I have a Marlin 336. I'm sure most here do. A good, rugged, all-purpose rifle with find-anywhere ammo. Or a Winchester. Same difference. I suppose if I were issued an M-16 or AK, I'd live with either until I could do better. But I wouldn't pay good (or bad) money for either one. Folks having been in harm's way (on our side) seem to admire the M14. I haven't seen any praise for the M16. I have my suspicions that LEO's in the States probably like the M-16 because they can play Army. I could be wrong, but I don't very much care. I doubt that I would be outgunned with the 30-30.
mustanger98
Member
Right on.
I've observed something very much like that.
Could be, but I don't think so. People routinely misunderestimate .30-30, but get shot with one and you're just as shot as you'd be with anything else.
I think we lost focus here.. Here's the SITREP. Your in the U.S., your flooded in your home, there is help all around your position. Grab your AR-15 (which your not going to use) and swim, wade, walk to dry land. Find friends, shelter, and food. Get a beer and call it a night.
If your in Russia, Vietnam, Iraq.. There is help all around your position. Grab your AK (which your not going to use).. Swim, Wade, Walk to temperate land. Find shelter, food, then friends. Get a shot of votka and call it a night.
But if the Sh*t really hits the fan.... You'll find more 5.56 or 223 ammo in the U.S. on LEO's and Armed Forces all ready to go in mags for yah, Because thats what they will be using. And 7.62x39 in Russia. So depending where I'm at would help me make a choice!
Willyboi
-Better to be Judged by 12 than Carried by 6-
If your in Russia, Vietnam, Iraq.. There is help all around your position. Grab your AK (which your not going to use).. Swim, Wade, Walk to temperate land. Find shelter, food, then friends. Get a shot of votka and call it a night.
But if the Sh*t really hits the fan.... You'll find more 5.56 or 223 ammo in the U.S. on LEO's and Armed Forces all ready to go in mags for yah, Because thats what they will be using. And 7.62x39 in Russia. So depending where I'm at would help me make a choice!
Willyboi
-Better to be Judged by 12 than Carried by 6-
mustanger98
Member
I always figured if I had to use the enemy's ammo, I'd have his weapon too.
Crosshair
Member
Besides every Ak I have ever shot does 15" 5 shot groups at 100 yards.
My M1 Garand shot 25' (Yes 25 feet
) groups at 100 yards. Took it back where I got it and had a new barrel put on it. It's a dream now.
My M1 Garand shot 25' (Yes 25 feet
) groups at 100 yards. Took it back where I got it and had a new barrel put on it. It's a dream now. Willyboi,
First I wouldn't want to RELY on kindly or deceased LEO's or NG troops for my ammo re-stocking. Secondly, there could be the possibility of several major incidents happening all at the same time. This will delay your rescuers, thus putting that beer or shot of Vodka a bit farther into your future than initally planned.
Times like that call for an AK.
Cheers!
First I wouldn't want to RELY on kindly or deceased LEO's or NG troops for my ammo re-stocking. Secondly, there could be the possibility of several major incidents happening all at the same time. This will delay your rescuers, thus putting that beer or shot of Vodka a bit farther into your future than initally planned.
Times like that call for an AK.
Cheers!
Kurt..
I've seen how you country boy's shoot.. I would expect there to be some state and federal ammo around!! Not everyone out there loves what we do. I don't belame yah, I've seen how the Army and Marines are treating people there. I had a great southern cooked meal 2 days ago from a Catholic School in Miss. The Army guys didnt even thank them, but us Navy guys always thank true Americans. I could have had an MRE, but they wanted to share there food and hospitality...Thats the AMERICA I fight for!!!!! But as far as me giving yah ammo... Good luck on that one!!!
Willyboi
-Better to be Judged by 12 than Carried by 6-
I've seen how you country boy's shoot.. I would expect there to be some state and federal ammo around!!
Not everyone out there loves what we do. I don't belame yah, I've seen how the Army and Marines are treating people there. I had a great southern cooked meal 2 days ago from a Catholic School in Miss. The Army guys didnt even thank them, but us Navy guys always thank true Americans. I could have had an MRE, but they wanted to share there food and hospitality...Thats the AMERICA I fight for!!!!! But as far as me giving yah ammo... Good luck on that one!!!Willyboi
-Better to be Judged by 12 than Carried by 6-
artherd
member
Whichever one you have ammo for.
Duh.
Duh.
Domino
Member
LOL, are you taking english lessons from President Bush?
I had to point that one out, misunderstimated is not a word its underestimated. The reason I made the comment about President Bush is because there is a book about him called "Misunderstimated" and the title is there because he apparently used it in a speech.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060723831/102-0307220-4420169?v=glance
I thought the title was witty and I am not a Bush hater by any means. Sorry to get off topic.
chopinbloc
Member
the dime drill is where you take up a good prone unsupported firing position with a rifle you have verified clear. then you have a buddy balance a dime on the barrel. you pick a spot on the wall to "shoot" and you dry fire. if the dime falls off, you fail. if it stays in place, you pass. after practice you should be able to do it without the dime even wobbling a little bit. mainly just teaches trigger control but you can practice sight picture and breath control as well. if you can shoot without dropping the dime you should be able to hit a man out to at least 200m.
yeah, fine great. before you extol the virtues of a weapon for "combat" use, walk ten miles with it. just ten miles. just the weapon and one mag. then tell me how great it is to lug around a very accurate, powerful halfu ton of pig iron. fact is alot of americans can't walk ten miles with a piece of paper let alone an m14. i can tell you that after about five miles an empty m16 starts to feel like a ma deuce. also, if you haven't heard any praise for the m16 you haven't been listening. so let me say it again: the m16 is an accurate, reliable weapon with a proven combat track record. the reports you hear of reliability issues come mainly from poorly trained remfs. if an m16 malfunctions it is probably due to a bad magazine or a poorly (if at all) maintained weapon.
look here, folks. the ak you buy in the states is not the same as the ones we find over seas. the fact is you gets what you pay for. the average ak in america will need a new fire control group and rear sight at a minimum. if you don't want to keep it covered in a half inch thick coat of vaseline, you'll probably want a better finish on it as well. the ar15 comes ready to go out of the box from any reputable manufacturer. both require regular maintanence but it is my personal opinion that an ar is more combat ready from the factory than an ak.
bottom line: if you can't afford an ar, an ak will do you just fine and the most important thing is to shoot what you have regularly and make sure you are equipped with plenty of mags and ammo. see, both weapon systems are stout. both have idiosyncracies. both could fail you at a very bad moment. but neither is LIKELY to fail you as long as you take care of your tools.
Sam Cade
Member
If things got ugly I would grab either this VeprIIK in 7.62x39 or my MAADI ARM.
The KOBRA is a fantastic unit btw.
Actually, some pretty much are. The SARs are made exactly like the romanian AIM, on the same dies, they just never get the third hole drilled, and the rail doesnt have a cut for the auto sear. Heres a pic of the stampings for the auto sear pin hole.
The romanians arent exactly the pinnacle of AK production, but its still basically a euro AKM receiver.
The bulgaria arsenal SLR line should be another very close one. Some (all?) Egyptian maadis are made on russian machinery. Etc.
The FCGs are replaced here for legal reasons alone, but if you have problems you can replace them for about $30 and have a very good FCG.
I dont know what you mean about rear sights, everything over here is probably military. Yeah, they suck, but its a problem common to all AKs, not just ones in the US.
Yep, i love mine. Takes AA batteries. It blocks the irons, but if it craps out i can get it off the rifle in about a second and a half. Just pull the lever and let it drop off.
Master Blaster
Member
Yes, you're correct. The M-16 is much lighter. The Garand even heavier. Anyone else note the similarity to CCW discussions? It's also only one member in a series of weapons systems employed in concert during combat. And, yes, it is reliable. Not much contention now. There are "rumors" of its lack of power, however. For a rifle squad, everyone firing and hitting, that problem, if true, is mitigated. The military selected and/or adopted the weapon to meet requirements it thought important. You might note that I'm not advocating the M14 (or M21) as a combat weapon. I leave that to those who are in combat. My choice is a lever action--made easier though knowledge gained while owning one. Optimum? No, but what is? Nor do I intend to engage in "combat", a la infantry squad, in some urban area here in the States. I leave that to others so inclined. Those who see the M16 (or AK) as a first choice for carry during periods of civil unrest, more power to you. Not my intent to disuade you. I have my own ideas (as do you) about selection criteria to meet likely situations; many don't match those of the military. Thus, no surprise to me that I don't pick a military weapon. I have no idea what the police are thinking when they select equipment--they merely remain an object of idle curiosity as they bounce from one fad to the next.
Master Blaster
Member
So thats a 5" 6 shot group at 50 yards, yep thats how all my Ak based guns shoot 12-14" 5 shot groups at 100 yards. Thanks for confirming it. I was posting targets in response to Father Knows bests assertion that I can't shoot a rifle.
But thanks anyway, BTW I know you have posted that target before.
I will have to photograph the test target that came with my SAR-1 it shows similar accuracy.
Make my SHTF rifle an AR thanks, I need to be able to reliably hit a target.
But thanks anyway, BTW I know you have posted that target before.
I will have to photograph the test target that came with my SAR-1 it shows similar accuracy.
Make my SHTF rifle an AR thanks, I need to be able to reliably hit a target.
ny32182
Member
I think its pretty obvious that a flyer like that is the ammo or the shooter, and not the gun.
My VEPR does one ragged hole at 50 yards, especially with non-Wolf ammo. But honestly, even if Wolf puts out a bullet that is going to fly even 3" at 100 yards, I don't care, in this particular application.
12-14" at 100 yards?... even the most poorly constructed communist slave labor POS will shoot groups half that size.
My VEPR does one ragged hole at 50 yards, especially with non-Wolf ammo. But honestly, even if Wolf puts out a bullet that is going to fly even 3" at 100 yards, I don't care, in this particular application.
12-14" at 100 yards?... even the most poorly constructed communist slave labor POS will shoot groups half that size.
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