AK-47s: Spray & Pray Going Away

[slzy]

well,federov himself says an insignificant number of his rifles were issued in ww1,but,significantly they did get issued.

 

[BobbyQuickdraw]

I love how everything is an "AK-47" or at best "AK-47 type" rifle. People in the media, and apparently at this site, don't seem to know that the AK-47 is fairly specific in its specifications, where as just because a gun looks similar to the AK-47 in no way means that it is actually an AK-47.

To them the term AK-47 can actually mean:
AKM
AK-74
AKS
AK-101
AK-103
AK-104
AK-107
AK-108
SKS
AK-74u

Any of these guys, because of their look, color scheme, or magazine type, is often called an "AK-47" and that bothers me.

And of course, the AK-47, according to these sites and the media, is the primary issued weapon to the Russians, Chinese, and many other nations, when that usually isn't the case.

 

[mgregg85]

7.62x25mm not enough penetration? Huh?!? They showed that round to be able to penetrate the current PASGT helmet our troops wear on box o'truth.

 

[ROMAK IV]

The reported inaccuracy of the AK-47 is a bit over emphasized, I think, and much of it it due to the poorly trained soldiers and pooly maintained weapons. After all, an Air Force Intelligence Officer was shot by a Soviet Guard at 300 meters in the 80's. Maybe that was an AK-74, I don't know.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

The reported inaccuracy of the AK-47 is a bit over emphasized

I agree, as is the "AR15's are unreliable" stuff too, much of it is exaggerated so that people that hate the other platform can make a point...

In my experience, they can vary. Ammo and brand/make plays a part at times too.

AR15's are not "jam-o-matics" any more than an AK cannot hit the broad side of a barn.

 

[Logan5]

It's borderline gibberish, worse than most spam email I get. It dosen't even get to the phase where I consider factual accuracy (but it dosen't have that either!)

And anyone who confuses 35 pounds with 35 rounds of ammo needs to receive a series of firm, vigorous, open palmed slaps to their fool mouth until that behavior changes. Unless they're selling the ammo, in which case, PM me.

 

[Lucky]

Ahh but Acheron perhaps you misread, and saw what people usually write but not what the author did write:

This weapon looks a lot like the Russian AK-47, and heavily influenced Kalashnikov’s design of the AK-47. The StG-44, like the AK-47, used a shorter (than the standards rifle), and about 20% lighter, bullet that could still fire through walls and doors.

 

[Newton]

What soldiers demand more than anything else is that a rifle goes BANG when they pull the trigger. In that regard the AK platform wins every time.

I wonder how long those M16s in Afghanistan will last compared to their old AKs, not so long I would imagine.

Also, don't take Strategy Page too seriously, their OpEds are notoriously silly.

Just my 2c.

 

[LeibstandarteAdH]

I was under the impression the Czech VZ-58 was chambered for the Check 7.62x45 round, as that was what was already the adopted combat round for the Czech military. Seems very, very odd they would, while already possessing an intermediate round and rifle chambered for it, change yet again to another, non-Soviet non-Czech round for their newest rifle. As the story goes, the VZ-58 was originally chambered for the 7.62x45, but then changed it to 7.62x39 and also came out with the VZ-52/57

Well, to keep it short, Czech historians, and present day CZ management report that the Vz. 58 was in early prototype stage, 7.92x33 and a version in 7.62x45 never existed. An american writer in the 60's or 70's (in the same page as describing the development and changing of the Vz 52 from 7.62x45 to the 7.62x39) said that the prototype versions of the Vz. 58 were in 7.62x45.

Personally the Vz. 58 has wayyy too much in common with the StG-44 in terms of its early development to be chance, and 7.92x33 was very familar to the designers (obviously) and plentiful in the area. That being said the two guns (the Vz 58 and Vz 52) were designed by completely diffrent teams. The development of the 7.62x45 Vz 52 carbine and LMG were vere very seperate from the 58, and could easily explain the existance of prototype forms of the two weapons in diffrent calibers. And on top of that, the COAL on the 7.62x45 just does not fit the action of the Vz. 58, while it would have been as simple as a barrel change to convert from the 7.92x33 to its current 7.62x39.

Im not saying that a prototype Vz. 58 with longer acton and streached recievor and magazines for 7.62x45 didnt ever exist, but i seriously doubt that there were versions in all three calibers, and i trust the Czechs own liteature on the subject more than a writer in america on this side of the iron curtain in the 1970's

 

[Dave Markowitz]

It's pretty bad. The PPSH used a "35-lb. box magazine"?! Really...

AAMOF, yes it did. However, the 71 round drum magazine was more common.

 

[Geronimo45]

I wonder how long those M16s in Afghanistan will last compared to their old AKs, not so long I would imagine.

That may be the plan. M-16s are primarily an American weapon, primarily made in America. The Iraqis will be living off of our logistical mammaries or not at all. We supply ammunition and spare parts. If the Iraqis decide to go to the opposition, they'll have to switch to another gun - and the familiarity they have with the AR won't help them much with the AK. A control ploy more than giving the Iraqis a 'better weapon', IMO.

 

[Gifted]

Except that there's far too many AKs over there. And since he was talking about A-stan, I'll add that there're people over there that can turn a hunk of steel into an M-16(or AK-47 for that matter) with a few files and a hammer. Ammo is much the same.

 

[RedLion]

What!?!?
A-stan i getting M-16s!?!?!

I thought we were giving them ak-47s same with the iraqis too.
i haven't heard definative proof but i figured since anybody over there whos 12 years old or older can dissasemble and reassemble and reload them blindfolded thats what we should give them.

could someone fill me in please?

 

[HorseSoldier]

I thought we were giving them ak-47s same with the iraqis too.

We're giving the Iraqis M16s also these days, after paying for them to get new AKs and ammo for same for a couple years.

could someone fill me in please?

There's assorted pluses for us to switch them over to 5.56mm/M16. First, they're working off our logistical base, so it's easier for us to give them ammo and weapons that our usual production supports, rather than having to buy overseas for them.

Second, we've farmed a lot of the FID missions out to non-SF units to free the ODAs up for Combat FID and other SOF missions, and the Army and USMC is full of guys who know an M16/M4 backwards and forwards, while non-SOF guys who are competent to train people on the AK mostly have to mostly be specially trained to do so.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I was under the impression the Czech VZ-58 was chambered for the Check 7.62x45 round, as that was what was already the adopted combat round for the Czech military. Seems very, very odd they would, while already possessing an intermediate round and rifle chambered for it, change yet again to another, non-Soviet non-Czech round for their newest rifle. As the story goes, the VZ-58 was originally chambered for the 7.62x45, but then changed it to 7.62x39 and also came out with the VZ-52/57

The VZ-52 came first, chambered for the 7.62x45mm. Then the VZ-57, which was nothing more than the 52 rechambered for the M43 cartridge. The 58 has virtually nothing in common with the 52/57 and was always chambered for the M43.

It is, however, interesting how the Czech rifles had such similar outward appearences to the Soviet rifle, but were always completely different internally. The 52/57 have a profile and dimensions very similar to the Simonov.