AK-47s: Spray & Pray Going Away

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rc135

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"SPRAY AND PRAY" IS GOING AWAY (www.StrategyPage.com) November 30, 2007: The AK-47, on full automatic, is increasingly being seen as a liability by its many users. Originally designed to allow poorly trained troops to deliver automatic fire, the AK-47 10-pound (loaded with a 30 round magazine) AK-47 didn't have to be cleaned frequently, and could still fire even if covered with mud, sand or any other crud commonly encountered on the battlefield. But the AK-47 has flaws. The same design that makes it relatively jam proof also delivers relatively poor accuracy. The shabby sights on the AK don't help much either. The design also trades reliability for the ability to quickly change magazines, or even operate the safety. But the main reason over 50 million AK-47s were built was because it did what it was designed to do very well. The AK-47 was the ultimate "spray and pray" weapon.

Equipping infantry with assault rifles began during World War I. In doing that, the Germans also took the lead in developing submachine guns, like the MP-18, a weapon that would eventually evolve into the modern ‘assault rifle.’ By the end of WWI, about 30,000 MP-18s were in use. They demonstrated the devastating effect of automatic weapons in the hands of infantry. The MP-18 fired the standard 9mm pistol round and used a 32-round drum magazine that fired 6-7 bullets/second. The basic need was for a compact weapon that could quickly fire a lot of bullets. This gave the MP-18 user a big edge in combat. The Germans kept developing this type of weapon and by WWII they had the MP-38 and MP-40. The short range (50-100 meters) of the 9mm pistol round prevented the Germans from attempting to rearm all their infantry with this weapon, who often had to hits targets farther away.

It wasn't until they saw the Russians used similar weapons on a mass scale during WWII that the Germans realized that the short range of the 9mm pistol round was not as great a shortcoming as they thought. The Russians understood that, for an attack, arming all the troops with submachine guns gave you so much firepower that the enemy had a hard time shooting back at your attacking troops. This was particularly useful in urban or trench warfare, where there were a lot of small scale (a dozen or fewer attacking troops) operations at short ranges. Russia produced over five million of their eight-pound PPSh submachine guns. They used either a 35-lb. box magazine or a four-lb. drum holding 71 rounds. That was 7-8 seconds worth of firing. The bullet used was a 7.62mm pistol round that moved at only about 1,600 fps. Catch one of these in the head, and you were dead. Anywhere else, and you would probably live. But with so many of these bullets flying around, multiple hits were more likely.

One thing the 7.62/25 PPSh round didn't have was penetration. You needed that in urban areas to fire through doors, floors and walls. The Germans overcame this by developing the StG-44 in 1943, which used a more powerful, 7.92mm, bullet. This weapon looks a lot like the Russian AK-47, and heavily influenced Kalashnikov’s design of the AK-47. The StG-44, like the AK-47, used a shorter (than the standards rifle), and about 20% lighter, bullet that could still fire through walls and doors. The Russians combined the best features of the StG-44 and PPSh to produce the AK-47 after WWII. It was cheap, rugged, used a larger, more powerful bullet, and enabled green troops to generate a lot of firepower on the battlefield.

But war has changed. Better trained troops, with more accurate weapons (like the M-4/M-16) are more likely to prevail. Even the Russians have long since abandoned the AK-47 for weapons similar to the M-16. But all those AK-47s out there still appeal to the ill-trained, impoverished and trigger happy young men eager to make their point with a hail of bullets.


“If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.” -- Sir Isaac Newton

“They were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Naturally, they became heroes.” -- Princess Leia Organa

“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side.” -- Han Solo

“War is evil, but it is often the lesser evil.” -- George Orwell

“If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it’s free.” -- P.J. O’Rourke
 
Even the Russians have long since abandoned the AK-47 for weapons similar to the M-16.

Thanks for the good laugh. I was not aware the the Nikonov or AK-74 derivatives were direct impingement jam-o-matics.

-T
 
In reality, the Russians have switched to a round more similar to the AR15's in the 5.45 (AK-74).

The Iraqis and Afghanis are getting M16's though... in place of their AK's.
 
RMT, Yep just like how Americans want Italian cars......... Domestic goods tend to become mundane and folks wish for imported a lil more exotic flavor..... Bad part is in 5 years or less we are going to have to send troops back over there to take away those M16s! Well at least alot fewer of em will be functional as the locals try to maintain em in the same manner they are accustomed to maintaining their AKs............ none....... so at least our guys will only be dodging 5.56 slugs from 30,000 or less of the 60,000 being sent over...... if ya figure of those 30,000 at least half will be traded or sold to Al-Qaeda so they'll be down to 15,000 still functioning M16s those will be in the hands of children under 12 so that poses the issue of tiny target acquisition syndrome while our guys attempt to return fire against the child soldiers fireing on them....... ahhh hell we'll just call a couple copters in on their position however those rifles will most likally be destroyed in the hail of 7.62 slugs from the copter mounted mini guns so............ basically in 5 years or less we'll be right back faceing fire from AKs just like always.....
 
My own opinion is that AK's are better than AR's if you're a caveman and AR's are better than AK's if you're an average soldier, but if you really take the time to master them you can be extremely effective with either one.
 
Equipping infantry with assault rifles began during World War I
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this wonderful bit of history. Probably had a typo in his notes.
 
Factual errors and downright disinformation seem to be trademarks of Strategy Page. Whoever they pay to write their little article-ettes tend to do poor research (if any), and usually are awkward enough writers that even when they are making a correct point it requires some deciphering.
 
It's pretty bad. The PPSH used a "35-lb. box magazine"?! Really...
 
This weapon looks a lot like the Russian AK-47, and heavily influenced Kalashnikov’s design of the AK-47


This is a total load of Bravo Sierra. While the StG44 and the AK-47 bear some superficial resemblance, the two are very different weapons. It has been established that Mikhail Kalashnikov didn't even see a StG44 until after he had already drafted the initial plans for the AK. He was working on the AK as early as 1943 after being wounded at Bryansk.

Plus, 7.62x25TT had rather good penetration, at least for a pistol cartridge. Plus I like how he describes it as traveling at 'only 1600 fps'...which unless I'm mistaken is pretty fast for a pistol round.

I'm with HorseSoldier on this one...this article is total crap.
 
Bad part is in 5 years or less we are going to have to send troops back over there to take away those M16s!

I doubt we ever leave Iraq. We have some rather large "permanent" type of bases over there...

It will likely be similar to our presences in Korea or Germany...

Plus, we'll be spending plenty of time in the mid-east dealing with other countries as well...

Put me in the same camp as HorseSoldier and Acheron about the article though.
 
Acheron it's sometimes difficult to believe anything Soviets said. The society seemed to sort of push forward liars and men afraid to speak the truth.

The Stg. 44 can also be known as the MP.43, 1943. Which means Kal could easily have seen one and been inspired by it. Trials in 1942, and the Soviets had the most expansive and invasive intelligence network the world had ever seen from the 1920's on.. Safest to say we don't know for sure.
And here is one researcher's story: http://world.guns.ru/assault/as01-e.htm
Circa 1944 he was assigned to the Izhevsk Machinebuilding Plant (IZHMASH), where in 1944 he developed a semi-automatic, gas-operated carbine. Starting with this design, during 1945 and 1946 he developed an assault rifle that he submitted for official Soviet Army trials in 1946. During the 1946 and early 1947 he redesigned his initial rifle and submitted it to the second trials, held in 1947.

But look at the design, the layout. It was the first Russian rifle that stepped away from their full-wooden-stock design. The Germans reduced OAL on a rifle by mounting a pistol grip directly under the receiver, and a stock behind it, and one really should give the evil ****ers credit. Not sure which country did it first in SMGs.

Gifted and Dstorm, you are both incorrect. The Federov was a WW1-esque select-fire rifle capable of 300m engagements, using an intermediate-power cartridge. Basically.


http://world.guns.ru/assault/as00-e.htm


edit: found a pic that may be of value as circumstantial evidence:
image17_small.jpg
 
lucky,

"Gifted, the entire article is one continuous error, trying to focus on any single line is pointless"


was a sarcastic comment regarding the artical in general, I gave up after the part about the Russians going towards an M-16 type rifle uhhhhhh yea an AK rechambered to a 5.45x39 sure does have more in common with an M16....... in case ya can't tell, that is another sarcastic comment
 
Might I also point out that the 1910-era Federov had a vertical forward grip as well.

fedorov_sm.jpg
 
The Italians were the first with a sub-machine gun, the Villar-Perosa. It was an anti-aircraft machine gun used on bi-planes, but also in paired format (two side-by-side) for "walking assault." It didn't have the traditional sub-gun appearance, looking more like a light-machine gun, but it was none-the-less relatively effective and, more to the point, the first.

Ash
 
And all this time I thought the StG 44 was designed to give the infantryman the firepower of a machine pistol with an effective battlefield range of 400 meters.

7.62X25 at 1600fps with steel core bullets WILL go through walls, doors, ice boxes and people.
One big complaint is the stuff overpenetrates, it just doesn't have a lot of terminal effect as it goes sailing through stuff.

We are giving M16s because somebody threw a big waa waa that the Russians were getting rich supplying weapons to our allies and shouldn't American Companies be getting that money instead.

My guess is that they will trade the M16s to Venezuela for some of those spiffy new Russian blasters they just received.
 
But the AK-47 has flaws.

What are flaws to one person, are just a perference to another.

The same design that makes it relatively jam proof also delivers relatively poor accuracy.

There is the presumption that somehow platform accuracy means more "hits". Ain't so, they don't train the troops to a high enough level of marksmanship to make use of target grade rifles.

I will say that my WASR-10 is inferior in accuracy to the rifles I have shot: PTR-91, FN-FAL, rack grade Garands, rack grade M1a's, and stock AR15's. I do not know whether it is inherent in the design, or just due to sloppy manufacturing.

But I would rather have a weapon that went bang each and every time to a fincky target grade platform.

"The shabby sights on the AK don't help much either."

As I recall, I have a rear sight leaf and a front post. Simple, durable. And so have most military rifles that I have seen. There are exceptions. But they work, if you know to align the post in the middle of the notch.

As to “spray and pray” going way, not going to happen. Peacetime cost cutting reduced training budgets to nothing. We went into this war with troops who did not know how to clear jams from their rifles (Private Jessica), midway through this war, the military is determined to get everyone familiar with their weapons, but we are not taking about High Master marksmanship skill levels. And when the war is over, the cost cutters will trim all the dollars from the training budgets, and we will be back to troops who can throw rocks more accurately than they can shoot.
 
The Stg. 44 can also be known as the MP.43, 1943. Which means Kal could easily have seen one and been inspired by it

Oh there's no doubt that the external design of the AK was heavily influenced by the StG44/MP43. Kalashnikov borrowed the placement of controls, stock, and magazine from that rifle, and everyone else borrowed from him. But what I was pointing out was that the article implied that the two guns are similar in all respects, which is untrue. The internal workings of the two rifles are very different and while the external apperance of the AK was influenced by the success of the StG44, it is nonetheless the result of a independent line of R&D, headed by Kalashnikov at IZHMASH.

Take a look at the Czechoslovakian Vz-58. Externally it resembles an AK, but internally it is much closer to a StG44, in fact the Vz-58 was originally chambered in 7.92x33mm Kurzpatrone (in development stages) before political pressure forced a switch to 7.62x39mm M43. It resembles an AK because that layout worked well for the Czech, however they chose a different operating system because they had more experience with it (from StG44s captured in the fight to free Czechoslovakia).
 
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I was under the impression the Czech VZ-58 was chambered for the Check 7.62x45 round, as that was what was already the adopted combat round for the Czech military. Seems very, very odd they would, while already possessing an intermediate round and rifle chambered for it, change yet again to another, non-Soviet non-Czech round for their newest rifle. As the story goes, the VZ-58 was originally chambered for the 7.62x45, but then changed it to 7.62x39 and also came out with the VZ-52/57

Ash
 
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